Egg credit card agreement terminated

[Decanus]

Hi toymaker,

 

I did actually query that exact point, as per the previous chatter in the thread, and Egg never addressed the point. I was given a standard 'its all covered by the terms and conditions, so there'. I have quibbled over this for several weeks, and now they have decided to issue a default against me.

 

I was wondering if I should challenge the right to issue a default as, if they have terminated our card agreement before issuing a default, then how can they issue a default on the agreement now?

 

is my position weaker now that they have issued a default, as they can say 'well, you now have a default', or is the fact they have issued it now, rather than then, more relevant because any action taken after ending our agreement is invalid.

 

Just out of interest, why has no-one challenged this in court? it does seem there is a case there...are you still in discussion with them?

 

Ta

[toymaker1]

Egg never addressed the point. I was given a standard 'its all covered by the terms and conditions, so there'. Ta

Hello Decanus

As I said, my own experience is that Egg will not address the point. The terms and conditions which Egg tell you cover everything are themselves covered by thAct if they terminate your account when you are not in default, and without Egg complying with Sections 86 and 87. As I said in my previous post, if Egg, by it's own choice, terminates the contract between you (which includes your liability to pay the money you owe to Egg) when you have not defaulted on the agreement, then that is Egg's free choice. - By that action Egg has chosen to cancel/write off your liability to Egg under the contract between Egg and you - which Egg has terminated. If Egg subsequently claims that you still owe them money, Egg would clearly have to use the law to recover that money. Ask Egg which law Egg would use. So far as I can see Egg would have no law available to it. If Egg tried to claim the money under CCA1974, Egg would find that Egg was in breach of that Act. As I said previously, you should ask Egg under which law does Egg intend to recover the money? I think the saying is, that Egg has been hoisted by it's own petard!

now they have decided to issue a default against me. if they have terminated our card agreement before issuing a default, then how can they issue a default on the agreement now? Ta

That is exactly the crux of the matter. Egg clearly cannot give you a default notice after Egg has terminated the agreement! If Egg thinks it can, ask them under which section of which law is Egg acting?

 

[quote=Decanus;1573381is my position weaker now that they have issued a default, or is the fact they have issued it now, rather than then, more relevant because any action taken after ending our agreement is invalid.

 

Just out of interest, why has no-one challenged this in court? it does seem there is a case there...are you still in discussion with them?

 

Ta Personally, I am not intending to take Egg to court, but I have informed Egg that if Egg takes me to court I will draw the Court's attention to all the relevant factors, and that I would also ask the court to make an order under S140 of CCA relating to unfair business relationships, quite apart from Egg's serious breaches of CCA1974.

[Decanus]

thanks again Toymaker. I especially like the last bit about unfair practices, may site that myself if you don't mind.....

 

will be drafting up a letter to them tonigh, so if you have any tasty nuggets of info you think I should throw in, let me have 'em....!!

[toymaker1]

if you have any tasty nuggets of info you think I should throw in, let me have 'em....!!

Hello Decanus

Using the Egg secure email facility on the Egg website you could send to Egg an email on the following lines. If you do, post Egg's reply on this site. - I am assuming that Egg terminated your agreement when you were not in default.

"Dear Sir/Madam

 

I would be grateful if Egg would indicate to me the relevant section of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 which provides Egg with the legal entitlement to terminate my Egg credit card agreement as from (insert date - it might have been 6 March 2008 for example)."

 

I would be interested to see what Egg has to say!

 

regards.

[Decanus]

Toymaked, I was indeed not in default before they terminated my agreement. Rather suspiciously, its been since.....

 

I have, though, fired off an email to Egg and we'll see if it boils or fries them....

[RubyRose]

Decanus,

How can they threaten to terminate an already terminated account as this is one of the things they say they are going to do in their default notice served on me. I basically wipe the floor with them.

 

I think we should all carry out a class action aginst them.

Ruby

[steven4064]

I think we should all carry out a class action aginst them.

Something along the lines of St Trinians 5th form

[oggy1]

now citi own egg and here is an interesting point,

i claimed and won charges back from citi and then i had a notice like the egg one of termination of my card.

i used your information toymaker and sent it of to them .

2 days ago i recieved a reply , they are pleased to inform me my new citi card is on its way and sorry for any inconvenience caused.

the question now , do i want it anyway.

[steven4064]

the question now , do i want it anyway.

Perhaps read some citi threads before you decide

[Decanus]

Hi guys,

 

RubyRose, thats the problem I think we are all struggling with. Despite several attempts, Egg never respond to any direct questions about the vailidity of the agreement termination, and then my specific query on how they can serve a default notice on an account that they had already effectively terminated. They are serving a default on a termineted account, are they not?

