Hi all Well got my report today and surprise surprise I've been failed. How do the get away with these lies??? And somethung else I don't get. My last medical I was given 6 points just for depression and taking 50mg tabs. Since then they've gone up too 100mg, I've been diagnosed with curve of the spine, ocd and bdd yet get 0??? Figure that one out? Well this time they're nit getting away with their lies as I taped the whole thing!!! Let's see who has the last laugh now!

A friends area is expecting snow tomorrow, schools may be closed etc, she is stressing about what to do about her ATOS appointment. Is it a bad idea to cancel & reschedule those appointments? I told her they may even cancel if they have a problem getting there. But if the school is closed & they expect her to go still, can she take her children to the appointment?

There's been a fair bit of back and fro about the legalities, and pros and cons of recording your WCA or any other Atos-related assessment for that matter. The consensus seems to be that it's all very well asking Atos to do the recording, but it's probably best not to rely on them actually providing the goods on the day and to have a back-up just in case, which is where covert recording comes into play. Let's be crystal clear here: It is perfectly legal for an individual to record a conversation, and they do not have to notify the other side. An individual person is exempt from the Data Protection Act and not bound by the rules that apply to companies, as long as it it for their personal use. Using a recording so that you can show discrepancies in the notes taken during your assessment, for example, comes without a doubt under "personal use". In fact, even the DWP have had to finally admit that there is no rule to stop people from doing this, despite trying to say otherwise for a long time or trying to put restrictions on how recordings could be done. So, with all of the above in mind, for those who think: "great, I don't trust them buggers, but how do I go about it?", this is a little guide that will hopefully help a few people send Atos and the DWP packing with a flea in their ear: There are plenty of recording devices available these days, including on most phones, so: BEFORE the event: 1 - Use whichever best tool is available to you, if you can afford a secret mike facility, great, if not, make sure that there are as few obstacles between the mike and what's being recorded (clothes rustling or whatever can all interfere, so a clear line of recording is always best) 2 - Practice makes perfect: familiarise yourself with the equipment, try to use it in different situations so you know exactly how to switch it on, adjust it and so on. 3 - Absolutely necessary is enough memory to record the lot, so do invest into a good size memory card, I'd think 8GB will be more than enough, but again it depends on the amount of data the recordign device uses. It's always worth spending a couple of extra quid and get a bigger card if possible IMO. 4 - Start the recording before you get in there, so that if there is a broken lift, or they're trying to bully you into climbing stairs or other traps, or you can't get the door open, or no parking etc...you have recorded proof of their actions. AFTER the event: 5 - Get the data transcripted as soon as possible. If you're capable of doing it yourself, that's fine, just make sure it is an exact transcript. If there are bits which are muffled but you remember what was said, put it in brackets, like this [inaudible, but what happened was this: ...]. 6 - COPY your data onto CD, more than one copy, and also save it online somewhere, and also on different media. (I once went to a DLA tribunal where we were producing a dvd evidence, which they knew about, so had the equipment all in place... except the DVD player wouldn't play our format of DVD! Thankfully, I had my laptop and a USB key with the info on both of them just in case!) 7 - When preparing for tribunal, make sure that you warn both the DWP and the tribunal ahead of time that you will be entering the recording as evidence. 8 - When sending your bundle to the tribunal, enclose the DVD or USB key as part of your index, and the transcript of it as the next item on the index. If you act confident that there is no reason for them to argue, they are far less likely to try and argue, so enter these as parts of your evidence exactly like you would do with a medical report or a letter, it belongs there. It then puts THEM on the wrong footing to try and get it thrown out, and they would HAVE to show a very good reason for it to be rejected (which then gives grounds for higher appeal for erring in law if need be, so double whammy here!) 9 - Make sure you include another copy of the disc or key for the DWP. Normally, the tribunal makes the copies and sends them on to DWP (unlike normal court where you'd be expected to send a bundle to the courts and one to the other side!) but you can't really expect them to do that with a dvd or a USB key, so just do it yourself as a courtesy, clean hands and all that, it deprives the DWP of another chance to say they were ambushed. 10 - See what happens. I would put some money on the DWP folding in more and more cases as they become more and more worried about covert recordings. ;-) Of course, you could always end up with a recording showing the HCP being scrupulously fair, doing their job properly, recording things as they happened etc... and your recording therefore being useless as a defense argument, but that's just one of these things. Let's face it, the odds of that happening are not huge by all accounts.

