Sharpman v Nationwide credit card services ***WON WITH WASTED COSTS***

[out of cash]

hi creditcardmug,

 

i understand exactly what you are getting at here i produced this case and the wilson one plus stuff from goode consumer law and practice this is the metality we are all going to have to deal with some how.

 

the agreement is the document the 2 pages are the document,the 2 pages are the agreement i know to most on here this should sound totaly mental but try getting this through this judges thick skull is a major task in its self i am going to have to think quick on another argument didnt even seem to bother about any docs ref to in the agreement even though they have been requested many times seems like its no big deal for this judge

this is going to go to a full trial and the costs for me if i lose are above 10k so i really need help bigtime from someone.

 

you can imagine how i am banging my head against a brick wall:D

 

regards ooc

[creditcardmug]

ooc, is yours the NW one in your other thread, i opened it but too small to read,

Did they produce the original in court? or if not are they saying page 2 is the other side of p1?

Does it say on p1 that the prescribed terms are overleaf or somewhere else?

Does p1 refer to p2 at all?

 

Is your DN valid?

 

Just thinking out loud trying to find something here.

[out of cash]

hi creditcardmug,

 

yes mine is the one no one can read mine is in another thread somewhere sorry to be vague it refers in the sig doc to i have read and understood the terms dosent say where they are located at all also pointed this out to the judge

 

"terms and cons" although mine just says terms.i even quoted in court the other day a para from goode law and practice says something like terms cannot just be implied in sig doc they have to be crystal clear to their location and judge just turned around and said as far as he is concerned the way they a ref to is how goode intended just cant believe how thick he was its nothing like goode refers to how they should be found.

 

regards

 

ooc

[creditcardmug]

Hi sharpman checkout the draft directions in my thread post 81, its giving you the opportunity to amend your defence in the light of full disclosure of docs,

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/126560-nationwide-kpr-cca-request-5.html

[creditcardmug]

hi creditcardmug,

 

yes mine is the one no one can read mine is in another thread somewhere sorry to be vague it refers in the sig doc to i have read and understood the terms dosent say where they are located at all also pointed this out to the judge

 

"terms and cons" although mine just says terms.i even quoted in court the other day a para from goode law and practice says something like terms cannot just be implied in sig doc they have to be crystal clear to their location and judge just turned around and said as far as he is concerned the way they a ref to is how goode intended just cant believe how thick he was its nothing like goode refers to how they should be found.

 

regards

 

ooc

 

It sounds like your just not going to get anywhere with that judge on this point, its bad enough that the pres terms arent on the sig page, but the page not even having reference to where they are is even worse.

in my opinion i just dont see how a set of terms they may come up with can be linked to that original document.

 

Is there any milage in aguing the validity of the DN, and putting them to strict proof they sent it?

 

 

Is there any reason why they cant produce the original pages 1&2?, because if not you would require proof from a witness that page 2 was destroyed, and if copied, when and by what means, this being the only way anyone can be sure that their "page 2" is in fact part of the original document. The witness would have to appear in court or sign an affdavit to say he witnessed the destruction and subsequent copying of said doc.

 

Theres a couple of threads on this here but i dont know where yet.

Edited September 27, 2008 by creditcardmug

[SharpmanTF1]

Ok, update,

 

Recieved 'Standard order for stay for settlement with consent of all parties'

 

District judge ******* orders that this claim is stayed until 23 oct 2008 to enable parties to attempt settlement.

 

on or before 06 nov 2008 one of the following steps must be taken:

 

either

 

the claimant must notify the court that the whole of the claim has been settled (see note i below)

 

or

 

the claimant or defendant must write to the court requesting an extension of the stay period, explaining the steps taken

towards settlement and identifying any mediator, expert or other person helping with the process. the letter

should confirm the agreement of all other parties ( see note ii below)

 

or

 

all parties must file a completed AQ at the court. Where a settlement of some of the issues in dispute has been reached,

a list of those issues should be attached to the completed AQ. the list must be agreed with the other parties and must indicate that

it has been agreed.

 

dated 25 sept 2008

 

Note (i) Where settlement of claim is achieved before end of stay period the following will be taken to include an application for the stay to be lifted:

(a) an application for a consent order to give effect to the settlement

(b) an application for approval of a settlement where one or more parties is a person under a disability : and

© the filing of a notice of acceptance of monies paid into court, or an application to accept monies paid into court out of time.

 

Note (ii): extensions to the period of stay will generally be no more than 1 month

 

 

Ok,

 

Could someone advise what my next steps should be.

Is there anything I should be doing, are there any letters that i could be sending to claimant, or should I just wait for them to contact me?

 

What happened to draft order sent in with AQ, does that not come into effect until the actual hearing/court appearance?

 

Can I use this period to gather more documentary information from claimant or is this not allowed.

 

all advice appreciated.

 

Thanks

Sharpman.

[SharpmanTF1]

 

Recieved the above letter from the claimants sols.

 

The last paragraph is what i need some advice on.

 

Clearly the stay is for the claimant and defendant to try and work stuff out.

Now, should I respond to this letter in any way, if so what does anybody suggest.

