unenforceable loan

[newward]

here's hoping... I am also getting in touch with some solicitors as well.

[newward]

Had a positive response from a solicitor, need to call them tomorrow to discuss in more detail. I had my default notice from Natwest today - ie we will default you from 28 days of this letter. Obviously some parts of it, are complete rubbish- ie we will pursue this matter through court etc, ermmmm you can't?!!! Will draft a strongly worded letter to them tomorrow, and copy in the FOS ( for what its worth )! they want to default me on my overdraft as well, but I may come to some arrangement with them there to pay it back next month, when I receive my redundancy money. And on that note, I am getting ready for a big interview!!! Natwest now to the back of my mind, because I have come onto here, to let go some of the stress

[davey77]

"We will default you unless you pay up" eh. Scare tactics and not a DN. That's ok.

 

If you write don't mention a Solicitors (possible) involvement. Just let that come out of the blue for them (if that happens.)

Decide if to write or not depending on the outcome of tomorrows call maybe anyway.

 

Nice that you are getting some progress then. Good luck with the interview.

[indebtuptomyeyes]

Hello to all i have a Natwest loan and have sent them the CCA letter and this was there response. The end of the letter must mean they are going to send the boys round to collect their money LOL

 

[JonCris]

Yeah they can 'ask' until the cows come home........ but if they ask to often they may fall foul of the law of harassment........... & for good measure the OFT

[Last of the Mohicans]

Hello to all i have a Natwest loan and have sent them the CCA letter and this was there response. The end of the letter must mean they are going to send the boys round to collect their money LOL

 

 

 

Hehe how do they know it's been "mis-filed" if they couldnt find it?

[Marder]

I have a loan, which is unenforceable. I did a Subject Access Request for my CCA, and NatWest replied firstly with just a list of payments due to be made for the rest of the loan, the amount I took out, the date. But, NO APR, NO PPI amounts etc. I wrote back to say that this was unacceptable, and that I wish to see a signed copy of my credit agreement, with all of these details. They then write back to tell me that they have "misfiled and cannot locate my credit agreement". I write back, using templates provided on this website, and some others, informing them that I am refusing to pay this loan anymore,I want a full refund of any amounts paid to date and to return my account back to zero.

 

I receive a letter from them on xmas eve?!, to inform me that under s.77 (4) of CCA, that they would be unable to take steps to recover the debt via court, they would register me as a default with the credit reference agencies. I have written back to explain that they would be in contravention of consumer credit act, and data protection laws etc etc. Matter now raised to FOS - from what I see, hear, they take ages... I spoke to the local CAB near my work in the city of London, and they seem very interested in my case, and agree with all steps that I have taken. Anyone else at this stage, or been past this stage and won ? thx very much.

 

Hi,

 

I have a Barclaycard account and they are unable to provide me with s signed copy of a alleged agreement. I would be greatful if you could point out the templates that you used from this site.

 

Many thanks

[indebtuptomyeyes]

Hehe how do they know it's been "mis-filed" if they couldnt find it?

 

 

my thoughts aswell. I bet they find it on the day of court.

[citizenB]

Hi,

 

I have a Barclaycard account and they are unable to provide me with s signed copy of a alleged agreement. I would be greatful if you could point out the templates that you used from this site.

 

Many thanks

 

Exactly what templates are you looking for Marder ?. It might be a good idea if you were to start your own thread that way people can advise you properly and you wont get lost in an established thread.

[Biggles9051]

Hi Marder,

 

I personally didn't use any templates from this site because I had started my action agaisnt NWest before I stumbled across it. There are many available and judging by the feedback it seems that they are very good. I am still fighting a losing battle (according to NW at least). All I can do is wish you the very best....

[newward]

A quick update. Natwest sent me their final response letter, in which they refer me to the ombudsman. They refer me to a letter they sent me back in December, which they state as a true copy - the doc is on earlier post, but essentially doesn't contain, APR rate, PPI breakdown , no signature, nor prescribed terms, but purely a "statement of financial information"?? I'd be interested on peoples thoughts here, on what a true copy is , and I believe because the loan was taken out Apr'06, Natwest have not in fact met their obligations, as this was for the change in legislation in 2007.

 

One positive point I guess.. is that Natwest have agreed not to progress with default action - given that this case is now with the FOS. I gave Natwest my case officers name and case reference at the FOS. They say they wont pursue the case, until the FOS has ruled etc ?

[davey77]

hmm Creditors refer you to the Ombudsman with the certain knowledge that any complaint regarding a credit agreement will be trashed.

