Hi all, I've been on a DMP with payplan for just over 10 years. Here are the current rough scores on the doors of my creditors (payplan estimates): Cabot Financial Ltd £9,452.17 (HSBC Loan) Cabot Financial Ltd £277.27 (Cap one card) Erudio Student Loans Ltd £1,874.34 (defaulted student loan) Moorcroft Group Plc £3,410.50 (egg loan) Moorcroft Group Plc £1,145.68 (egg card) All of these are well over 6 years old, so don't have an effect on my credit, indeed, we got a new mortgage last year without any problem. I currently pay £136 a month, but can't pay more, so it'll still be a long time before these things are cleared; we could also do with that money each month - we've got a 3 and a 6 year old who deserve it spent on them instead! Has anyone got any ideas about where to go from here? I'd love to just say "stuff it - you can all have £1 a month", but I don't know if it's worth the risk - the DCAs have been very quiet and I don't much like dealing with them. (Does anyone?) Any thoughts gratefully received. Chocks

Hello, I would be very grateful for any advice / input on my options to move forward with my debt. I currently owe £50k to about 11 creditors. I have been on a DMP for 3 years paying £140 a month. I am self-employed, I rent and now live by myself so am covering all bills etc. I will be paying off debt until 2046 so am thinking IVA or Bankruptcy may be better solution to enable me to move forward in my life within 10 years. Many thanks in advance FF

Between us my OH and myself have £25k's worth of debt, the biggest debt is to OH's Halifax credit card for £9k, the rest is spread between 9 other creditors and includes a £2600 overdraft to Santander (and yes we are mortified for letting things get this bad) We are in the process of setting up a DMP with StepChange as we are both in our late 60's (I know old enough to know better) and don't want our sons to be left with having to sort stuff when we die. I was wondering if anyone has had any dealings with StepChange, they seem to have good reviews but I'd be interested to hear of any personal experiences from any forum users. Our last car payment is due October 2015 and they reckon that if we pay more once this is finished then we will be debt free in 5 years, there seems to be no other way tbh and we are at the end of our tethers. Many thanks

Hello everyone. I'm repaying some of my student loan, or rather my student overdraft, through StepChange. I really like StepChange, they've been nothing but nice to me and I've had no problems until now. To my horror, my recent payment has disappeared. I have to pay monthly, due by the 10th. I paid this month's installment on the 3rd, and it takes about 5 days to process so it should have made it on time. Only, 2 weeks later, they still haven't gotten it. There's no record of it at all. I used the exact same details to send this money. There were no mistakes in the bank details of the company, I double and triple and god knows how many times checked. If you compare the receipts of my previous successful payments, all details are absolutely identical to those on the receipt of the missing payment. Except the date of course. Now I'm sitting here wondering what will happen to me, if I have to pay double, what my rights are. I've emailed them scans of my bank receipts of each payment for them to compare and see that there's no reason they shouldn't have my money, and I'm just waiting on a reply from them. What can happen to me here? Any help is appreciated. Thank you for reading.

I am hearing radio ads about reclaiming if you are in or have been in a dmp. I wouldn't want to use any reclaiming company. any thoughts on what could be claimed and how to go about it

My wife and I have been on a Stepchange DMP for 4 years - we had over 30 creditors to begin with but now have around 20 and have paid off about 70% of what we owed. One of the remaining creditors - Cahoot - has recently contacted us to say that they are writing off the amount owing (which is £1579) because they have failed to provide us with any statements since the start of the DMP. Looking at the other creditors there are 2 more on there who don't send us any statements either. Is it worth raising this as a complaint with them? If so what wording should we use? They have both frozen all interest and charges so we don't really want to upset them! Additionally my wife received a CCJ at the same time as we set up the DMP and we agreed with the creditor to pay £116 a month on a £9k judgement. They then sold this to Investec who we have paid via standing order ever since. They never ever send us a written statement and rather strangely no CCJ shows up on my wife's Noodle or Experian accounts - there definitely is one, we have a copy of it. Does anyone know if they have to supply a written statement of account for a CCJ?

