HFO Services blatant disregard of CCA REQUEST.

[uhu]

Hi all,

Further on from my palaver with Hfo last year , I just recieved a response from Barclaycard in response to my SAR request, however they failed to send me a CCA which I specifically asked for however they confessed that that they had no other information regarding the account apart from the statements which they sent out and some irretrievables on Microfilche or something.I am unsure what step to take, obviously one cannot overlook the importance of a missing CCA or indeed the absence of one..please advice

[Docman]

Hi Uhu

 

What are old fiends in SW19 up to?

[uhu]

Thanks for asking Docman..quiet so far and understandably so , particularly if the cca and Subject Access Request pose a slightly tricky problem for both parties to this mierable business as well as the offending HFO,all of whom are yet to reply satisfactoryily to the requests, as you can glimpse from my recent post..but I'll wait a little, just in case, unless counselled to do otherwise.Kind of you to ask.

[manchester1]

Uhu , it would seem that they have no cca:cool:

 

 

Manc1

[uhu]

Guys , I need some kindly advice on how to respond to HFO services and Braclays.Barclays as you would have susupected passed my details to HFO regarding a defunct credit card account, I accordingly asked HFO to provide certain documents including the CCA and correspondingly sent a S.A.R to Barclayscard,who responded with a sheaf of statements and in their reply stated that they do not have any other documents regarding the account , then HFO suddenly produced an unreadable document (Photocopied ) which has my name address and signature and a wholly illegible terms with condition section.Again shortly after this Barclays wrote to me saying that they have recieved a request from a third party to send me a copy of myagreement, what they sent however was a printed version ofthe terms and conditions with nom name on it.Cleverly in their letter they said they were sending me a true copy of my agreement, it didnt even have any name on it! Please most kindly advice on how to proceed.

[dx100uk]

how old is the CC in question? last use/pay etc?

 

i'd post a scan of the cca up on the dca forum.

lets see if its ok or not.

 

then the fun begins!

 

dx

[uhu]

Thanks for your response, to answer your question I made an initial payment of £75 to the DCA before I realised what was happening and that was back in September last year.I have aslo posted the missives recieved from Barclayscard and the supposed cca in the thread.I am applled by the underhanded manner in which barclaysbank is handling this, in the most recent missive, in which they sated that they sent me a true copy of CCA, all they sent was the generic T & C! with no names or signature.

[maroondevo52]

Hi, uhu.

 

You could try sending them this............

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account Number: XXX

 

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending a copy of your companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

 

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

 

Yours faithfully

 

(don't sign the letter)

 

 

 

I'm going to merge your other thread with this one, as it's always better to stick to one thread on this subject, lets other people see what replys you've had in the past.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[deepdebt]

Hi maroondevo52,

 

Hope you don't mind but I have taken a copy of the above letter to send onto Barclaysharks when they send the usual T&Cs that they seem to be sending to everyone who dares to send in a CCA request.

 

Hope thats alright.

[uhu]

Thanks Guys for your prompt response, you can view the HFO's answer to my cca request, Barclayscard first response to my S.A.R to which they responded by sending statements and second and most recent, to which they replied by sending T&C,though interestingly enough they call it a ' a copy of my original agreement' , what to do????

 

 

HfOsidea.jpg picture by uhu_09 - Photobucket

 

Barclayscardfirstletter.jpg picture by uhu_09 - Photobucket

 

BCsecondmissive.jpg picture by uhu_09 - Photobucket

[cerberusalert]

It's an application form they've sent you. It doesn't contain any of the prescribed terms....so I guess you already know what the answer is. Then they ice the cake by admitting that's all they've got.

[uhu]

Thanks for this prescription, spot on and swell too.

[uhu]

Thanks scott for your response , cracking sharp..

[uhu]

will it matter terribly that I paid hfo initially?

Edited February 8, 2009 by uhu

[cerberusalert]

No....in law it would be deemed as a "Gift" from you to them.

[cerberusalert]

You can send them this now if you want;

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:− Account/Reference

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

I have received the documents you sent and in the accompanying letter you you have confirmed this to be a true copy of the credit agreement that exists in relation to this account. As you have sent this document in response to a formal request under Section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, this statement is now binding on you as per section 172 of the Act.

 

I must inform you that the information received does not meet the requirements of a properly executed credit agreement under the 1974 Act.The document received does not contain any of the prescribed terms as set out in the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) Schedule 6 Column 2.

 

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974

 

 

The absence of a properly executed credit agreement prevents you from:

Adding interest to the account

Taking any enforcement action on the account

Issuing any default notices or registering any default marker with a credit reference agency

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

 

 

 

 

Wilson v First County Trust Ltd [2001] EWCA Civ 633, Sir Andrew Morritt, Vice Chancellor said:

The creditor must…be taken to have made a voluntary disposition, or gift, of the loan monies to the debtor. The creditor had chosen to part with the monies in circumstances in which it was never entitled to have them repaid

In the case of Dimond v Lovell [2000] UKHL 27, Lord Hoffmann said:

Parliament intended that if a consumer credit agreement was improperly executed, then subject to the enforcement powers of the court, the debtor should not have to pay.

I would also point out that if you continue to pursue me for this debt while it is dispute you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines.

 

 

 

 

What I Require

I require all correspondence in writing from here on; any persistent attempts to contact me by phone will be reported to trading standards

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case.

Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

 

Since the agreement is unenforceable it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for you to write the alleged debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

 

 

Yours Faithfully

[uhu]

doesnt sound good,