As Toymaker has been saying, they fail to reveal under what specific part of the CCA they are entitled to terminate an account without serving a default first.

 

Does the fact they are keeping silent on all this reflect on their not wanting it to be taken to court for a test case? is it just typical Egg unhelpfulness?

 

My amateur guess is that they are not 100% certain of their position, because they would have thrown the relevant legislation at us. I think they terminated without default undersome 'implied' term, but not a definite one. If thats the case, its challengeable, and Egg do not want 161,000 people going to court, do they.....!!

[toymaker1]

Despite several attempts, Egg never respond to any direct questions about the vailidity of the agreement termination,

 

Decanus,

Have you had a response yet from Egg to the email you sent yesterday?

Egg states on it's website that it will respond within 24 hours to email enquiries.

 

Regards

[RubyRose]

Well i think we should gather together as many of us as possible who have been affected in this manner and carry out a single lawsuit aginst them and get some form of compensation.

Ruby

[dbairduk]

Just getting the interest frozen would be enough for me!

[Mistermind]

Just getting the interest frozen would be enough for me!

 

Getting interest frozen would seem hard to justify, after all there is a debit balance outstanding.

 

However Egg are continuing to charge 2%+ per month interest -- a level of interest which is par for credit cards, but far higher than for bank loans. As 161,000 cardholders are now effectively holding in their hands a loan without the privileges and convenience of plastic, it is arguable tit for tat, that the exhorbitant credit card interest rate should be revised to match market loan interest rates.

 

Nobody creditworthy enough to merit a cc would take on a one-off bank loan without top-up facilities, charging 2%+ debit interest per month.

[dbairduk]

i know what you mean about owing the debt, but where else is this thread going? There must be some goal at the end of it?

[steven4064]

i know what you mean about owing the debt, but where else is this thread going? There must be some goal at the end of it?

It does seem to have got a bit lost. Perhaps, Toymaker, you could review where you think you have got to and what you hope to achieve.

[toymaker1]

It does seem to have got a bit lost. Perhaps, Toymaker, you could review where you think you have got to and what you hope to achieve.

Hello steven

You may recall that on 19th June (taking into consideration that Decanus was not in default when Egg terminated his/her account) I suggested a draft of an email Decanus might wish to send to Egg via Egg's secure email facility available to account holders, asking Egg to indicate to Decanus which part of the CCA 1974 provided Egg with the legal entitlement to terminate Decanus's credit card agreement. On 20th June I asked Decanus if he/she had sent the email yet, and what was Egg's response. Maybe Decanus then went on holiday, as their has not yet been a response on this from Decanus. The interesting bit comes when Egg provides it's response to such an email - If Decanus sent it.

 

I was in a similar situtation to Decanus (i.e. termination without deafault) and I sent just such an email. What it revealed was that Egg have not got a clue about the law which governs the activities of credit card companies.

Following a careful reading of CCA 1974 I cancelled my £300 a month direct debit to Egg and,in so many words, said to Egg, I'll see you in court. Fortunately, Eggs unlawful termination of accounts coincided with the introduction of CCA 2006, which greatly strengthens the card holder's rights under S140 of CCA 1974 (unfair business practices etc.).

 

Egg very quickly passed my account to Capquest debt recovery, but this will not help Egg, because despite Egg's bluster and fear tactics Egg cannot make an unlawful act lawful just by shuffling papers about and sending formal looking demands for payment.

I look forward to Decanus's news about Egg's response to his/her email. We can have a look from thereon. I will be quite happy to set out my own experiences on this. Or answer any questions from others in this similar situtation.

Regards.

[dbairduk]

Sounds risky toymaker, but of course I wish you the best of luck.

I suppose at the worst you could get a ccj from them. Have they issued a default notice to you regarding the account?

[toymaker1]

Sounds risky toymaker, but of course I wish you the best of luck.

I suppose at the worst you could get a ccj from them.

Hello dbairduk

You are quite right to point out that the very worst that can happen to anyone acting as I have in this situation is a CCJ. That is to say, in my own case I would have had at least several months, possibly more than a year, of repayments "holiday", then an arrangement to repay (with no interest) a lower monthly amount than I had been paying before I cancelled a £300 direct debit. (i.e. the court would take my detailed financial circumstances into account in a way which companies like Egg do not, and will accept a reasonable offer - for example £150 per month). In addition, the court would, as a part of the court action, take into consideration the conduct of Egg, particularly in terms of CCA 1974 as amended in debtor's favour by CCA 2006. That would certainly affect the outcome of any court action, including the possibility of an order against Egg made by the court under S140 of CCA 1974. Which is why I do not think Egg would take the matter to court, after getting proper legal advice - which so far Egg does not appear to have had.