Hi has anyone got a link to the guide expenses plz:???:

Contacted Stepchange, considering DMP, afraid of Shop Direct etc continuing to add on interest and late fees, have been charged hundreds over last few years, if I can get any back that would help. DEBTS: VISA 5300 no missed payments ISME 1600 (570 in arrears, not making min payments at moment) FIFTY PLUS 440 (100 arrears) KandCo 60 CAP ONE 200 CAP ONE 190 TSB 500 CO-OP 400 Income 1150 mthly. Basic outgoings 900, min payments 320. Am thinking of paring food, etc right down to £25 week just to try to get rid of the catalogue debts. They are already phoning every hour or less, not answering at moment. Letter from one asking me contact Reliable Collections. Would just go with Stepchange if not afraid of cat debts going up instead of down. Any advice much appreciated, apart from anything else I need to figure out how to do SAR to them. Thanks.

Hi all, Glad to be here. I'm a long time browser and a new user. This forum has gave me great ideas in the past and I have helped my friends by reading advice on here. Now for my story. I have been with Kensington Finance for over 5 years. I was aware of free ones but thought that it was too much hassle as my debts were surrounding me. I was not thinking clearly and wanted a quick way out. In fact, I got referred to them by someone I knew. He said that they are good, no hassles blah, blah blah. Like a naive person, I arranged a DMP with them. They put me on a DMP on £90 a month (£49 paid to 3 creditors and £41 for their 'management' fees). I agreed and forgot about them. Currently I don't work. Ironically I'm studying to become an accountant. lol. Before I was working with computers and did a degree in Multimedia systems. Just last week, I got a wake up call from one DMP company. Someone called me up and managed to obtain my credit history. She told me that I have £8500 debt (with 3 creditors), which will take me about 12 years to pay off on my current plan, and was trying to sell me an IVA. I simply told her that I'm not working and therefore I probably won't be eligible. I simply put the phone down. I wanted to check how much debt I had left. Originally I had just under £11,000 debt and it doesn't take long to work out that only £2,500 has been paid off so far. Since that time I have paid Kensington Finance £2460 (£41 x 12 months x 5 years) in management fees which could have easily been paid towards the debts if I went for the free one. After that call, I called up StepChange and decided to go with them. They phoned me on Monday 02 June and set up a DMP with me. They worked out that £102 a month is reasonable for me and I should be debt free in 6 years 4 months, if my situation don't change. Today I phoned up Kensington Finance to cancel and explained my reasons why. They said that we will only charge you £10 in management fees. They also said that changing the DMP over to StepChange might cause bother to creditors and they might hassle you again so stick with us. Under the new plan it will take you 6 years 9 months to be debt free in my current situation. So what I want to know is that if any body had problems changing over? Will it cause problems with the creditors and for me? Should I stick with Kensington Finance as they have my details or send the paperwork back to Stepchange to get the DMP started? Sorry for long post. Any other advise gladly welcomed.

Hi, Just found out that my parents are in a lot of credit card debt - more than I thought. High tens of thousands. It's at the point where my Dad is drawing cash from the cards to pay the mortgage and the cards, whilst his income goes on food and bills. I want to help them onto a DMP in the first instance via StepChange and then look at CCA'ing the accounts afterwards. I have some questions that I can't find the answers to conclusively: 1. DMP followed by CCA requests - is that the best order? I think so. All accounts were opened late 90's/early 00's. 2. Some of their cards are jointly owned, some are not. Would StepChange need a call from each, resulting in two payments and two DMP's, or do they bundle them into a single DMP with a single payment? Thanks

Hi all, I have tried to find some specific threads relating to my own situation but guess we all have similar but unique situations.. I am really looking for some advice of what best to do to reduce my debt. Currently I owe the following, which is being paid on a dmp via Harrington Brooks - I know they charge me but it was hassle free... 1) Moorcroft debt recovery £1923.16 paying £10.95 per month This was an egg card with max balance of £2k 2) Cahoot £6517.00 paying £29.75 per month this was a £7k unsecured loan 3) Apex Credit Management £3421.02 paying £19.45 per month Mint Credit Card - £3.5k 4) Welcome Finance £1921.82 paying £9.26 per month Unsecured loan £900 4) Northern Rock Asset Management - £10341.08 paying £54.62 Unsecured loan £10k 5) Wescot Credit Services £3248.88 paying £17.94 per month Lloyds TSB overdraft £2k Total: £141.97 Payment to HB: £180.00 I started my dmp in 2006 with abacus paying £150.00 then reduced to minimum of£100.00 per month when work was tough, then back to £150.00 and £180.00 for the last 2 years. I know I should arrange independently to save money which I will do as can probably afford to pay more but how do I do this? Also I had various defaults issued in 2005 2006 before I began my dmp but now my credit rating has improved. I want to clear these debts faster as must have paid nearly £10k in payments to abacus / HB but my debt has hardly come down and most are still well over the original agreed amount! Currently I have another 16 years to pay this all off at the current rate which is extreme! How can I get the amounts reduced - for example I only borrowed £900 from Welcome Finance yet still have £1921 balance to pay its unreal, similar to my Lloyds debt. I can probably afford to pay £300.00 per month in total and also stand to receive about £3k tax rebate which I can put into clearing my debts. I've read about full and final settlement - what should I prioritise to maximise what I have? I want to make a greater impact in my debt but reduce it as much as possible anyway I can so appreciate all help and advice please

