How to get out of an IVA - urgent help needed

[Goldlady]

We are now up to four creditors without CCAs. The latest one said that they were not obliged to send a copy of the CCA with a SAR and asked for a further £1 so they could send us an example of what the CCA would have looked like if they actually had it:eek:.

 

Looking good but still not sure how to convey this to the IP.

[bizzib]

This is interesting as I calculated I have a total of £17,000 worth of PPI's in my IVA and If this was all unenforceable there would be virtually nothing in the IVA, what would happen then??

 

Bizzi:confused:

[Goldlady]

Hmmm that is interesting. I suppose your next step would be to challenge the PPI and ask for it to be refunded to the accounts, together with the interest you have been charged on it.

 

Wonder if the IP should have considered that? One of the reasons I started to question my friends' debts was that one of them had increased the o/s balance by 3k after the creditors meeting:eek:

[bizzib]

I am starting to think the same thing was done with mine also as one of the creditors came back with revised figures last year taking into account Bank charges I had refunded in May 08. They were still claiming against that account even though the account as in credit due the 3k credited back in charges. Crooks!

[StinkyFeet]

I had the same issue when my IVA was active, and even though all was raised with my IP, all I got back was either no reply or a one worded answer. He kept throwing the 'I'll make you bankrupt then' approach and at the end of last year said 'off you go then' which he did. He's now the trustee, god help me.

I had HSBC who left accounts running for 6 months into the IVA building up thousands of pounds of charges. When this was finally closed, this great big hike in charges went into IVA taking original amount higher.

The other was the funding corp who I had a caravan with on HP, original price £28,000 purchase, £6,000 deposit taking it to £22,000 then was on 10 year payment of £350, couldn't keep up so they took back caravan which they sold for just under £10,000 and I made 12 month payments of £4200. They put a shortfall of £27,000 into IVA arrangement and when queried was basically told by IP to shut up and it had been accepted.

My calculations where that even with admin and default charges this shouldn't have been anymore then £12,000 shortfall.

 

Know fully where your coming from with your issue, like me I tried to communicate with IP but in reality they only nice at beginning, after creditors meeting and its agreed, they treat you no better then the creditors did when you fell behind with payments.

[gizmo111]

Still not sure how to convey this wonderful find to the IP. Will they accept that these debts are unenforceable?

 

These agreements have already been enforced by way of the IVA.

[Goldlady]

These agreements have already been enforced by way of the IVA.

 

 

Hi gizmo, that is true however the IP has written to me regarding my friends case and said that if we dispute any of the amounts we need to let them know. I have told them we are asking the creditors to prove what is outstanding.

 

As an additional bonus, my friend has received a statement from one of the biggest creditors today confirming that the debt has been written off. Whilst I have warned her that it has probably been sold on to some DCA, if that is not the case then how can there be an IVA for a debt that no longer exists?

[gizmo111]

Hi GL,

 

I thought that the amount that was included in the IVA was agreed at the creditors meeting, and that was the security of an IVA - it is a binding agreement and the creditors or debtors cannot change that without another meeting.

[Goldlady]

I would have thought so too Gizmo but when one of the creditors decided to claim an extra 3k after the meeting I decided that if they could move the goalposts then so could we. This is an extreme learning curve for me and I am not sure of the territory at all, but if people have been forced into IVAs when really they should not have, then is the IVA not able to be challenged in the same way as you would challenge a default judgement?

 

My personal opinion where my friends are concerned is that they would have actually been far better off going bankrupt at the time and that I suspect they were 'mis-sold' the IVA on the pretence that everything thereafter would be rosy.

[gizmo111]

I would have thought so too Gizmo but when one of the creditors decided to claim an extra 3k after the meeting I decided that if they could move the goalposts then so could we. This is an extreme learning curve for me and I am not sure of the territory at all, but if people have been forced into IVAs when really they should not have, then is the IVA not able to be challenged in the same way as you would challenge a default judgement?

 

My personal opinion where my friends are concerned is that they would have actually been far better off going bankrupt at the time and that I suspect they were 'mis-sold' the IVA on the pretence that everything thereafter would be rosy.

 

The thing with IVA's is that you are not forced it is a voluntary arrangement based on info you give, so very different from a default judgement.

I dont know much about the mis selling aspect, just that IVA's are only suitable for the minority and the IVA companies make a lot out of money put of them which is why they push them over BR.

 

Would BR still be the best option for your freinds? If so I would consider they stop paying in the IVA and sort out what debts are valid and what are not and then deal with the debts from thereon.

The only reason I mention the BR aspect is that the IVA may have an automatic clause for BR - but if it is not going to cause any undue problems then it may be worth the risk.

How far into the IVA are they?

[Goldlady]

Into year 3 of 5. As their house is obviously worth less now it probably wouldn't come into a bankruptcy. One of my biggest concerns in all this was the clause in the IVA that says they have to remortgage their house for 80% of its value in 4th year - although having said that 80% of a much lower value will probably negate that clause so the credit crunch does have its advantages.

[Goldlady]

OK,so it is now more than two months since we sent the SARs.

 

Credit card £3811 -written off 30/3/07 - no CCA

Unsecured loan £10139 - written off Oct 08 - and it looks official, shows on latest statement

Credit card £1538 - £824 of charges before adding interest - possibly enforceable

Credit card £2787 - £676 of charges - no CCA

Loans totalling £19k - no response to SAR in spite of cashing cheque - IP have also questioned the £3k balance increase after creditors meeting at my request

Credit card £2625 - no response to SAR in spite of cashing cheque

 

Any ideas on what we do next?

[gizmo111]

You can start court action for non compliance with the SAR.

I wouldn't take too much notice of the written off debt at this stage, it is probably an internal accounting exercise to take account of the IVA.

[Goldlady]

Thanks gizmo, again. I hear what you are saying about them writing off the debts and guess perhaps that is not an argument to be using. Apart from the fact that the 10k one was N Rock and I do know they wrote off a lot of bad debts when things went a bit pear shaped for them last year:eek:

 

I will chase up the SARs in the first instance. And maybe write to the IP to see if they have had a response to their request for information.

[Josie8]

Hows it going Goldlady?

[Goldlady]

No news for ages.

 

My friends are still paying their monthly payments but I have had no reply from the IP about their supposed research into the creditors' claims. And as far as I know they have still withheld the dividend as I asked them to.

 

Just not sure what to do next. I think the credit crunch has been a big help as their house will now be worth far less and they will not have to remortgage in year 4 as the agreement says.