Hi everyone I am carer for someone who suffers from uncontrolled grand mal epilepsy, osteo arthritis, COPD and asthma. He take a LOT of meds to try to control the epilepsy but the best it gets is between 6 and 8 seizures per week - can be more but never less than 6. His days are spent very drowsy through the meds, confused most of the time, memory is non existant. He is not safe to cook as he burns pans, he cant cut vegetables as he has cut himself through either confusion or having a seizure in the middle of trying to cook. He looses control of both his bowels and bladder when he has seizures, he has to sleep for 3 or 4 hours after each seizure. Just trying to give you a tiny bit of understanding what his life it like. On top of that, the osteo arthritis is bad enough that there are days he can't get out of his chair - I have to help him get to the toilet etc. He is in the transition between IB and ESA. I helped him fill in the long form they sent him and returned it. He was then asked to attend for a medical though ATOS deemed that he should have a home visit as he would have had to go down 24 stairs in the event of a fire which he could not do. He had the home visit by their doctor at end November. She was actually really nice and was sympathetic to his disabilities. She asked me a lot of the questions as she fully understood that just before, during and after a seizure he is in a state of total confusion, doesn't know where he is or even who I am. She said she was satisfied but that it was down to the decision maker to decide what happens next. He received the dreaded letter on 29th December but the letter is dated 17th December so that's 12 days gone of appeal to start with. The letter stated that he had been put into the work focussed group. neither of us could understand how this could be so he phoned ATOS. He spoke to a really helpful man who said that so many people are being put into the wrong group and that he should appeal. He said he would send the decision makers report so we could see how the decision was made and how to word the appeal. He in fact sent the report made by the doctor with her comments and ticks all through it. That turned up on Saturday 5th January so another load of days of appeal have gone. We both went to see his GP this morning who said that she supports his appeal and that he should have been put into the support group and not the work focussed group. She said that his disability will not get any better and that it is not feasable for ATOS to require him to attend work focussed interviews and even more so in that the time for the work focussed group is 365 days. Things are not going to be any better then, in fact they could well be worse through the stress of the work group. She is going to write a letter to this efffect in the hope it will help with his appeal. He also called ATOS and told them that they sent the doctors report but not the decision makers report which we need for appeal. He was told that would be with him by the end of the week (hopefully). I was looking at the doctors report and all the ticks throughout it. It is full of contradictions. The doctor ticked the box that states that a return to work in the long term is highly unlikely and wrote that he is drowsy all day because of meds and has 6-8 seizures per week. She wrote that in her opinion he cannot return to work even in the long term. She wrote on the first couple of pages things which we had both told her which is all correct - cannot cook unaided, cannot go to new or familiar places as he gets so confused he forgets where he is going etc and walks into traffic when he is close to having a seizure so has no awareness of hazzards. Problem is that as I looked through all the different question numbers (I think they are descriptors??) she has ticked something totally different e.g., it asks for a box to be ticked about problems going to unfamiliar places and familiar places but instead of ticking that he cannot do this unaided, she ticked that NONE OF THE ABOVE APPLIES. She also did this on several other of these questions. She has said one thing in her written part yet the opposite in the ticked boxes under the numbered points. Everything she was told tallies with what was written on the long form we had to fill in at the beginning which resulted in being asked to attend the medical! What on earth can be done about this? 1. How can we write an appeal that he has been put into the wrong group and should be in the support group and 2. How can we appeal against what has been done on the doctor's report? Apologies that this is long but trust me this is very condensed - just needed to let you see exactly what is going on. Thanks for any help and advice

Hello All, again Further to my recent post, I have now had my medical. I now have a few further questions which have arisen: - Previously I stated that I last filled an ESA50 in nearly a year ago, I was called to the medical a week ago and asked whether they were able to call me without an up to date ESA50, I was informed they were!!! On being seated in the interview room, I was initially asked if I could move around on my own and whether I had a bad back and extremities, I replied that a few aches and pains but generally mobile. I was then asked why I was being assessed or what my problems were, something along those lines!!! I then explained that I suffered with anxiety, depression and I was recovering from alcohol dependency (no alcohol for nearly 2 years). I then felt that the interviewer, who only introduced herself as Ajiz or something like that, no mention of qualification or her position of authority in which she was able to conduct the exam. I felt that she wasn't really asking appropriate questions to my limitations, such as my ability to go out into public places, use public transport and enter social situations. She also didn't really question me in depth about my inappropriate behaviour while interacting with other people!!! Is it up to ATOS and hence DWP to find that I am fit to work through their questioning and my answers, or is it for me to prove my case by blurting out my worst day experiences in an interview when I am not being asked the relevant questions??? My previous medical in January 2010 saw every question imaginable being asked and me answering. I was given 12 points which was later increased to 15 points following my letter challenging their interpretations of my answers (using one of the suggested letters in one of the 'stickys' at that time). Now, with all the questions that I felt were not asked, I cannot really question they're interpretation of my answers! This leads me back to the fact that all my usual life's reactions were clearly listed on my ESA50, though this doesn't seem to have been looked at!!! I saw my GP this morning who wrote a sick note for a month despite me not having had one for nearly 16 months! Can this sick note by a Dr be overridden by an assessor who certainly didn't identify themselves as having a medical qualification!!! I stated quite clearly that I believed, as did my GP, my condition had deteriorated over the last 5 months and that I had been referred back to see a Psychiatrist and my medication doses had been increased!!! Any answers, thoughts or suggestions gratefully received Thanks, Cotswold

...in february. We filled out his form a couple of months ago. What is the procedure please? He has kinda accepted that he will be put on JSA. But what is the timescale of things happening. And what happens IF & WHEN he finds a job & they sack him because he isn't mentally capable of holding down a job at the moment? Will he find himself with no benefits or can he go back on JSA straight away?

