Debt Help

[KALLEY66]

Thanks Saintly

 

I will await them contacting me as I am not willingly contacting them as I have not heard from them since Dec 2005 when I moved from Scotland. Only contact I have had is from HFO about a debt with 3G that I had no idea about as I cancelled the mobile I had with them. I have informed HFO that I am disputing this and so far I have heard nothing back.

 

Kal

[KALLEY66]

Cancelled

Edited June 2, 2008 by KALLEY66
Not received any replies

[KALLEY66]

Moved to Debt collection industry threads

Edited June 2, 2008 by KALLEY66
No replies

[KALLEY66]

Hi All

 

Long story folks so I do apologize in advance

Back in 2004 I went guarantor for a mobile phone for a member of my family, 3G knew I was only guarantor because the person it was for did not have a bank account. This was stated clearly to them over the phone when I said ok to it. I was leaving Scotland and closing my bank account in 2005, so I cancelled the contract. Unknown to me I was billed at my old address after I moved. I did think myself everything was paid up to date. By seems of things 3G did not cancel the contract therefore a bill was run up and they are now chasing me for this debt.

I received a letter in from HFO services about an outstanding mobile phone bill. I asked for proof of this a few weeks ago, which they have sent to me in the form of the bills from 3G. Could anyone advice me on what I should do please. I am a single parent and CANNOT pay this amount. Anyway, why should I pay for something I did not use. Probably 3G will deny the fact I was only guarantor but I know differently and so does my family member it was for.

I would like to know where I stand legally with is. Is it a case of my word against 3G or is there anything I can do about this?

When I first spoke to someone from HFO they kept saying I would be taken to court and a CCJ would be enforced so I am panicking now. I do not understand the law and what everything he was saying to me means. He also said the repercussions would be bad if I do get taken to court.

After I was foolish enough to give him my mobile number I have since written to them telling them I will only respond to being written to at MY OWN address, as they sent the original first letter to a friend’s address. How they got that I will never know

Therefore I am now at a point where I do not know what to do. I would be very grateful for any help and advice anyone can give me or even tell me what I should do as I am not that good with all this stuff.

Many Thanks

Kal

[KALLEY66]

Hi All

 

Could anyone please advise me on how much you are allowed to put on your Personal Budget Planner sheet for each allowance? Or could you tell me where I can find out this information.

 

Kind Regrds

 

Kal

[chasin sunsets]

I am not sure about the cca as I don't think it is applicable to mobile phone companies...not 100% sure though, someone else may be on to offer more advice on the specifics. I would send a prove it letter to hfo and see what happens, then if a cca is valid then send one off to them..sorry cant be of more help.

[spamheed]

The first thing is not to panic, these "people" rely on scare tactics and threats to get you to pay money

 

Mobile phones are not covered by the CCA, but you are still entitled to have them prove that they have a right to collect the debt and that you are liable for it.

 

If the phone was taken out in your name and they have the agreement and/or statements which have been paid, and there is nothng in writing from them stating anything to the contrary then unfortunately it is very likely that you will be liable for the debt.

 

However the threats that they have been making against you are completely out of order. they do not decide how much you should pay, this is a matter for you and your budget. Even if the matter went to court, the judge would allow you to pay an amount that you can reasonably afford. If you wish to settle the debt It may be worth offering them £1 a month as a token payment, if they refuse, just send them the payment in anyway and if and when it does go to court, it will not look good for them for refusing your reasonable offer

 

only a court can issue a CCJ, send in the bailiffs or any other form of enforcement, DCA's can simply request money and if you don't pay, then they may take you to court, but only if they can prove your liability

 

Really, this is down to what you have in writing, telephone conversations are deniable, insist that all communications are made in writing, if they call you simply tell them "in writing only" then hang up. if they become persistent, send them the telephone harrassment letter from the templates library and request a copy of their complaints procedure.

 

If you feel that this has been helpful, please feel free to tip the scales

[KALLEY66]

Thank you both kindly.

 

Does this mean that they can send bailiffs to seize my goods for payment?

 

Do you think I should offer them £5 per month or ask them to write off this debt? Or could I go directly back to 3G?

 

Kal

[chasin sunsets]

They cannot send in baliffs without a court order and before this they need a valid cca or proof you owe the debt, it is up to them to prove you owe it...

[KALLEY66]

Thing is they have this proof as they could tell me the payments had been coming out my bank. Someone said previously that mobiles are not covered by CCA.

 

Any advice on what is best route for me to take? I am prepared to fight HFO but I do not know how to go about it.

 

Kal

[spamheed]

Thank you both kindly.

