Virgin Card - Mbna Cca Is It Valid??

[citizenB]

Thanks iftl, I am really hoping I can send a letter that brings this all to a conclusion you would think they would at least attempt to reply in a sensible manner.

 

I received a call asking me to pay and for information as to who was advising me, I told them it was none of their business so will await their next move.

 

LOL, they do seem to have themselves in a muddle dont they. If you had a copy of the contract in the first place then you wouldnt have needed to request a copy. You would have irrefutable proof that the original wasnt compliant.

 

You are correct, it is none of their business who is advising you. They are probably still in a sulk for having been told off by the OFT.

[citizenB]

Hi Bozalt!

Sorrry to be a bit slow replying to your message Life has been a bit hectic lately! My MBNA thread is called redistressing calls from MBNA I am a bit of a dunce when it comes to posting up threads! LOL but if you click on my profile and then click on mini statistics a link will come up for all my threads! and a direct link to my MBNA thread is listed there!

 

I am stil waiting for my invite to go to MBNA Chester offices to view my alleged agreement!:grin:They got it about a fortnight ago so im sure i will be hearing from them soon;They sent me a default notice a short while ago so am now waiting with baited breath and cant wait to see what lovely pond feeder they pass my account onto !:grin:

 

Well who ever they send it to will get my bemused letter and a request for a original agreement!and a request to view it!:grin:

 

 

 

Here you go Sunflower, the link to your thread.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/153409-re-distressing-phone-call.html

[citizenB]

Hi CB!

Thanks for providing the links! I suppose i ought to try andlook at that that Cag thread the dummies guide! as i suppose as ive been on this forum several months now i ought to know how to provide links!I am still a bit of a dummy when it comes to computers and modern gadgets! My hubby is always telling me that its about time i joined the 21st century and got myself out of the 20th! LOL

 

 

I am slowly learning sunflower. All you need to do for the linky is go into the thread you want the link FROM. Right click on the address bar at the top of the screen, copy then head over to the thread you want the link to be, open a reply box and hit paste. Voila

[citizenB]

First of all, having read the initial letter from LCS... the letter does set out to frighten and elicit a kneejerk reaction and it had it's desired effect. It is for this very reason that 1st credit were censured by the OFT just recently.

 

See this The Office of Fair Trading: OFT imposes requirements on 1st Credit over debt collection practices

 

 

I personally think the letter bozalt sent was sent prematurely as LCS (whom I suspect are inhouse solicitors) have a craftily designed letter to set out what action can be taken, that which they may or may not recommend to their client. Until they did advise their client and a proper letter before action or notice of intended litigation was sent then perhaps it would have been better to do nothing.

 

However, the solicitors have missed the point. The letter bozalt sent mentioned the actions that could be taken by him in the event that court action was started. Not that CPR 31:14 was being used in this instance. He was basically asking for a level playing field. Provide me with the information you intend to rely on in court. They have declined.

 

Unfortunately, what is being said is correct in one respect the CCA does allow certain information to be omitted and it is for this reason that there are other avenues advised by pt2537 by which to request a copy of the agreement.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

 

 

One such route was taken by this CAG member using CPR 31:16

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/165349-smt37-morgan-stanley-goldfish.html

 

I also see further back, that a letter was sent advising initially that an illegible document was sent in respect of the CCA, true, but then went on to point out several discrepancies.. which as pointed out in the response, wouldnt be that obvious if the document was that illegible.

 

You can follow either of the routes in the link above.

 

Make a complaint to the OFT in respect of the article I have linked you to pointing out that LCS are 1st cedit's solicitors. You would need to send a copy of the 1st letter from the solicitor.

 

Or sit on your hands and wait for them to actually send a notice of intended litigation or a claim form.

 

It is always best not to blindly send out letters that have been used previously or template letters. Make sure they are tailored to your specific circumstances and above all, make sure you understand what you are sending out.

 

The good news is they have said they havent issued a claim and confirms my suspicions the original letter was a nasty frightener.

[citizenB]

Finally my internet is working again!!

 

Thanks IFTL, Gaz and Sunflower for your support and advice!