 

The 'true copy' aspect isn't really the main issue. Natwest need an original document to enforce in Court and have admitted they don't have it. Probably, many would say, in supplying you with T&Cs or a blank agreement they have complied anyway.

 

It doesn't matter if Natwest sent you an onion with the amount, and your name, burnt on the outside with a kebab fork, the FOS would most likely say that payments towards the debt in the past are confirmation of your liability.

 

That's good Natwest have called a halt until the FOS decision. But now is the important point that you must try to get this sorted before the FOS adjudicate which, i guarantee, will not only be unfavourable to you, but which could prove negative overall in any future action you take on yourself. (they will back the Creditors stance in the process. Not a legally binding decision of course but annoying and frustrating all the same.)

 

April 07 is the cut off point. Anything that doesn't contain the debtors signature and the Prescribed Terms before then is Irredeemably Unenforceable. After that it's up to a Judge and a good argument.

 

Any further progress on the Solicitor?

[newward]

Hey Davey.. well I spoke a solicitor. Not eligible for legal aid as such..but they said they are willing to look at it for me, but they wanted £500 on deposit from me, but they couldn't give me an idea if i'd be successful or not..they said they'd have to look at an agreement.arrrrrrghh... they are being stupid, as I have told them about 5 times, that they don't have it. £500 is a lot of money to give to them, non returnable. I have done the CPR route twice now.. guess I could go the N244 route, which I have seen people talking about on here. If I do this, then the FOS will no adjudicate on the case anymore.

 

At a loss what to do now.

[davey77]

hmmm they don't seem very sharp do they. Trouble is getting to talk to a top person as opposed to a junior legal assistant sometimes.

Surely, can't look at your agreement if the creditor can't supply it. Open and shut case i would have thought.. not very hard to work out.

 

Well, don't give up tho.. have you tried other Solicitors? Not all give the same answers to the same questions that's for sure.

 

I notice (think it's) Terrier7 has a pretty aggressive Solicitor on that case:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/174475-muffintop-mbna-15.html#post2032696

 

Wonder if perhaps he/she will give you a hint as to which Solicitor that is and then you contact them, before deciding on your next move?

[davey77]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/188190-scale-attack-dcas.html

[newward]

thx Davey.. just sent Terrie a message for contact details!!!

[davey77]

I looked online as well of course. Typed in 'unenforceable agreements' into google. Had lots of junk come up though so watch for that.

 

I looked for legal firms that had a wide range of interests: family law, civil, criminal as well as a specialist consumer credit interest. (As well as seeing if their had more than one office). I ignored all sites that only mentioned agreements as their main business and made out that debts could be written off in 10mins with a quick call etc

 

I ignored sites that had incomplete or missing pages (as if they site hadn't been finished yet). I also checked the names of the people, especially when they said they were consumer credit specialists, with some online browsing to find if they gave lectures on consumer credit or published info as well as a search for any publicised courts cases they were involved in.

[Nyati]

Try these people

Edited March 27, 2009 by pt2537
Edit DO NOT POST COMMERCIAL LINKS

[pt2537]

Try these people

Or not as the case may be, check the Ministry of justice press releases , they confirm that the claims posted on that website BREACH the MOJ rules as they make claims which are not verifiable

 

Regards

 

Pt

[davey77]

Any progress newward?

[GuitarHero]

sub

[newward]

Hi, so its been a few months since I have posted on here. In the meantime, I have managed to find a job again - back up in the city, temping, but still a jobs a job in this climate. In regards to the loan.. its now with Natwests solicitors Shoosmiths to come back to me. Natwest suspended any action or reporting on my credit file whilst the case was with the FOS for a few months, earlier in the year. They are now registering late payment on my credit file, and have defaulted my current account. I offered to pay back my overdraft of approx £1000 but they said any money I put into the account, would be used to clear some loan arrears! I'm in the process of writing a notice of correction for my credit files.. does anyone have a useful template that I can attach to my account default/loan payments - to explain the situation?