I don't want the claimant to use a non response as ammunition against me stating i'm being obstructive.

 

Clearly they don't have an enforceable properly executed document.

how would I state that unless they can produce a legal, properly executed aggreement there is no other option for them

but to cease proceedings and zero the account.

 

obviously they're not going to go for that but It may show that they are trying to bring a claim with out

legally supporting documentation.

 

They've also changed Sols as the correspondence i'm getting is from a different person. They've gone from female to male sol.

 

sharpman

[SharpmanTF1]

bump

[SharpmanTF1]

Bump ...... anybody

[creditcardmug]

Well for starters since the case hinges on whether or not they have valid docs, i think it would be a good idea to write to them to ask for copies of the same. This time a valid agreement containing the prescribed terms and your signature,

Also a valid DN and proof of posting.

 

And a full and complete statement of account from the start of agreement to the present in order that you can see if there have been any unfair penalty charges added.

 

And pointing out that you have to have sight of these before the case can progress further.

[SharpmanTF1]

I've already sent a CPR 18 to them,

Got back the 'Application form', No T&Cs, statements going back to 7 months shy of the account start. Think they've just gone back 6 years.

 

Their answer to a D/N copy request was met with a "client does not keep copies and does not have proof of posting"

 

That's by the by because I managed to find a copy of the D/N, not laid out in prescribed manner.

 

Could I just be pedantic and request these again just to p**s them off.?

 

sharpman

[1stlifeline]

Hi Sharpman,

 

With mine at this point I just wrote to say that I was 'not being obstrutive (as they accused me in the letter they sent) but that if they could provide me with a fully enforceable CCA we would be able to move forward'. I got back another letter pretty much stating the same thing- What is your offer? I repeated my -Produce an enforceable CCA and we will take it from there letter.

Its stalemate at the moment.

[SharpmanTF1]

Thanks 1st,

 

I'l get one of them off to them tomorrow.

 

What's annoying is that I was happily paying them £40.00 per month as that was al I could afford. Then they decided to be greedy and told me they were going for a charging order. well that was that - fighting talk .......

 

So, they only have themselves to blame when it goes pete tong for them.

 

Sharpman.

[SharpmanTF1]

ok peeps, a little advice needed.

 

the stay runs out on 23rd Oct (6Days). have not heard anything from claimant since 30th September.

 

I have until 6th November to reply to court.

 

what should I be doing now. As it stands, they have not supplied any further documentary evidence to back up their claim.

There's still no sign of the D/N which has been mentioned in the POC (although I do have a copy which I found in my files)

they have previously stated no copies available.

 

Obviously I don't require an extention of the stay (?) or do I ?

It then says or file a completed AQ at court. Another one?

 

would I just resend the original or do I need to adjust it in any way ?

 

times a ticking - help and advice appreciated.

 

 

TIA

[SharpmanTF1]

bump

[SharpmanTF1]

ok, stay runs out in 3 days time.

 

how would I go about making an application for an order for disclosure. will this cost me anything? or is it along the lines of a cpr request, yet again?

 

is there a court form that I can use to do this.

 

help please - clocks ticking

[SharpmanTF1]

bump

[SharpmanTF1]

bump for pt if he's lookining in

[SharpmanTF1]

bump - stay ran out today. what, if anything should I be doing before 6 November.?

 

Anybody

[MARTIN3030]

You will need to file on notice-N244 and yes there is a charge unless advised otherwise.You can attatch a draft asking the Judge to consider ordering disclosure.

Theres templated stuff for this-obviously depending on what you want to ask for.

[SharpmanTF1]

Ok, i'll give the n244 a miss - don't have the funds to pay for it.

 

Docs they have supplied after request are 7mths shy of 6 years statements, 1x 'Priority Application' - they state they don't have copy of D/N. think that would be sufficient for case so far.

 

Any ideas as to course of action prior to 6th nov when DJ has ordered a response to the court.

[SharpmanTF1]

ok, no contact from Claimant. stay ended 23 october.

 

what if anything will happen now.

 

I have to send another AQ to court by 06th November.

 

What, does anybody suggest that I put in this AQ, bearing in mind nothing has changed since I sent my last AQ in.

 

should i just duplicate it and send that in?

 

obviously i need to impress upon the courts that they haven't been forthcoming with a valid agreement/Default Notice.

 

sharpman.

[SharpmanTF1]

bump

[SharpmanTF1]

Ok, some good news I think .......

 

recieved from the claimant

 

without prejudice save as to costs

 

we don't admit we're wrong but we aint gunnin' for you any more on a comercial basis.

 

consent order enclosed -

 

need some advise as to what this means

 

1. all further proceedings in this claim be stayed except for the purpose of carrying such terms in effect (what are the saying here)

 

2. the parties have liberty to apply to carry such terms into effect (huh, what are they saying here)

 

3. there be no order as to costs ( again, what are they saying here.)

 

i'm a bit dubious as to what i'm consenting to.

 

any hints.

[steven4064]

I think it means that the case is over exept that either party can go back to the court if the other side doesn't fulfil their side of the agreement. And there are no costs.