AA99 v GE Money Car Loan

[pt2537]

AA99

 

in addition to the advice youve already recieved:)

 

if you have a GE money car loan, and there was a broker or intermediary who set up the loan (Car dealer etc) then you should make a Data Subject access request and ask for a copy of the underwriting sheet or other document which contains commission paid to the broker by GE money

 

under law of agency , a broker is required to disclose commissions paid to them , if they fail to disclose the commission then it can give you a claim for restitution / counter restitution

 

i bet there is an undisclosed commission on that sheet, i see many underwriting sheets and the commission is normally in the top right hand corner, just to give you a pointer

 

Regards

paul

[pt2537]

16 December I accepted a recorded phone call from Shoosmiths. She didn't seem to know much about my account and had only phoned to arrange collection of the arrears. Wanted 30% of the arrears which included their £100 fee! I did advise her to get back to her client, GEMoney who will tell them that my account is in default due to the defaulted Default Notice and I was still endeavouring to set up an acceptable repayment plan.

 

She didn't know if it was a Hire Purchase Agreement or a personal Loan. My CCA clearly shows it as a fixed sum Loan. Having scrutinised the Agreement more closely, the less happy I am with the figures that Carcraft compiled............:?

 

Can they repossess my car ????

 

#NO they cannot repossess your car!!!!

 

If the credit Agreement states fixed sum credit and NOT hire purchase then they are screwed, DO NOT give them the car under any circumstances

[pt2537]

I have got a perfectly acceptable CCA from them, in my opinion, but nobody's commented definitely on it

 

Really? do you have it posted on here? if so can you let me have a link and i will have a look

[pt2537]

right

 

First observations

 

It aint secured on the car so they can go suck it as far as repo'ing the car goes

 

should be headed as a Hire purchase agreement if they want the rights to recover the car!!!!!

[pt2537]

also the agreement doesnt state the deposit so i think there may be an issue over the amount of credit and the cash price being different for the car

[pt2537]

AA99

 

was there any deposit paid for the car? if so how much

 

also if there was a deposit, is the deposit set out Anywhere on the documents you have??

 

Id be very very interested as if there was no deposit id argue that the amount of credit or the cash price ( both of which are prescribed terms) one of them is incorrectly stated thus rendering the agreement improperly executed and unenforceable

[pt2537]

infact the deeper i dig the more i find

 

under the amount of credit for the warranty loan £1795 now that is the amount of credit

 

so add to that the total charge for credit which is stated as £861.80

 

now when i went to school and did my A and O level maths adding the two together you get £2656.80 NOT the £3169.37 that the agreement states as being payable

 

its no exaggeration but you are being over charged based upon what i see before me

[pt2537]

The only place it is quoted is on a photocopy of the Finance Invoice from Carcraft to Me at the wrong address and the invoice no. ends in /GE HP and was attached to my CCA from them which in turn was 2 photocopies, First page numbered 1 of 4, second page numbered 2 of 4.

 

The CCA refers to Motor Loan and then underneath Fixed Sum Loan Agreement governed by CCA 1974

 

I have pages 3 and 4 of 4 but they are just T & C's with no references nos. except to refer to "you" and "us".

 

I also have 2 separate receipts for my deposit which was paid in 2 parts that I 'may be able to put my hands on'.....................

 

Ok so can you let me know the total deposit that you made, then i will run the sums through Dualcalc and check if they are correct.

 

I do believe as things stand we can raise an argument over the enforceability of the agreement. inaddition since there was a broker used here, there is a real risk that there was a commission that has not been disclosed to you , this will be set out on what is called the Underwriting sheet

 

if there is a secret commission then you can claim that back too as well as electing to rescind the contract as well, however that would not be necessary as the simple fact is that it is likely that the agreement would be declared unenforceable due to the number of defects within it

[pt2537]

I think your confused there AC, you seem to be thinking of 31.14&15

 

CPR 31.16 is Pre action ie before issue

[pt2537]

now youve got me interested here

 

 

there is a requirement of the Consumer Credit Agreement Regulations (schedule 1) that the agreement states the cash price of the vehicle, and also the deposit advanced, now it seems to me this is problematic with this agreement

 

Im betting that theres a undisclosed commission between carcraft and GE too, so we need the underwriting sheet here for this loan,

 

lemme get my lunch as its been a long day in court, then i will have a shufty at this

[pt2537]

nah thats plainly wrong

 

 

repayments do not equal total amount payable for the car for starters

[pt2537]

forget the finance invoice

 

its the agreement that counts

 

oh hell no you dont,

 

that is important evidence in this matter

[pt2537]

perfect evidence

 

also its misleading to the customer, on the invoice it suggests that the purchaser of the vehicle is the finance company, this is incorrect.

 

also the agreement itself has defects, when was it signed? what was the date?

 

and also can you please confirm for me if you handed over £2,500 and your car? when you purchased the car?

 

i have clients who have been subject to shall we say creative accounting to allow for a "better" car to be provided by fixing the the deposit, where you allegedly pay a high deposit, but in fact you dont pay anything

[pt2537]

Any ideas AA99?

 

im about for the next 30 mins then im off again til maybe the end of the week as i have some trials up coming and need to prepare

[pt2537]

absolutely! my sentiments!

 

 

 

The agreement was signed on 19 March 2006 and yes, we handed over the £2,500 deposit, I have the receipts, and they took our old car.

then the agreement should provide the correct figures, and it does not.

 

Car Craft who are consumer Credit licence holders, acted as agents of GE money here, therefore, the agreement should have been populated with the correct information. furthermore, im pretty sure that VAT is not payable on private car purchases, so i note they have charged VAT too and yet the invoice provides no such VAT payable

 

it seems to me that there are questions which need to be placed at Car Crafts door.

[pt2537]

thanks pt

 

ill go over the agreement again

 

aa

 

sending pm

 

realy need to get my eyes tested

 

We have a few cases on the lines of this case ongoing at the moment, hence why i am soo interested in this case here.

 

I will try to assist where i can but im keen not to put too much info on this thread where there are prying eyes lol

[pt2537]

gotcha

 

total amount payable on loan is £10394.06

not £12350.83

insurance total payable is £2667.24

not £3169.37

 

you have been done by £2500

no, total amount payable must include the deposit and costs of the finance,

[pt2537]

post,

 

just calm down on the figures,

 

what you need to do is work out firstly if the terms required by schedule 1 ,2 and 6 SI 1983/1553 are there

 

then when you have that part dealt with, look at the sums,

 

we need the amount of credit and repayments, these are the terms which cause fatal un-enforceability.

 

are the terms there? are they accurate?

 

then go from there, you are trying to run before you are walking mate, and you are going to get caught out if your not careful