Good news but will it achieve anything? Just an addition. The debate should be live on the Parliament channel. Ill check and report back Michael Meacher States: January 9th, 2013 I am very pleased to announce that the elected Back-Bench Business Committee in the Commons has now arranged for a full 3-hour debate on Atos work capability assessments to take place in the main chamber (not in Westminster Hall where there has already previously been a debate on Atos) on Thursday 17 January starting shortly after 11am. I have already spoken to a large number of Members of all parties and am assured there will be a big turnout, so that people in a large number of constituencies (perhaps as many as 30) will be directly represented in the debate. I hope the speeches will cover a great many cases, though tragically there are so many hundreds of horrifying accounts flooding into MPs’ that not all of them can be specifically included.

Just a reminder that the debate about ATOS is live on TV from about 11.15 this morning.

Once again the MSE Forum has allowed the ATOS rep back on to the forum to 'answer queries" When he was allowed on before Christmas he was hounded off. Now strangely there's lots of nicely posed questions (too nicely posed for me) There is a huge PILE of newly registered stooges posting a PILE of carefully pre-arranged and posed questions to make ATOS look good. Take a look at how many questions are being put by relatively newly registered accounts, and the soft questions, worded to make the reply by ATOS look good. Its disgracefull MSE should be Ashamed of themselves for letting ATOS post there. Martin doesnt care, he's got his Little pile of gold from the site now. ATOS are being paid our money by our government to deprive the most needy of their money.

Saw this and thought of applying, would be very interesting if found fit for work at my next assessment:???: http://careers.atos.net/fe/tpl_Atos01.asp?s=IwfHeKPmZxOAfCcOxu&jobid=100592%2C2336544852&key=38006907&c=545825352347&pagestamp=setqhasvwyudxpveix

Hi all, wonder if you could help me again. I have just had my wca and informed them of a problem with my shoulder that was being investigated. I had a hospital app today and found out that I had arthritis in my collarbone and am now on the waiting list for an op, also I am being sent for a mri on my neck as i have problems there as well. Do I phone DWP or atos to let them know what the hospital found, as now waiting for my 0 points letter.

Helloo people, So my aunty had atos assessment today she was really not well but forced her to go there for assessment. She required an interpreter to translate throughout the assessment. She walked few steps, confused as hell, became quite tearful and made her comfortable in the room. The person who assessed seemed very caring and sympathetic till the end. she asked about few simple question and asked to go home in about 15 minutes total assessment. Now Question is why was it so quick? Is that something to worry about?? :|

I am 61 in March and get my state pension in March next year. I am on Incapacity Benefit (since 2008 when I retired on health grounds) and have my first ATOS assessment in June this year. I have been doing 10 hours a week permitted work - working from home, selling stuff online - and send in proof of income and expenditure to them every 6 months. My question is.... if I fail the ATOS test, would I then not be able to do the permitted work? I assume I would go on to JSA or something if I am deemed 'fit for work' but I am very worried that I would have to stop doing the permitted work at that point, or they would not give me any benefit whatsoever... My main hope is that seeing as how I have a degenerative lung condition in both lungs and I am coming off benefits in March 2014 anyway, they will leave me alone and let me just carry on till then on the IB. Do they take age and the fact that I am nearing state pension age, into account? If you have any knowledge of what happens in these circumstances, if I fail the test in June ... do you know how I am fixed - would I not be entitled to any benefit whatsoever, if I continue the part time homeworking? I have no idea what benefit I would go on to, if I was forced to seek work or how much it is. I guess the fact I am doing 10 hrs a week permitted work may go against me, would it? I really want to carry on with it though as I can manage it and it gives me a focus each day.