 

Hi CB

 

You are spot on LCS are the inhouse solicitors of 1st credit. I did edit the letters I sent slightly to what is posted here as I didnt want anyone reading the threads to be able to work out who was posting, albiet due to my naivety not fully understanding exactly what I sending!!!

 

I dont think any real harm has been done bozalt. Do make sure you understand what you are sending out in future, check where other people have been in the same position.. what have they done.. what was the outcome/implications.

 

I will lodge a complaint with the OFT as advised and see if it has any effect, at the very least its another nail in the coffin for 1st Credit I would hope.

 

Yes, I would do that. 1st Credit have already been censured.. now is the time to keep the pressure up with the OFT. They wont get involved in your case as an individual, however the more people send in their complaints the bigger the file at the OFT, the swifter they will act.

 

The CCA is illegible in places but I did want to point out the noticable defects, should I just have stated that it was illegible and leave it at that, will this weaken my defence if legal action commences??

 

I shouldnt think it will affect your defence in the event of litigation. Just be aware that if something is illegible then it is just that.

 

To date I have not received my SAR information but I am guessing this will just contain the illegible contract already provided. I am still making a nominal payment to the account but I really just want to get this sorted. Is it best to now wait and see what their next course of action is and do you think it would it be worth making an offer to settle for around 5% of the debt outstanding, are they likely to settle for less as f & f bearing in mind the CCA problems??

 

When should you be in receipt of your SAR.. keep the pressure up.

 

Sorry for all the inane questions but I feel like I am drowning in all this at the moment, all but two of my creditors have been understanding and the two that havent cause me 100% of my stress.

 

Once again many thanks to you and all the others on the board who have helped and advised me.

 

B

 

Not inane questions at all. As it has so often been pointed out to me.. the only stupid question is the one you DONT ask.

 

You are not alone in this respect, just read round the MBNA threads (which I am sure you have) and see that they have quite a huge UNfan club.

[citizenB]

Thanks CB, I am getting there and hope to get my head around everything eventually, so much to learn and I get spooked when I get letters like this.

 

 

I have to be honest and admit my panic meter went into meltdown before I discovered CAG

 

Once you get the measure of these people then you will be able to look at things in a different light. Take it one step at a time and things will fall into place.

[citizenB]

Hi

 

I just thought I would update the thread.

 

I have heard no more from 1st Credit and still have not received my SAR from MBNA despite clearing security almost a month ago.

 

As per CB's advice I have also made a complaint to the OFT regarding the threats made by 1st Credit to apply for a charging order etc. Which will hopefully be taken into the consideration when the requirements imposed are reviewed.

 

So once again thanks for everyone's support and advice and good luck with your own endevours!

 

 

Sounds as though you have everything pretty much under control.

[citizenB]

Thanks Shadow

 

Thats interesting, I wonder why they pretended that the debt still belonged to MBNA for so long? I also noticed that the nominal payment of £1 a month has not been credited to my account and there is no copy of any notice of assignment in my SAR information.

 

Cheers B

 

You should ask for a statement of account that shows those payments:)

 

Hey hey hey

 

Today a new development a letter arrived from Connaught giving 7 days etc, I understand that Connaught are part of 1st Credit.

 

The letter states that they are not aware of any reason for non payment etc, the question is should I reply? As alaways any advice is greatly appreciated!

 

Cheers

 

B

 

Hmmm, well why arent they aware of reason for non payment. Ooops, perhaps MBNA/1st credit havent advised them of this.

 

Just write back quoting the bit below

the OFT guideline clearly state.

 

 

Deceptive and/or unfair methods

2.6

d. not ensuring that an adequate history of the debt is passed on as

appropriate resulting in repetitive and/or frequent contact by different parties.

e. not informing the debtor when their case has been passed on to a different debt collector.

 

 

2.7 Dealings with debtors are not to be deceitful and/or unfair.

 

2.8 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

k. not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt.

HTH

[citizenB]

Have a read of the OFT Guidance on Debt Collection leaflet, which is

 

here

 

It is worth printing out and keeping.

 

It is a common tactic within the DCA industry to "panic" a debtor either by sending letters that dont allow time for you to get informed opinions or information on your situation. The idea is to get you on the phone, this way they can manipulate the conversation and exploit either the naivite of the person or get them to make an arrangement that they will be unable to fulfill.

