Sharpman v Nationwide credit card services ***WON WITH WASTED COSTS***

[SharpmanTF1]

bump 43 and 45

[pt2537]

ok 43 looks fine

 

45

 

Yes the words which you have highlighted are correct, the paper version of the regs have it exactly that laid out in them

 

the problem is that the regs in the electronic form are slightly incorrect

 

you can purchase the originals from the TSO i think they cost £6.00 but i have hard copies and electronic ones just so that we are covered on everything

[SharpmanTF1]

Thanks PT.

 

Right I think I have everything ready.

 

When sending documents in with AQ do I also need to send full copies of relevant cases that are mentioned in my defence and Other information sheet.?

 

The court that is handling this case is a few miles from me, so I can file on the day. What is the concencus of opinion of when to send the stuff to the claimant. is it better later rather than earlier so as to put them under pressure to action anything that may have been raised in my AQ.

 

Sharpman.

[GuidoT]

Thanks PT.

 

Right I think I have everything ready.

 

When sending documents in with AQ do I also need to send full copies of relevant cases that are mentioned in my defence and Other information sheet.?

 

The court that is handling this case is a few miles from me, so I can file on the day. What is the concencus of opinion of when to send the stuff to the claimant. is it better later rather than earlier so as to put them under pressure to action anything that may have been raised in my AQ.

 

Sharpman.

 

I removed your bumps to make your thread easier to read (you will be CAGBotted)

 

No requirement to send documents referred to in the defence with AQ, that comes later in the bundle.

 

Just seeing if I can find out what the Other information sheet is?

[GuidoT]

I see that the Other information is the reference to section H of N150.

 

Do you rely on any other documentation within your AQ that the judge should consider when allocating to a track or the future case management? If yes (e.g. draft directions) then include them copies with the AQ. I have not had the time to go back over your entire thread.

[SharpmanTF1]

Thanks GuidoT

 

The only other documentary evidence is the 'Application form' and A Default Notice issued - Suspect Not in the correct format.

 

Would I send this with the AQ.

 

Sharpman

[GuidoT]

I have looked back now.

 

In post 43 you refer to a HL case, I would include the first page of that judgement and the paragraph you are relying on. These judgements tend to be long, if short include it all.

 

This thread is really in the wrong place, I will move it. This might be why you have not received help so quickly.

Edited September 15, 2008 by GuidoT

[GuidoT]

Have a read of this.

 

I realise that you may have seen some of it already.

[SharpmanTF1]

Ok, emailed my AQ to claimant, hard copy to follow.

Court copies will be in later on today.

 

Should the Claimant have sent me any thing ie a copy of the n150?

 

Sharpman.

[GuidoT]

They are not required to send you copy, but out of courtesy they can send one (as you have).

[SharpmanTF1]

They are not required to send you copy, but out of courtesy they can send one (as you have).

 

somehow don't expect courtesy is in their vocabulary.

 

What sort of timescale are we looking at for a response from the courts as to the next step?

 

Or is there no set timescale.

 

Sharpman.

Edited September 17, 2008 by SharpmanTF1
spelling

[SharpmanTF1]

Ok, Got the claimants AQ back yesterday.

 

this is the letter accompanying it.

 

 

and this is a copy of thier draft directions

 

 

I see they are trying for multi track.

what implications are there for me on this one.

They're saying they need a whole day.

have put costs of almost 2/3rds of the original credit card debt.

I'm assuming thats the reason for multi track because I think I

read somewhare that small claims track is restricted on what

costs you can claim. or maybe i read it wrong.

 

Also, could someone advise on what they are asking in point 3.

Surely they're not asking me to sit on my thumbs for a month.

isn't the stay period for preparing case etc?

 

Sharpman.

[pt2537]

they are trying the multi track?

 

What is the amount of the claim? is it above £15K?

[SharpmanTF1]

PT

 

The claim is for £9774.13

but in their AQ that they sent they have not filled in a figure - they've just put in ALL. then in costs they've put £500 + vat + disb to date and estimated costs of £6000 + vat + disb.

 

the original 9774.13 was the credit card debt plust court fees etc.

 

Sharpman

[pt2537]

Ball Hooks!!!!!!!!!

 

They are talking out their butt-ox if they think its worthy of Multi Track

[SharpmanTF1]

PT

 

A quick Q, in part d of N150 - Case management info, in the witnesses Box they've put 'to be confirmed'

 

in Section E - trial or final hearing

 

Availability

 

they've just 'put to be confirmed'

 

is this allowed?

 

Are they going to miraculously produce witnesses when the time comes?

 

Sharpman

[out of cash]

hi Sharpman

 

good luck with these brstrds they are the worse i am having my 3rd hearing this week hopefully it will be my last very bang your head against a brick wall with these given em all the case law under the sun but they never back down mine is the application form argument.