This has made me:mad2: to say the least http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/how-can-the-atos-boss-get-a-bonus-of-1million-while-disabled-people-suffer-8374083.html

Thought this may be of interest: http://atosvictimsgroup.co.uk/2012/12/11/bbc-request-they-want-your-atos-story-now/

My ATOS experience was the same as most it seems, banal questions, ticksheet and a perfectly fine verdict after ignoring what the actual issue was. Where it seems to differ though is afterwards, post rejection I phoned up the DWP and spoke to an exceptionally helpful chap who went through things with me, he stated what ATOS wrote was at odds with what I was telling him but there was no surprise in his voice. He went off and called me back pretty promptly having reinstated my benefits (or moved them across to the new one, ESA is it?). Now I have suicidal tendencies, I dont self harm or anything I just have no desire to exist, Im not sad or down but I am hugely depressed because it is very hard at times for me to feel anything at all, I can suffer from anxiety though, a story in the daily mail brought my experiences to the front of the mind and I looked around and found this forum.I exist because I dont wish to put my family through any pain but conversely often think that removing myself would be better for them in the long run. Now all that may have had a bearing on what happened, but the upshot is the DWP overrode ATOS there and then, there was no appeals process that I went through. Upshot is ATOS sucks but there are actually helpful and caring people working within the DWP and sometimes its just a little glimpse of human kindness that makes the difference.

Found this, this morning and await it's viewing...... http://www.michaelmeacher.info/weblog/2012/12/debate-on-atos-in-chamber-of-house-of-commons-now-likely-next-month/

Why does this not surprise me:( http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/disabled-man-abandoned-on-the-second-floor-of-building-during-atos-fire-alarm-evacuation-8376322.html

My wife will soon be going for one of the Atos assessments as she has been on incapacity benefit for around 16 years now due to a degenerated disc in the lower back, which causes walking, sitting standing dificulties. On looking at other messages, it seems she has little chance in keeping this under the new fit for work process. Our issue is that she doesn't have her own transport and public transport she cannot use as she is unable to stand in queues etc. and the Jobcentre plus is over a mile away. This would mean me taking time off work to take her to the Jobcentre plus each time she is asked to go there. She has not been able to have a social life for years now, and I mean by that - she cannot do any shopping, housework is very limited, and I have to do things such as cooking, washing up etc. as it is painful to stand in one position. But our real concern is that if she loses the money or has it reduced, it will leave us homeless as my income is nowhere near what is needed for this area of the country. We had to sell our house a few years ago because of debt and are in rented accomodation and wouldn't be able to afford that either. So what about all this added stress, is anyone going to care about this. To top it all as we are in an IVA we would also be made bankrupt as we wouldn't be able to afford these payments either. This would also jeapodise my job as they don't accept anyone who goes onto bankcrupcy. I don't beileve anyone in Government realises what stress they are putting on people just because they have been left with a condition which is not their fault

Can't believe this one...... http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4310631&highlight=atos will watch this very closely

Given that face to face assessments have now been conducted for some 3 years does anybody have a typical list of the questions asked by an ATOS HCP to determine points scoring re descriptors for part2 of the ESA 50 ie mental health and cognitive function.....or a link thereto. Questions asked post 3/11 would be of particular interest given that descriptors changed at that time. Such information should assist members to better prepare for the ATOS medical assessment, and moreover, be forewarned of the likely trick questions etc

Am listening to this now it is very interesting..... You can play it from the start http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=11821

Sorry folks on really reading into this it is not true!!!!!

Hi, just a question for those who've had their WCA recorded or requested it. I sent off my ESA50 form last month, and requested on it that if I was called for an assessment that it be recorded, and also requested two weeks notice so I could arrange for an advocate from a local mental health charity to come with me. I got an appointment letter on Saturday for a WCA on 20th September (12 days notice) with no mention of it being recorded. I phoned ATOS who said they had no record of me asking for a recorded assessment. The person I spoke to sent an email (to who I'm not sure) asking for a recorded assessment and cancelled the one on the 20th. She said I might get another appointment through for a non-recorded one, so I would have to ring up again to check when I get another appointment to make sure it's recorded. I got another appointment today for the 21st (that's 10 days notice) again with no mention of recording, so I rang ATOS again. First they tried to transfer me through to someone else, but cut me off. I called again and a different person said they couldn't put me through to "them", but then emailed "them" to ask them to get in touch with me. They couldn't say how long it would take. Anyway, my questions: If recording has been organised for this appointment on the 21st, would it say so in the letter? Secondly, how long should I wait before chasing this up? I spoke to them about an hour ago, and since then I've felt physically sick. I can't cope with this not knowing and need to know what's going on. Can I phone them back and ask them to cancel this appointment if they can't give me an answer about it being recorded? Aside from the way I feel, the longer this goes on for the less likely I am to be able to get an advocate if the appointment on the 21st is recorded and goes ahead. Thirdly is there anyone better to speak to than the number on the letter? Any idea who these people are that they're apparently emailing and if I can get in touch with them instead of the number on the letter? Finally, if I did go on the 21st (or indeed any other date) and there was no recording equipment available can I then demand they cancel it and give me another appointment?

This morning i had a letter from medical servises, i was on low care till last month when it ran out . Atos are doing the assessment doe's anyone have any advise.