 

Does this mean that they can send bailiffs to seize my goods for payment? IF they take you to court and IF they win and IF the courts award them a CCJ and IF you default on the CCJ then they would need to take you back to court and the courts MIGHT enforce the CCJ with the bailiffs

as you can see, there are a lot of IF'S and a MIGHT, so nothing is as bad as it seems

 

Do you think I should offer them £5 per month or ask them to write off this debt? Or could I go directly back to 3G? If you can deal directly with 3 then this would freeze out the Debt Collector and this can only be a good thing no matter how loudly they squeal. if you can afford £5 a month, then this woukld be fine, they will tell you otherwise, but then they are trying to get as much as possible out of you. don't give their rants too much credance

 

Kal

 

 

Hope this helps

[KALLEY66]

Thanks Spam

 

Just had yet another call from HFO. Which I told them only to contact me in writing, already told them this by letter but they are obviously ignoring my request.

 

They said I cannot contact 3G as they have bought the debt from 3G.

 

You see I am disputing the amount they are chasing me for and the fact that I cancelled the contract with 3G. I was unaware of any bill sent to my old address, hence why this is a debt

 

Should I still contact 3G anyway or just keep dealing with HFO?

 

Kal

 

PS

 

Would I also be within my rights to ask HFO for a SAR? Or do they not have to produce this?

Edited June 2, 2008 by KALLEY66

[KALLEY66]

Hi All

 

Could anyone please provide me with a template letter requesting SAR? Not sure if it will be worth while sending it to DCA or not as I am not sure what the law is on this. If they are obligated to provide this or not

 

Should I still put on letter I do not acknowledge this debt and account in dispute?

 

Thanks

 

Kal

[chasin sunsets]

I believe an SAR once requested, all the conditions of this have to be sent to you. The fee for this is £10 though. A CCA is £1. I would send them a prove it letter before getting the SAR in. Up to you though..

[chasin sunsets]

Kalley66, here you go:

[your address]

 

 

 

[their address]

 

 

[DATE]

 

 

 

 

Data Protection Act 1998

Subject Access Request

 

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx (or multiple numbers if more than one account)

 

 

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my banking history with your organisation. Alternatively, a complete set of statements for that period will be acceptable.

 

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you.

 

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me, then I shall be reclaiming them, and also reclaiming the enclosed £10 Data Protection Act subject access request fee.

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

I would be happy to collect the Data from my local branch.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

[signature]

 

 

[name]

[KALLEY66]

Hi All

 

I have had calls from HFO telling me the debt in question has been bought by them so therfore I cannot contact 3G directly myself.

 

What I was thinking of doing was sending them a letter stating

 

1) I was disputing this

2) Was wanting a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)

3) Do not acknowledge the debt in question

 

It is for a mobile phone debt which I believe is not covered by CCA. They do have proof this exists because could tell me previous payments were coming from my bank account to 3G.

 

I recall cancelling the contract but never heard anything back from 3G as I moved from Scotland over 2 years ago and have never heard anything until now. I did not even know this supposedly debt existed.

 

Could anyone advise and help me out with a letter template please as I am hopeless putting thins into words as you may very well see from this already

 

Thanks

 

Kal

[KALLEY66]

Thank you both very kindly

 

What is a prove it letter and where can I obtain a copy to send?

 

Kal

[KALLEY66]

Who do I send the SAR to though? HFO say they have bought debt from 3G

[chasin sunsets]

Hi Kalley66, i have a prove it letter with a doorstep call reminder as well, will post it for you..i am sending 2 of these this afternoon after work.

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Account no:

 

You have contacted me regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself.

 

I would point out that I have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to your company.

 

I am familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

I would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

 

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

 

I would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my liability for the debt in question.

 

I await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions. Furthermore, should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Ever shed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

[KALLEY66]

Thank you so kindly Chasin. I do not know where I would be without this site and the kind and very helpful people on it

 

Kal

[chasin sunsets]

I have learnt so much since being on this site and it will help as its amazing the knowledge you gain, as we say at work, "if ever a day goes by when you do not learn something, then it's a wasted day"..lol..work in further and higher education btw!

[Hobbie]

Send them a prove it letter.

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Account no:

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

 

I/we would point out that I/we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (insert company name).

 

I am/we are familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

I/we would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

 

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

 

I/we would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my/our liability for the debt in question.

 

I/we await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.

 

I/we look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

 

(Your Name) Print do not sign

[schrodingers cat]

hi

i`m new to the forum so my knowledge is limited but what you have got to get into your head is these people will tell you anything to try and get as much out of you as poss.the first time i came here my head was a mess now a month on i`m armed and ready i`m even relishing the fight.anything you do first come here to get an opinion.one thing i`m dying to use is this;

 

Please note that I am *only* prepared to communicate with you in writing. Should it be your intention to arrange a "doorstep call", please remember that there is only an implied license under English Common Law for certain people to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.).

 

dont know how relevant it is

take care

S.C

[KALLEY66]

Thank you so kindly Hobbie

[KALLEY66]

Thanks again folks

 

However, HFO have said they have bought the debt so is it them I said a prove it letter to and SAR? They said their proof is the fact that I have previously been paying other bills from my bank account. Can I still get them to prove it? Or am I being out of order?

 

Advice please