Young persons rights as an employee, can an employer reduce the original agreed wage.

[roxi]

First of all Hi, I'm new to the forum as a poster although I have read loads of good advise on here over the months, so perhaps someone can help me.

 

I'm unsure of the law here,and would appreciate advise from someone that has expereience of employment law.

 

I have a son under 18, he has worked for a sole trader since September, part of his job involves getting on roofs. After the really strong winds a couple of months ago he was unsettled, his employer came to see us, told us he was completely satisfied with all other aspects of his work but was worried about this sudden not wanting to go on roofes.He said he had told him he would dock £100 off his wage each week if he didn't do it. He said to us he was going to do it for 2 weeks to see if it made a difference.We agreed to this as he said he didn't really want to do it but it might shock him into realising he had to do it. It did, the very next day my son got on the roofes and has done so since, only refusing when the employer leant a ladder up a chimney stack, and expected him to walk abot 6 foot past the top of the stack, he told him it was unsafe so refused to climb. Its now 8 weeks since he reduced his pay,and he still hasn't raised it back to the agreed £250 a week my son took the job on. I contacted him and he said he was still abit concerned he was still on reduced wages, he said he was OK on roofs but not on 3 storeys(my son said that was rubbish and he had been on 3 storeys fine) and would re-access in 1 month. I think this employer is totally taking the p***. Any ideas?

 

 

Just to add, apart from this he is breaking loads of working time regs, they worked about 20 days straight before christmas, no extra money. He hasn't given him a contract, and although he worked 3 weeks in hand at the beginning of his employer he told him he could sack him at any time because he hasn't gort a contract.He has to work bank holidays and he told him 16 year olds aren't allowed bank holidays. I would seriously like to tell him were to shove his job, but its my sons first job, he was earning good money and needs to save for his car insurance,phone etc, so can't just walk away, and as he just works for this man and not a company I want to be careful not to cause bad feeling towards my son.

He is employed, gets a wage slip, pays tax etc.

Also re holidays, his employer is taking a week off next week, obviously my son cannot work whilst he is off so his boss said that is one of his weeks holidays, my son doesn't really want this week off as he has nothing to do, can he force him to use a weeks holiday in this instance?

Thanks

[poppynurse]

I appreciate that you want to see your son in stable employment - good on him for wanting to work (lots of youngsters don't appear to want to round my way) but I would have concerns about your comments on this employer's approach to health and safety - I wouldn't want my under-18 on a three storey roof - has he got employers liability insurance?

 

Hopefully someone will be along with more knowledge on the legal side than me shortly.

[Sidewinder]

Poppynurse has said exactly what my first thoughts were...

 

As a parent, I would want to see evidence of risk assessments and relevant insurances. The employer has a clear legal obligation for all employees, but in particular where he employs young people.

 

As your son is under 18 he should not by law be working more than 8 hours a day, must have at least two days weekly rest and have a break of at least 30 minutes if working more than four and a half hours in a day. As with any employee, your son is entitled to 4.8 weeks holiday each year - sadly though your son cannot demand time off at a particular time (or refuse to be allocated holiday).

 

With regard to the lack of contract, your son was entitled to a written statement of primary Terms & Conditions after two months work. This has to include an agreed rate of pay, and the employer cannot just vary this at will without negotiation. Whilst you agreed to a temporary lowering of the rate, the fact that the employer has not increased it again as agreed is a worry, as what evidence is there that this was ever a temporary arrangement? You really need something in writing, but in any case should write to the employer and ask why the pay has not been increased again as per your conversation? Try to get something more formal that way.

 

The fact that there is no written contract does not allow the employer to sack your son 'as he has no contract'. A contract existed as soon as an offer was made and your son accepted terms verbally discussed by the action of starting work. The fact that there is nothing written however makes it harder to pursue matters relating to pay and conditions as there is no evidence to say exactly what was offered in the first place. Within 12 months of starting work though, the employer could dismiss your son with very little room for you to take action - only after 12 months is he protected from unfair dismissal except under certain conditions.

 

Personally I would encourage your son to start looking elsewhere - it seems from what you have said that he is unlikely to be treated fairly or with any great deal of respect for as long as he works for this man.

[roxi]

Thanks for advise so far. Re further help with leave. Last month his bosses wife had a baby, as a result the boss wanted to be with her so they did not work for 4 days, my son told me last night that he has been told that will come off his holiday, surely that can't be legal? How can he be made to use his holiday entitlement because his boss had a new child.

 

Last night there was further disagreement because my son is 17 on Saturday. originally he had asked for the weekend off but was told he could either choose Saturady or Sunday, he choose Sat, then this week his boss said they would have Weds,Thurs off, he said in that case can we work Thurs and have Sunday off instead (Sat is leave), his boss said he would see. Then last night he sent my son a text saying be in at 8am, my son text him back and said does that mean we have Sunday off. His boss text back NO in capitals, he then left him a voicemail telling him he was the boss and he would decide when they were having off and if he didn't come in on Sunday then not to bother coming in again.

 

I am certainly going to advise my son to look for work on his 'forced' holiday in 2 weeks, I am also going to seek legal advise I think. Are all employers like this, I'm a Civil Servant so its seems unreal to me as I pretty much please myself.

[patdavies]

Thanks for advise so far. Re further help with leave. Last month his bosses wife had a baby, as a result the boss wanted to be with her so they did not work for 4 days, my son told me last night that he has been told that will come off his holiday, surely that can't be legal? How can he be made to use his holiday entitlement because his boss had a new child.

 

 

Yes, an employer can dictate when an employee takes annual leave. How do you think factory shutdowns works; this is the same principle.

[roxi]

I can understand the need to take holidays at the same time when there are just the 2 of them working, but not when his bosses wife has a child, and not to be told a month later that that was your holiday, one of the days he text him to say they were working for 2 hours...now if thats supposed to be your leave you should be left in peace.

[bed32]

Yes, an employer can dictate when an employee takes annual leave. How do you think factory shutdowns works; this is the same principle.

He can do if it is stated in the contract. In the absence of a contract, or any other terms and conditions, I don't know how it would work but it may be regarded that that is standard practice in this industry so he would be okay on that one.

 

Note also that there are very specific regulations surrounding the protection of workers who raise concerns about Health and Safety Issues.

[Sidewinder]

I appreciate that it is a tricky situation, but this man cannot seriously expect to get away with this sort of treatment. He seems to have no regard for the welfare of your son, and is extremely unlikely to change. The lack of adequate rest should be a real concern - your son is expected to go onto roofs and up ladders without having had the rest period to which he is legally entitled. As a 16 or 17 year old he has to have at least two rest days each week and there are strict limits on what he can be expected to do. HERE and HERE are two illustrations.

 

I am pleased that you are going to encourage your son to look elsewhere and hope that he is successful.