Bank of Scotland terminated without default notice and without claiming full balance, Blair, Oliver Scott DCA

[millymollymoo]

Firstly, I would like to say hello again. It has been along time since I have posted. I am not sure if I no anyone anymore.

 

I wonder if any of you could help me on this situation I am in.

 

early sept rang B of S to say I was unable to make the min payment explaining circumstances and offering a token payment. They said they do not accept less and talk to payplan, CCCS or someone else. I made the lower payment anyway.

 

Contacted CCCS anyway and was in process of this [not set up yet though]

 

Never received arrears letters just statements never staing account in arrears or anything just increasing balance and minimum payment. I send CCA request and seperately a Financial statement [edit] to B of S, 6 days lated letter arrived [edit] with no time left to act] [how convenient as no time left!] from Blair, oliver scott.... following the CCA request. I believe their letter has been backdated

...............................................................................................

BLAIR, OLIVER and SCOTT

DEBT COLLECTORS

 

Dear millymollymoo,

 

*****************************************

NOTICE OF LEGAL PROCEEDINGS

SUM CLAIMED: £XXXX.XX

{Funnily enough this amount is the last minimum payment on octobers statement NOT THE FULL BALANCE.]

*****************************************

Retail Bank Collections

Credit Card Account Number: xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx

 

A Default Notice has recently been issued to you as you are in breach of the terms and conditions of your agreement { emmm never received a default or any other letter bar statemnts???]

 

You have failed to repay the requested amount by the date shown on the notice. As a result your credit agreement has been terminated.

 

We are instructed by our Clients, the above named{emm not mentioned!!!], to institute proceedings against you for recovery of the above sum in your local court.

 

Unless you make payment, or submit suitable payment proposals for payment, within 7 days of this notification [already passed when received on 18th] then legal proceedings will commence withou further notice. as this course of action may render you liable for additional court costs, we trust you will give this matter your immediate and personal attention.

 

PLEASE MAKE CHEQUE PAYABLE AS INSTRUCTED ON YOUR MONTHLY STATEMENT

 

yours sincerely

 

Dawn Hood

Senior Operations manager

 

P.S If you are experiencing financial difficulties, please contact us immediately to discuss the matter. Should you wish independent advice, we recommend that you consult your nearest Citizens Advice Bureau or the Consimer Credit Counseling Services who can be contacted on 0800 138 1111.

 

 

.....................................................................................

 

Right so this is waht I have been sent, now my question. I have NEVER received a default notice at all. B of S NEVER stated that their were arrears on my statemnts, infact the last statement [novembers] is the first to say you HAVE FAILED TO MAKE THE MONTHLY MINIMUM PAYMENT and says you MAY have committed a breach .

They ask for minimum payment in December.

 

NO DEFAULT ENCLOSED NOTHING????

 

 

Next thing following this letter I receive a letter from B OS saying they agree to reduce payments and will lower the interst rate till march. [ a bit odd since they didnt want to help before, dont they know they have terminated my account???]

 

 

They are also over the deadline on the CCA request.

 

Now what I would like to ask is that the official letter from Blair, Oliver Scott states that my account is TERMINATED!! and they have ONLY asked for the minimum payment which I know was missed payments accumalated, {incuded penalty charges]but they never noted that until Novembers statement dated by the way the same date as Blair, Olivers letter exactly.

 

Am I right in thinking that as they have terminated on the minimum payment [arrears not correct by the way as ncluded overlimit amount and this is a lot oversted]ONLY as the sum claimed,they can no longer claim the future balance as the agreement is now not a live account and not claimed on this termination letter above.

 

All help appreciated.

 

 

Milly XXXX

Edited December 7, 2008 by millymollymoo
too much info for BOS if thy are nosing

[millymollymoo]

Hello banker and x20:)

Thank you both for your replies. I have already sent a letter to the B of S and Blair of which were received yesterday. I hope I have not done the wrong thing:rolleyes: I have said in the letter that i have never received a Default notice or any notice that the account was in arrears as the statements only said minimum payment required bar the last that only said you have failed to make your minimum payment {it was actully missing 4 and yet they never asked for anything on statements or sent any arrears letters] I put them to proof of the said default notice issued. I may of jumped the gun I am thinking and should of waited as I also said that as the account was terminated it was unlawful recission of contract and on the back of no default notice .:roll:

 

I never highlighted the sum as wrong[ and believe me it is MASSIVELY alot less than the remaining balance before termination, however it would take them a nano second to see their error. They will fight I know as the loss is too big for them

 

Have I done a boo:rolleyes: boo:rolleyes:??