 

So yes, it is agreed. If these letters were that URGENT, then they should send them at the very least by 1st class post. To ensure they are received however, I would suggest that Recorded would be better.

[citizenB]

I received a letter today from Connaught advising they have requested info from 1st credit - MBNA!!

 

And they reckon they will be more successful in obtaining that information than the last person requesting it .... because ???

[citizenB]

Ha, god knows what they are going to come back to me with, all they ever appear to imply is that they are right and I am wrong!!!!

 

Join the club... sigh....

[citizenB]

I have marked that one on the calendar. Thanks bozalt:D

[citizenB]

Received an offer to settle from Con naught today for 50% of total debt, MBNA offered to settle for around 35%.

 

This sounds to me like they are not so sure they stand a chance of winning should they follow the legal action path as threatened.

 

[citizenB]

Hi All

 

I hope you are well and taking heart from Sunflowers recent success, I am pleased that things are going the right way for her and am sure it inspires us all.

 

I am once again asking for advice and opinions on my next course of action. I today received a letter from Con naught (Copy attached) in response to a letter I sent in June along the lines of CB's post 116 quoting OFT guidelines in relation to deceptive and unfair methods and also requesting a statement of account showing all payments interest and charges for the last eighteen months.

 

Connaught have sent back a copy of the defective CCA together with statements from MBNA showing the debt was sold to 1st Crudit in Oct 2008. No details of where my payments have gone since then or details of any further charges etc.

 

I would be grateful for any advice as to how I should respond to Con naught? Should I re-iterate the dispute is due to defective CCA and ask for the statement requested earlier?

 

Also should I instigate a claim for unfair charges against MBNA? They were adding around £24-36 charges + £168-190 interest to the account for around 8 months before selling to 1st Crudit!

 

Once again all advice is very much appreciated and I promise to stop hassling for advice as I learn more and gain more confidence!!

 

Many thanks and best regards

 

B

 

[ATTACH]12978[/ATTACH]

 

bosalt, I am not quite sure of the question.

 

If you have a defective CCA, then you can continue to request a compliant copy. Although with MBNA, I am not sure that will get you very far.

 

Only you can decide if you want to stop payments.

 

Have you received a notice of assignment to 1st Credit ? Are you saying that although you have been making payments toward the account, those payments are not showing up anywhere ?

 

Yes, you can head any correspondence to them, Account in Dispute. But also make it an official complaint.

[citizenB]

Sorry bozalt, I missed the letter at the bottom of your original post:rolleyes:

 

Well that letter looks suspiciously like a Formal demand to me, in that they are demanding payment in full within 7 days.

 

Have they sent you a Default Notice at some time ?

 

If the cca they have enclosed is the same as the other copies they have sent and which are apparently questionable.. then they still havent complied.

 

I am just going to pop back over your thread. BRB

[citizenB]

bozalt, in between mini powercuts:mad: I have had a look back over your thread. I dont see..

 

a proper notice of assignment from anyone to anyone

 

a Default notice, yet this latest letter from Connaughts appears to be a Final demand (although not formally headed as such).

 

If a DN was sent to you, was it valid ? In whose name was it issued ?

 

the documents you have received are illegible and from what can be seen there are no prescirbed terms.

 

Payments you have been making appear to be missing on their records. Do you have records of these payments ? ie paying in slips that have been stamped, bank statements if you are doing online transfer, cheque stubs, postal order receipts ?

 

The letter they sent above, how was it posted (you are keeping envelopes arent you) ? As you will see, the letter is dated 28th September and asks for payment within 7 days..!!

 

Bearing mind there is a postal dispute and millions of letters are reported to be piliing up in sorting offices all over the country. Chances are you might not have received this letter at all ?

[citizenB]

Hi CB

 

No worries, its great that your spending the time looking at this for me and it is appreciated. I hope the power cuts ease up for you otherwise you are in for a frustrating day!

 

I have not received any notice of assignment at any stage, I think I have had a Default Notice, I will look back at my records tonight and scan a copy up I am guessing this will be in the name of MBNA. You are spot on the documents are illegible and do not contain prescribed terms which has formed part of my dispute.