 

FOS were no help at all.. what a waste.. I sent them a file of correspondence, approx 40 pages worth of letters to and from Natwest and I, but nothing was addressed in terms of their data protection breaches, the fact they cannot locate the loan, the disgusting customer service received.. unreal.. Natwest a couple of months ago then passed on the debt to Triton who started to then hassle me, daily for about a week. I told them I would be getting in touch with my solicitor, and explained to them about the ongoing situation with the lack of agreement. They told me that Natwest had not mentioned anything at all on the file that they sent them, about a dispute. I was then sent a letter from Shoosmiths approx 6 weeks ago..telling me I had 2 weeks to repay the debt, or come to an agreement etc. I called them, again explained the situation - said I would put all this writing. Nothing happened, and so I called them about a week later, and I ended up being put through to one of their solicitors..not one of the customer service people I must have been talking to before. I was on the verge of really losing it with this person, they are solicitors after all, so they try to find flaws in your statement or conversation.. I said I wasn't continuing the conversation anymore, and I would be sending a letter outlining the details of my case, and also questions that I had with regards to the case, that I felt Natwest should answer. We are basically at a stage now, where the ball is in their court. I am advised by someone who is kindly helping me out who is well versed in payment protection matters that they will find it very difficult to answer some of the questions that I have posed - I'll post this up soon..

 

Related to this loan I have experienced a degree of success. I went to the FOS to attempt to reclaim PPI on all loans I have had with Natwest. I have been successful in reclaiming approx £700 from 2 loans, settled many many years ago. I received a letter from the FOS a couple of days ago, to say that Natwest have agreed to settle PPI claims on 4 other loans - 3 of which were settled years ago, 1 is outstanding - ie the one attached to the unenforceable loan!! So I have these offers there from Natwest, but they wont settle the claims seperately.. I am keen to separate the settled PPI reclaims from the PPI that is essentially still live!!

[newward]

Dear Sir/madam

 

After careful consideration of your letter, received 24th July, I hereby request for yourselves to consider the following points, and formal requests.

 

* Natwest have admitted on numerous occasions that they cannot locate the original agreement. I have requested this on several occasions, both as Subject Access Request, a request under CPR, using a letter before action.

 

* Natwest state they have sent me a true copy, in December. I have taken legal advice, and I am informed that this is NOT a true copy. It doesn't contain any prescribed terms, it is NOT the original agreement, it is NOT the original signed agreement, the APR was NOT shown, and there is NO PPI breakdown.

 

I have continued to maintain a dialogue with Natwest, dealing with several different customer service departments, repeating my case, my issues and concerns, several times over. This matter is with the Financial Ombudsman Service, and has been for several months now pending information - ie the ORIGINAL agreement from Natwest.

 

The matter has been raised to the Financial Ombudsman Service, the Information Commissioner, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, HM Treasury, my local member of parliament, and the Citizens Advice Bureau.

 

So to summise , I suggest that you return to your client, to clarify the following points :

 

* why in a letter sent to me by Natwest dated 15th December, that Natwest deem to be a “true copy”, this doesn’t contain prescribed terms, rate of APR, breakdown of PPI, and pure loan re-payments, and no signature from me ( I have enclosed this letter for your reference )

 

* In a letter dated 23rd December 08, your client confirms a rate of APR of 10.5%, and still no APR/PPI breakdown as stipulated above, no signature, or original agreement as requested.

 

* Your client also confirms in this letter, that under s.77 (4) of the Consumer Credit Act, 1974, they would be unable to take steps to enforce repayment by court action. ( this letter is enclosed for your reference ) due to the fact that they cannot locate the ORIGINAL SIGNED AGREEMENT.

I am advised by my legal team and financial adviser, that as this agreement pre-dates 2007, without the ORIGINAL SIGNED agreement this contract is not enforceable in a court of law until.

 

 

*dated 21st May’09 I received a letter from the FOS team

( possibly the 4th person at Natwest.to investigate this issue ).

Natwest give details in this letter finally, about PPI breakdown ( a matter I shall return to later.. ) and a rate of APR of 5.6%. Please refer to my 2nd point in this letter. Natwest confirm a rate of 10.5%. Why the difference in rates???

 

I return to my previous requests for the original agreement – as surely this would show a correct rate of APR…

 

In relation the PPI – I make the following formal requests :

I believe that the Payment Protection Insurance was mis-sold and will be challenging it’s validity. In addition commissions will have been paid, which remain undisclosed.

* I require a breakdown of the non-disclosed amount, deemed as secret commission, any commission paid by the lender to a broker and any commissions paid by the Insurer to the lender as the lender will have a fiduciary duty in relation to the arrangement of the insurance.

* I require a refund of the full amount of the insurance amount, being £5358, plus interest paid on this amount, and statutory interest of 8%.

[citizenB]

That should get their attention, newward

 

Congratulations on the employment..

[newward]

I've just read this on MSE.. very interesting..

 

Could the debt write-off industry become a write-off? - MoneySavingExpert News