 

MillyX

[millymollymoo]

Just thinking what IF they have cocked up and that letter was to induce panic in me but didnt realise themselves that no DN had been issued.

 

I am taking it that the letter quite clearly says my credit card agreement is terminated therefore on that basis it terminated on the sum in the letter surely:confused: Would a judge agree with the amount claimed on that letter or not? The reason is account normally terminate with the Full balnce being claimed. Can they undo their wrong??

[millymollymoo]

Hello Millymollymoo!

 

The key issue is they have Terminated, and you have a Letter that says so. That should pin-point the Date of Termination.

 

Now you need to get a Copy of that Default Notice ASAP to see if it is valid or not.

 

Sorry about my Post above, I had mis-read things and assumed they had started Legal Acton. That doesn't appear to be the case, so the CPR 31.14 Letter is not suitable until they do start Legal Action. Get ready to send it if/when they do.

 

For now, you need to use any method you can to try and see a Copy of the Default Notice, but don't alert them as to why you want to see a Copy. Likewise, try not to say words like invalid if you can avoid it...don't want them getting any ideas!

 

ASAP send them £10 and a Subject Access Request, and sneak in a phrase or two that specifically asks for a copy of the Agreement, Default Notice, Termination Letter, Notice of Assignment etc...all being well, they won't really know why you are asking, and the Default Notice request won't stand out in amongst the other requests, so they'll just send you a Copy without realising why you are asking.

 

The main limiting factor with a S.A.R. is they have 40 Calendar Days to respond to your Request, which is quite a long time.

 

x20 will correct this if I am wrong, but I think you can now use CPR 18 to request the same details, in view of their Threat of Legal Action. That may be a faster (and cheaper) way to get the same information. It should be reasonable to say you'd like the response back within 14 Days, and it could tease out a Copy of the Default Notice a little faster than via Subject Access Request.

 

Cheers,

BRW

 

Hello Banker:)

 

I will do what you suggested.

 

I still think my letter has jumped the gun a bit. It will be interesting to get their response anyway. I bet they are hastily printing a default notice up in reply to the letter I had already sent {wished I had spoken to you first!!}

 

The way I see it is that the amount requested on their letter threatening to start legal proceedings in my first post which states they have terminated is all that they would legally entitled to ask for am I right?

 

If they produce a default letter it will be interesting to see the date of it and the date to remedy action, the reason I say this is ecause NO demands were ever requested by them on their statements, no word saying aout me eing in arrears and as I said the last statement only said and this is the first mention of any problem 'you have failed to make your minimum payment'....you MAY be in breach.....and then just shows a new minimum payment for december which is different to the sum claimed on termination.

 

They have made a lot of mistakes as the sum claimed is Octobers minimum payment not novembers which coincides EXACTLY with the date of their letter sent.

 

I will check out CPR 18 otherwise do a subject access request, although I have probably peed them off with the letter I had already sent as I have already put them to proof of no default notice.

 

The main thing is can they change the sum claimed on the termination letter afterwards or not and in your view are they able to request the remaining balnce now they have terminated?

 

terminated is surely that and they lose all their own rights to enforce any other sum not claimed.

 

Milly XXX

[millymollymoo]

Ok have a reply today 4th december:

just saying they are sorry I am unhappy and may need 4 weeks to respond,

Edited December 7, 2008 by millymollymoo
letter deleted as may identify my case they are dealing with at the moment

[millymollymoo]

Thanks x20 and banker. The letter it relates to is bits and pieces I picked up on here. I do not want to post it up as they are nosy,but if you PM me with your email addresses I will send it via email. Think I may of jumped the gun a bit though as i quoted the woodchester case etc..

 

I am getting the S.A.R off tomorrow unless they can change dates on the computer as in issuing a backdate default new notice,then this will be interesting.

 

can you believe how stupid they are though. This is a massive error to terminate just claiming that tiny amount. If they do circumvent a default notice then it would be inconsistent with their bank statements which never mentioned arrears at all and they would have to answer why the Blair letter stating termination had only asked for the minimum accumalated missed payments.

 

 

my belief is this was a standard template letter and they only meant to ask for arrears to panic me. However did not check as to what template they were using and it said TERMINATION.