 

RIght, then you dont know for sure that it HAS actually been passed over to another company and at some stage you will want proof of this.

 

I have been making payment by standing order and have copies of all my bank statements so am able to prove these so am unable to understand why they didnt provide a statement detailing these???

 

That is good news to hear.

 

The letter was sent franked mail and was received on 2 October so not much chance of a realistic time to respond. I am keeping all envelopes now but if any default was sent I hadnt been keeping envelopes at that point, I see what you mean about the post how can they be sure it arrived???

 

Never mind - it still took 4 days to reach you and the 2nd was a Friday so that only left you today to do something. Hmmm, certainly not enough time to write to them.. but a phone call would have really made their day, wouldnt it ??

 

Its possible this is just another threatogram. I will post up the DN tonight hopefully this will also be defective, would you mind checking in later to advise me further regarding my next course of action?

 

No possible about it.. it is a definite threatogram

 

 

Many thanks again for your help!

 

B

 

 

Yep, I shall be lurking around later on..

[citizenB]

It also appears very shoddy that they cant even get the name of the company correct at the top, Copinaught? who are they then?

 

 

S.

 

Well spotted shadow. I just popped that heading into Google and of course came up with Connaught.. but have a looksee what they consider themselves to be .

 

 

"an intelligent approach to debt collection "

[citizenB]

Hi CB

 

I have just been through all my records and have located the default notice dated 7 November 2008, which looks to be in order a copy is attached.

 

Checking through my records I did receive a letter from 1st Credit introducing their company and stating the debt had been assigned to them on 12 December 2009, so I guess that is the notice of assignment?

 

I just checked the threatogram and it was dated 28 September but franked on the 1st October!!!!

 

Grateful for your input on this and any advice you have to offer.

 

Cheers

 

B

 

 

Umm, no it isnt The case of the missing Default Notice

 

The assignment has to be accurate in every detail.. is it ?

 

Do keep that envelope safe.. naughty of them to predate the letter.

[citizenB]

That is an appalling copy of a Default Notice

 

7th November 2008 was a Friday, so the earliest you could have received it

 

if sent by 1st class post = Tuesday, 11th of November

if sent by 2nd class post - Thursday, 13th of November

 

remedy date given in notice is 24th November so.. either way you werent given sufficient time accordign to the regulations.

 

[citizenB]

TBH, I dont really know much about assignments.

 

Yep, you could write a short n sweet note to Connaught advising that this is still in dispute because of the CCA issue. You could also copy it to 1st Creidt.

 

Why, would they expect you to SAR them.. :confused:I doubt MBNA would have passed any information over to them.. if they had, then they would be able to provide a copy of a valid agreement.

[citizenB]

bozalt, it might have been a good idea to have inserted the word "legible" in your letter. If I recall, they have only sent a fuzzy copy:D

[citizenB]

Hi

 

I hope you are all having a good weekend, I just thought I would update the thread with the most recent development.

 

Another letter arrived today from 1st Credit, I thought it a bit strange that it wasnt from con naughts! This time it is offering 30% discount for settling within 7 days together with a statement detailing my nominal payments and curiously a £1 charge added by Con naughts.

 

I am not sure what the charge is for or if the letter is meant to be a reply to my last letter sent to both Con naughts and 1st Credit. It seems they send out letters at random to see what response they provoke

 

Any ideas why they would add a charge of £1????

 

All the best

 

B

 

Could be they have charged you a £1.00 for a copy of the CCA ?.

[citizenB]

Hi CB

 

I thought that might be the case but its a bit cheeky adding a charge to the debt. I guess they are banking on receiving a partial settlement so the bigger the debt the more they will receive.

 

I did double check the charges that were added since I advised MBNA of financial difficulties and with interest its almost £2k in total!!!!

 

Regards

 

B

 

That sounds about right. I think this is the reason it takes them so long to terminate the account and pass it on..

[citizenB]

Hi All

 

I hope you are all well and looking forward to xmas, just a small update.

 

I received a further copy of the faulty CCA today together with more copy statements and a letter requesting a confirmation of my signature so that they can sned me a full copy of the documents. They also request proposals to clear the debt.

 

Do you think this warrants a reply???

 

Many thanks

 

B

 

Ummm, nope:D