 

Have they issued a default notice to you regarding the account?

This is one of the central points in this situation. I did not receive a default notice, because I was not in default. Egg just decided to terminate my agreement! That is not permitted under CCA 1974. If Egg wish to terminate a credit card agreement, Egg must comply with the provisions of CCA 1974 (S86/87). It is that simple.

Egg made matters legally worse for itself by giving me a default notice AFTER Egg had terminated my account!

Ask yourself how Egg could explain such an incompetent and illogical and unfair action to a court. Egg would surely have egg all over it's face!

 

Regards

[dbairduk]

Hi toymaker I ment have you received a default since you refused to pay egg after your agreement was terminated? Have you checked your credit file? And also are they still adding interest to your account?

[toymaker1]

Hi toymaker I ment have you received a default since you refused to pay egg after your agreement was terminated? Have you checked your credit file? And also are they still adding interest to your account?

 

Hello dbairduk

 

Sorry I didn't make myself clear. Yes, I have received a default notice since I refused to make any more direct debit repayments to Egg. As I said previously, this was after Egg had terminated my agreement.

I have not checked my credit rating. My own expericence is that it is not as important as one might think. What I mean is, my experience has been that if companies want to lend you money they will, regardless of your credit rating - I believe it's called irresponsible lending. On the other hand, if your credit rating is excellent, it is no guarantee that you can get a loan. It seems to depend on the current trading and market conditions so far as the lender is concerned.

 

Yes, In theory Egg have been adding daily interest. But, as I have said earlier, Egg has acted completely outside the provisions of CCA 1974, and would have to answer for that to the court if Egg took it to court.

 

As a result of my experiences with Egg, I had a look at the Terms and conditions of other credit card companies. I discovered that virtually all of them have T and C's which are not consistent with the regulations provided in CCA 1974. For example, they nearly all state in their C and C's that the company can terminate the agreement at any time. That is completely outside anything permitted by CCA 1974. I am amazed such things have never been challenged by Office of fair Trading, financial Ombudsman Service, bank of England, British banking Association, Citizens advice Bureau, and the other bodies which are supposed to stand up for consumer legal rights.

I am standing up for myself, because I know for sure that Egg has acted unlawfully by terminating my agreement when I was not in default.

 

Of course, there is another take on this which is equally valid. One can say that it is within Egg's rights for Egg to terminate the agreement between Egg and a card holder even though the cardholder is not in default of the agreement . - the difficulty for Egg is that in terminating the agreement when there is no default Egg is also abandoning it's right to any outstanding money which may still be owed to Egg by the card holder. By voluntarily terminating an agreement with no default, Egg are ending all liabilities to Egg which existed under the agreement. - There is nho longer an agreement which is governed by CCA 1974. I hope that is clear.

Regards

[jannercobbler]

Well I have requested charges back from Egg and they have responded with termination of my account

 

Although they have not issued me with a default notice either. so will follow this thread with interest.

 

I have asked them to clarify the CCA 1974 section that allows them to terminate my account ask toymaker asked and will let people know if they respond.

[toymaker1]

Well I have requested charges back from Egg and they have responded with termination of my account

 

Although they have not issued me with a default notice either. so will follow this thread with interest.

 

I have asked them to clarify the CCA 1974 section that allows them to terminate my account ask toymaker asked and will let people know if they respond.

 

Hi jannercobbler

 

From what you have said, it appears that Egg have terminated your agreement unlawfully.(i.e. outside the provisions of CCA 1974)

 

In my opinion, you have done absolutely the correct thing by asking Egg to clarify to you the CCA 1974 section that allows Egg to terminate your account. Egg's response should be very interesting to read. When I sent the same sort of enquiry to Egg, their response clearly indicated that Egg have no clear knowledge of the laws which govern creditor/debtor relationships, and more specifically, Egg was shown to have no clear knowledge of CCA 1974 with regard to credit card agreements.

 

Egg states that it responds to email enquiries within 24 hours, so I look forward by Monday or Tuesday to seeing what Egg says to you in response to your legitimate enquiry.

 

regards

[jannercobbler]

Will let you know when I have an answer

[jannercobbler]

Deleted

Edited June 28, 2008 by jannercobbler
Double posting