 

Milly x

Edited December 4, 2008 by millymollymoo

[millymollymoo]

Oh one other thing what extra things shoukld I put it to the standard template S.a.r on here to ask for default notice etc.

 

 

oh by the way they are over their deadline for the CCA too!

[millymollymoo]

I am afraid the CPR is off limits until legal proceedings are underway. CPR 18 is of no use. CPR 18 is designed to assist in the clarification of issues in legal proceedings. The only part of the CPR which has practical application pre-action is the pre-action protocol and the general requirement concerning pre-action behaviour.

 

If a letter has already been sent there's little else which can be done until the reply is received. A Subject Access Request is still worth doing though I'd say. It might provide you with a bunch of evidence you would find real handy.

 

My view coincides with yours. A termination without prior service of an effective default notice limits what might be recovered to the arrears only.

x20

This I particulary like. :-D:-D:-D

[millymollymoo]

OOPs I meant to say the BANK of SCOTLAND and Blair are NOSY in reference to pasting the letter I sent!!!!! not the peeps on here !!!!!!!

[millymollymoo]

Sent S.A.R request off to the mound, edinburgh. tick tock...

 

Shall I send a non compliance letter regarding the CCA request that is over its deadline or not?

 

milly XXX

Edited December 7, 2008 by millymollymoo

[millymollymoo]

Received what they believe is a valid CCA, a pile of poo no signatures boxes nothing stating that under section 78 of CCA that they are not required to provide a copy of the original. That may be true however this is clearly staing 'conditions of use' on this alleged agreement . The two pages are not connected and in completely different fonts, and there is actually no space for signature boxes at all. I also;)know it is not a true copy;).

 

There is also another apparent agreement all looks like current terms and conditions, this however does not match my current card.

 

Have already sent last week S.A.R requesting the agreement in there so they will have to provide a true copy with signatures.

 

Oh interestingly they have enclosed statement of account so yes it seems they are ignoring the fact of the terminated letter they sent where they completely cocked up, as the original balance is hown along with arrears etc etc and still processing the account as normal.

 

Sorry but I have a letter that states account terminated a month ago.

 

Milly XX

[millymollymoo]

Hello anyone???????????

 

Milly:(

[millymollymoo]

Hello banker:) I received an arrears letter yesterday on the account now with just two missing payments instead of 5 which it should be. I never received one of these before the letter terminating my account nothing infact. This does not even make sense with the statement I received, completely wrong amount as to what is arrears and I also received a bank statement charging NO interest. WHAT ARE THEY PLAYING AT STILL PROCESSING THIS ACCOUNT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I believe they are trying to ignore the termiation that was stated in Blair, oliver scott letter as they have realised the costly error and they are trying to go ahead and default for the full balance to try and claim it as though that letter was never sent.

 

Never had a default and am waiting for the S.A.R to see the information, but I do not believe their was one, but they have until 17 january to send that, something tells me they will not comply. By the way a similar thing has happened on another thread about blair, oliver. scott and the Bank of Scot admitted they had not sent a default notice.

 

I feel I should write a letter as it would look like I was not concerned at their devious actions.

 

If the account is terminated on just the arrears and they failed to claim the full balance then that is their own fault. If they did not send a default notice [which I will find out from the S.A.R] then they failed to correctly follow the correct procedures in enforcement and mistakenly allowed a letter to be sent by blair, Oliver, scott in post 1, saying the account is terminated.

 

If this is so then this is unlawful termination am I correct????

 

 

I would think that they have blown all rights to collect the future balnce as this WAS NOT asked for on the letter above just the arrears which does contain penalty charges by the way. The letter clearly says your credit agreemnt is terminated. No judge can surely say ' oh they made a mistake and they are entitled to the full amount '

 

Terminated means end so no agreement anymore{and what they sent as the supposed agreement is terms and conditions of use and that it is a conjectured reconstruction] with many errors and I KNOW this as a fact;) It also contained no signature box or signatures, but then it wouldnt as it was terms and conditions and they had added in a different font my name and address and theirs.

 

 

what I want to know if they have not sent any default notice but terminated by mistake lets say , could they be allowed to reinstate withot my agreement?

 

I beleive that they know they have made a mistake and are just ignoring that letter. This is in writing though and that cannot be ignored.

 

 

 

I also would like to send a letter as I do not think that any judge would think I took any action to correct the situation. What do you think.

 

Milly XX

 

 

 

What on earth are they playing at???