 

good luck gain

 

ooc

[creditcardmug]

I think the judge is unlikely to allocate the multi-track, more likely fast track as its under 10k

[SharpmanTF1]

hi Sharpman

 

good luck with these brstrds they are the worse i am having my 3rd hearing this week hopefully it will be my last very bang your head against a brick wall with these given em all the case law under the sun but they never back down mine is the application form argument.

 

good luck gain

 

ooc

 

Thanks OOC

 

That's the route i'm taking.

As you've had a few run ins with them,

what is their likely plan of action,

what points are they going to bring up,

how are they arguing the application, no terms approach?

 

 

Any heads up appreciated.

 

Sharpman

[out of cash]

hi Sharpman,

 

they will argue any point they can possibly find to benefit them i sent a cca request back in june 07 they sent application form without any prescribed terms then a couple of months later sent set of prescribed terms on 2nd doc if it refers to the terms in the sig doc i think this can be valid although i think it has to refer to where they are located? will let everyone know how i get on this fri i have asked for their case to be struck out as no default notice sent,no cancellation rights and for them to prove that the terms on page 2 are those which are referred to in page one its a real head ache and has really taken its toll on me i can tell you.

highly unlikely they will be calling any witnesses,one thing i can tell you is they love to play the moral high ground like you've had the money the statements show it so give us it, unfortunately if the banks hadn't been so greedy and completely un sympathetic to peoples life changing events loss of job etc people might not use this part of the law to protect them-selfs its a 2 way street but they only see it one way.

 

all the best:)

 

occ

[SharpmanTF1]

Yes OOC i see what you mean. I requested cca they sent the 'application form' but no terms and conditions sheet. Requested twice. once under CCA and again under CPR. both times they failed to provide T&C sheet. Sounds like it's going to be a rough journey.

 

Sharpman

[out of cash]

Hi Sharpman,

 

just make sure when they again realise that they need the prescibed terms that your signiture document refers exactly to the terms that they will be photocopying off, mine just says you have read and understood the terms of this agreement .ive asked them to prove that i was signing to these terms in the attached 2nd document which curiously enough is a different size photo copy than from page 1 just give them hell its real easy to give in but we cant be blamed for the useless document retention policys which look really sloppy:D

 

regards

 

ooc

[SharpmanTF1]

ooc

 

just make sure when they again realise that they need the prescibed terms that your signiture document refers exactly to the terms that they will be photocopying off, mine just says you have read and understood the terms of this agreement .ive asked them to prove that i was signing to these terms in the attached 2nd document which curiously enough is a different size photo copy than from page 1 just give them hell its real easy to give in but we cant be blamed for the useless document retention policys which look really sloppy

 

point noted. My document is, i think a different 'application form' than the

one i saw posted on your thread. I don't think they have a hope in hell of

producing as the 'aggreement' that I recieved looks like a microfiche printout.

The document consists of one 2 column page. none of the prescribed terms

are written anywhere 'within the four corners' of the signature document.

 

I've looked through the document and it refers to the 'conditions' not 'terms

and conditions' it does not say where these 'conditions' are, just that

'.....which I have read, will apply.' So I'm hoping that they don't try buls**t

tacticks to confuse the issue when it comes down to the hearing.

 

I was reading a document on the courts website that the 'parties are

supposed to liase when filling out AQs, not heard from claimant since the

N150 was sent to me. Only contact was the letter as per several posts back.

 

What are your thoughts on point 3 of the letter that the claimants sol. sent

to me.

 

Whilst all this is going on, am I entitled to make requests from the other

party. I made a cpr request when this all kicked off, but they didn't fully

comply. I didn't put this down in my defence, is it to late to bring this up

if/when a hearing is set.

 

Sharpman.

[out of cash]

hi sharpmantf1,

 

i would only comply with what the court asks and take no notice from their sols if you have any doubts about the overall status of the case just give the court manager a call they are usually quite helpfull.regarding the terms and cond i even quoted in court the other day a para from goode law and practice says something like terms cannot just be implied in sig doc they have to be crystal clear to their location in doc judge disagreed and said it was his understanding that by the document with prescribed terms being refered to via the sig doc is exactly how goode meant which it most def isnt need a legal eagle to put me straight on this.

 

regards

 

ooc

[creditcardmug]

The judge obviously hasn't read the words of Tuckey LJ who said,

 

"all terms should be in a single document, and backed up by the provisions of s127(3), ensure that these core terms are expressly set out in the agreement itself, they cannot be orally agreed;they cannot be found in another document;they cannot be implied;and above all they cannot be in the slightest mis-stated. As a matter of policy, the lender is denied any room for manoeuvre in respect of them"