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Parcel delivery insurance is prohibited under section 57 – Consumer Rights Act – Read about It Here and in The Times. ×


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    • Post in Suing a parcel delivery company when you don't have a direct contract with them – third-party rights Copy of judgment available

      BankFodder posted a post in a topic,

      We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

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      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Parcel delivery insurance is prohibited under section 57 – Consumer Rights Act – Read about It Here and in The Times.

MBNA won't accept written correspondence only...

lexis200

By lexis200
in MBNA

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Chalkitup

Chalkitup

Posted
Posted

Hello,

 

Not read your thread yet but I have had a quick look at your front page and it does not look right. Are they saying that is the whole front page as it was when you signed it??

I have MBNA docs from around 2000 (I believe this was 2001 .... is that correct?) and they all have the ref numbers at the bottom of the page right over to the left hand side ..... your NEPC01 ref number is out of place. As if the left hand column has been added!! Also when magnified the top line of print is uneven. Is there any chance of a better scan (when I magnify this present one I can not read it correctly) as I can not read certain parts that I believe will clear this matter up ... one way or the other.

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

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Chalkitup

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Posted
Posted
Hi Chalkitup

 

If the front page is ok, could I still rely on the terms being from the wrong period, seeing as they're pointed to several times in the terms bit on the left hand side, and the lack of a sig from them?

 

Thanks again

 

lexis

 

Hello Lexis200,

 

The prescribed terms seem to be in the column down the left hand side. Hence I do not think you would get far relying on the T&Cs they also sent being from the wrong period.

 

As for no signature ....... this is what peterbard recently wrote ....

 

The signatures on an agreement are not a prescribed term.

The absence of the creditors signature does not breach section 127 so can not be used to render the agreement automatically unenforceable.

Many people have tried to question the proper execution of the agreement under section 65 and 60 when there is no creditor’s signature, without success. It is unfortunately up to the court to decide in these cases.

If the creditor presents a signed (by the lender) document to the court, whether it is a copy or an original you still have the right to challenge its validity. The question is would the judge on waying the balance of probabilities believe you.

 

I am still looking into the frontpage they sent you as I have never seen one like that before and have asked hopeful1 to point me towards others to compare certain things.

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

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Chalkitup

Chalkitup

Posted
Posted
Hi Lexis. It is confusing. I've been around this site for over a year and i still don't understand everything!

 

You should be sent a copy of the origianl agreement which should be linked to the original t and cs. What is confusing with yours is that there are t and Cs on the side of the doc but they have sent additional t and cs that obviously aren't right. It's the bits down the side that is making it difficult for people to decide. From various people's experience in court, judge's are very unpredictable and we're all aware of that.

 

Hello,

 

Thank you Hopeful1 for the link in PM.

 

Lexis .... Sorry if I have confused you with my views but Hopeful1 is spot on with the above post. If it was not for the terms down the side of your "agreement" then you would be ok. But those terms on the left have the "prescribed terms" within them ... so if MBNA produced that in court and your argument was just about the other T&Cs being from the wrong time I believe you would be on a very sticky wicket.

However I am still looking into the front page they sent as when printed out on A4 it does not look correct. But that might just be my mistrust of MBNA.

If anyone else reading this has an "agreement" like the one Lexis has been sent please could they contact me.

 

Thanks

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

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Chalkitup

Chalkitup

Posted
Posted
Hello again:)

 

Just a quickie this time -

 

Do I have to get hubbie to put his actual signature on an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), or can I use the digital one I made up for him?

 

I know on the CCA request you don't have to give a specimen, but I don't know about this?

 

Thanks!

 

Hello Lexis,

 

This is a good point you have raised .....

 

Just recently if MBNA receive a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) they are very quick to point out Section 7(3) of the Data Protection Act 1998 .... which basically says MBNA should respond to your request when they have received the information necessary to fulfil the request. They then ask for a copy of your id ... copy of your driving licence / passport to show your signature.

 

Now a lot of people on here will say never give them a proper signature .... others slightly change the way they sign so they will realise if the signature has been copied and pasted .... Not that I am saying any company would do such a thing ..... However I do the following which makes it very difficult to copy and paste the signature .....

Firstly on the letter print a line as so ...

 

x_ _ _ # _ _ _ x _ _ _ # _ _ _ x

 

Then sign right across it.

 

The choice is yours .... but I am sure MBNA will ask for more id if you send a digital signature.

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

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Chalkitup

Chalkitup

Posted
Posted

Hello Lexis,

 

I am somewhat busy this evening but I am still looking into your "agreement".

 

I am waiting for another Cagger to come up with the exact same front page so I can just put my mind at ease that all is ok.

 

If it was me I would add about the T&Cs not being correct and as you say it will be another thorn in their side for a while.:-D

 

Thank you for the scales click .... very kind.

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

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Chalkitup

Chalkitup

Posted
Posted

Hello Lexis,

I have read the threads you mentioned and compared the application forms.

 

Plus I found the following on CAG the other week but can not find the link just now .......

An application form can be enforceable but it must contain the prescribed terms plus where the debtor has signed an application form it says “this is a credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974, sign only if you want to be legally bound by its terms”. - (the terms state in the consumer credit act 1974 that the agreement must have prescribed terms).

 

So again I think as I wrote before ..... that if it was not for the terms down the side of your "agreement" then you would be ok. But those terms on the left have the "prescribed terms" within them ... so if MBNA produced that in court and your argument was just about the other T&Cs being from the wrong time I believe you would be on a very sticky wicket.

 

As before ...... I am still looking into the front page they sent you ....... nothing to do with terms ... just want to satisfy myself that the left column has not been added at some stage.

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

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Chalkitup

Chalkitup

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hello Lexis,

 

Robinson Way are not just MBNA lackies ...... they are trying to take cash from me for a HSBC card account.

 

No enforceable agreement arrived yet from them so they are not getting paid !!

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

Edited by Chalkitup
Could not spell my own name!!!!!!
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