Edited December 14, 2008 by millymollymoo
spelling is awful sorry

[millymollymoo]

Thanks banker:)

 

my opinion is they know and are trying to backtrack as their behaviour is now sending a arrears notice with oft notice and only claiming that there are TWO payments missing november and december. [trying to enforce by the CCA regulations requirements]They are trying to ignore that mistake though there is no letter yet admitting that.

 

They are playing a dangerous game in my opinion as this could be deemed unlawful as well, mistating arrears now to try and then reterminate the account. {i have a Very strong feeling thats what they are up to in view of the future balance they did not claim on termination]

 

I have a letter from them dated july that I didnt mention and the arrears then were what they are claiming in this NEW arrears notice. I never received anything else, no default, no more arrears nowt and then the blair, oliver scott letter notifying termination on a sum that was equal to the arrears at that time [5 missed payments]

 

So you see what I mean I paid two teeny weeny amounts so the new arrears notice 6 months later is completley a farce. The statements backs it up to as well as the credit file.

 

 

I will wait and let them carry on as it will look all the more terrible for them.

 

I checked my credit file and it showed a delinquent balance three weeks ago for november 4 in arrears in abig fat red[which I printed for evidence incase they change it] no default and none shown as of today. i have an online account with all three agencies;)

 

It has all the markings of being an unlawful termination.

 

Milly X

[millymollymoo]

Hiya Angel:)

Yep sounds exactly the same. Mine was from Blair,Oliver,Scott. How much are they asking in the final sum is it the whole balance, cos they made a BIG mistake on mine. I got mine 8 days later too.{to make you panic!!]

 

By the way as it says your credit card agreement has been terminated. Then take it from me that is a letter infornming you of termination. same thing:D

 

I heard from HBOS to say they are dealing with my S.A.R

 

Also, still waiting for their reply to my complaint and 4 weeks is nearly up!

 

I have sent them a letter today concerning the processing of the account and a S10 data protection notice and told them that as the account is terminated thaey are unable to do this and any future letters asking for the minimum payment { what a laugh!!!] will be ignored. I know banker advised to ignore them, the thing is I feel that if I do not ask why they are doing this [sending a monthly statement, arrears letter etc] then if it ends up it court then the judge may not be toi impressed with my pre action protocls. i.e why did I not advise them of the problem.

 

Oh well I feel it is right in my circumstances as it will make them look bad when they attempt to send a default notice on a terminated account and we all know why they want to do that.

Edited December 19, 2008 by millymollymoo
extra info

[millymollymoo]

Hello Milly!

 

I think the best plan is to just play this slowly and gather the information outlined in Post #19 above.

 

There is no need to chase them up, let them write what they want for now.

 

Your main task is to get a copy of any Default Notice they may've issued before BOS DCA advised the alleged Account was Terminated.

 

Don't make it too clear why you want this, but see what comes back in the S.A.R. first, and then chase them for anything they missed from the S.A.R.

 

Check your Credit Files too, as they may show a Default, so another potential way to get at that Default Notice is to write to the CRAs moaning the Default is invalid, please send you a Copy of the Notice they claim you failed to remedy.

 

But, whatever you do, don't start telling them, yet, what they may or may not have blown.

 

The two things you need to try and get are the Default Notice and a Letter saying the alleged Agreement is Terminated. You have one already, so you just need the other bit!

 

If BOS admit they never sent a Default Notice, even better, as that'll make the Termination all the more unlawful.

 

But do play this so that you get what you need without alerting them as to why.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

BRW

 

 

Hi banker i know what your saying, but they know their mistake its a big one and they are running the account in my opinion for their own means to reterminate the account for the full balance and that is unlawful. I cannot see how they can explain there actions as the letter clearly states terminated, therefore they have reactivated my account without my permission or signing a new credit agreement.

 

I have asked for the default notice in my S.A.R which they have confirmed they are processing the S.A.R now. whether this contains the default notice I will find out.

 

I have sent a letter as I am concerned of what a judge may think if I did not ask them why they were still processing my account and a S10 notice. if I ignore this I feel if would look bad on me. The default notice has been asked for in the original letter I sent after termination letter and in my S.A.R.

 

Not heard apeep from Blair, Oliver, Scott as they have probably handed it back.

 

Milly X

[millymollymoo]

Hi Angel a typed copy of mine is in post 1.

 

It was headed NOTICE OF LEGAL PROCEEDINGS

SUM CLAIMED: £XXXX.XX

 

not final reminder so maybe slightly diff than yours but yours does say terminated so is just as it says.

 

Going to bed soon time flys when you are reading other peeps stories.

 

Milly XXX

[millymollymoo]

hello angel and hello there banker:)

 

Glad you feel better angel they are complete idiots and wonder how they still have a licence for credit!

 

Requested the default notice via letter 3 weeks ago and s.a.r. over a week ago. Had a letter confirming they are dealing with my s.a.r so lets see what turns up. nowt apart from that.

 

It will be interesting as i have asked for all notes etc held as to the account. I will be closely looking out for when the account was terminated, default etc. will be interesting to say the least.

 

will also be very interesting as to the date and balance if they recreate one;) cos they are making so many unlawful errors at present. the more they do the better it is for me.

 

Unfair business practices section 140 springs to mind here as well due to their dodgy enforcement practice;)

 

I have emailed the OFT concerning the issues for their advice as to the events and will be good for future action.

 

I appreciate both your support:)

 

milly XXx

[millymollymoo]

Hello Milly!

 

Just to catch up with this...have you received a copy of the Default Notice yet?

 

I think you'd be wise to stop communicating with them on other issues and instead focus on keeping up the pressure for the S.A.R. response, i.e. to get a copy of any Default Notice ASAP.

 

If no Default Notice turns up via S.A.R., then I'd write asking them to let you have a Statement by an Officer of the bank that there is nothing more to send you.

 

That could then be used to counter any back-dated Default Notice that they subsequently create.

 

If they have Terminated without a Default Notice, even better!

 

Cheers,

BRW

 

 

Still waiting for the Default Notice recreated or otherwise....... like the 'recreated' CCa they sent:lol:

 

As I said have received confirmation that they are dealing with my S.A.R request.

 

I asked for, true copy of signed credit agreement default, notice of assigment everything they hold:cool:

 

They said in letter in reply to telephone conversations that they do not routinely record conversations, but if I give them dates, times etc they will produce the notes. this however should be provided anyway as I requested a record of all notes etc. they have on the account since opened.

 

Milly XX

 

 

 

ADDING FOR REFERENCE:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank-bank-scotland/156429-lexis200-hbos-blair-oliver.html?highlight=Lexis200+V+HBOS%2FBlair+Oliver+Scott+-rubbish+CCA

[millymollymoo]

Received an answer to the complaint I sent about bank of Scotland/Blair,Oliver Scott:

 

I can confirm that the businesses you mention hold a consumer credit licence. Under the Consumer Credit Act, holders of consumer credit licences must be fit and competent to do so and the OFT has a duty to monitor the fitness and conduct of all traders who hold such a licence.

 

We have therefore noted the details of your complaint, and we will consider this alongside any other complaints we have received with a view to any consumer credit licensing or other action we may decide to take. If we do take any action against this trader, it is likely that we would need to disclose your identity to this trader along with details of your complaint. I should therefore be grateful if you could sign the enclosed consent form and return it to me. Unfortunately, we cannot disclose any details about any action we may take, due to legal restrictions on the OFT relating to disclosure of information.

 

Thank you again for writing to us and bringing this matter to our attention.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Mr David Annis

Enquiries and Reporting Centre

Office of Fair Trading

 

 

 

------------------------------------------------------

 

 

I have to fill in a permission to disclosure form is this standard for the OFT?

 

milly X

[millymollymoo]

still here and waiting..................

 

Milly

[millymollymoo]

letter received said still investigating lol!!!! mmmm wheres the default notice then??????????????

 

 

Milly

 

P.S still waiting for my S.a.r request too!!

[millymollymoo]

Hi AA:) I will see if I can post it up!

 

LOL!!! finally received the long awaited investigation letter !!!!

 

Mmmmmm........completely ignored everything, confirms the account remains OPEN!!!! we all know why though don't we!!!! Me thinks not as to reinstate against my agreement is unlawful. Confirms a date of DN issue but refrains from sending a copy!!!!. [does not tie in though with the account if the date that is in the letter is correct as the account would not of reached that stage then!]

 

They also resend the blank apparent credit agreement again that says precisely nothing apart from they have no document in their midst!

 

BANKER NEED YOUR HELP PLEASE.

 

MILLY xx

[millymollymoo]

Could someone help with post 36 please

 

Milly X

[millymollymoo]

Thank you banker;). I will do this.i appreciate you taking time out to help with my situationas I know you have your own matters to sort out.

 

I will send you a rep[if it lets me do it again!]

 

Milly XXX