Hi, I recently contacted CFO Lending with regard to a total outstanding debt of £800 that i am struggling to repay. They have offered to let me pay the debt off over a period of four months which initailly i was pleased with. However these payments are still too high for me to afford and I think there may be a way for me to dispute these high payments? Does anyone have any experience of dealing with CFO Lending or any other options available to me? I am prepared to pay off the debt but only at comfortable payments that i can afford. Any help is much appreciated. Thank you!

Hi, I have recently separated from my partner and would like to remove him from the mortgage, I have been advised that I will need to go through a re-mortgage to take this on myself. I am currently on a DMP and am worried that they will not let me re-mortgage, I don't want to borrow any additional monies and my ex partner does not want anything, I have been paying the mortgage since May 2013 with no contribution from my ex. If the mortgage company say no, what are my options.

Hi,I have been reading a lot of info on this forum and wondered if I could get some advice on my situation? I have been in a DMP with pay plan since 2006, never missed a payment which I currently pay £300 per month and have significantly reduced my debts by 60% but still owe £20K. I have now been made redundant so this month have only paid £100 as I have only been paid for one week and will not receive my redundancy pay and notice pay until April. I really want to try and sort these debts once and for all as i do not know how long it will take me to find another job and cannot continue to pay the full amount with no income only my redundancy money to live of so I am thinking of ofering full and final settlements? This is what I have done so far: I have checked my experian credit report and none of the debts are showing, they all defaulted and fell of, the last one disappeared February. Interesting though yesterday when I ordered my report my score was 0!!! today I re checked and I had a score of 964, any ideas why from one extreme to the other?? I only had PPi on one flexi loan which I claimed back I have sent a CCA of yesterday to all, not sure what will come back. I am thinking this may help with negotiating a setlement The debts are as follows: Link financial 2 ex MBNA credit cards £9K CCa sent for both Barclays ex Egg £3K cca sent Robinson way and been round the houses but ex HSBC 2 bank accounts £800 approx and one credi card £2K cca sent for credit card Nat west/mint cc £2.5K cca sent Moorgate ex marks and spencer credit card £1K cca sent I informed pay plan and they are going to call me in April to discuss options bu at the moment the creditors will receive the lower payment and will not have been informed. I am not sure if I should write to them and inform them of the situation now or wait until I have received responses to the cca request. Also if I write to them now I need to send them an updated incone and expenditure list which will make no sense as my income has gone to zero and my expenditure is the same. Do I need to tell them what my redundancy package is?? Any info much appreciated and sorry for the long message!! Thank you

Hi all, I've been reading a ton of info on the web and pieced together some info, but I'm really confused and could do with some help with quite a complex problem. Seen some really aggressive responses on other sites, but hoping you lot can help! I got into financial difficulty about 6 years ago (redundancy, ill health) and immediately tackled the situation head on by going to PayPlan and arranging a DMP which I have been in for the duration. I'm clawing my way back to normality and I'm in a position now where I can start to settle. I've been through my credit report and my first problem is that I'm having real difficulty reconciling the outstanding balances and the DMC's with what's listed on my PayPlan report. Now I'd never really worried about this until recently when I discovered they'd not distributed my payment one month through my creditors and subsequent investigation showed they'd also not distributed the increase in payment from my annual review. I now don't know whether to trust them and whether to start managing this myself. I don't even know where to start. My second issue is with Default notices. I've read lots of conflicting reports on these. Essentially I'd like to work toward cleaning up my file so I'm in a position to get a mortgage. I've been doing this for the last 5/6 years on the understanding that Defaults drop from the credit file 6 years after they are issued. I've read some reports saying that the 6 year clock restarts at the point you settle though - is this true? Also, at the time I got into trouble, I had 6 accounts which I believed all Defaulted at the same time. Checking my file today, it appears 2 have dropped from my file completely, one appears as "Closed" and 2 are still "Open" with balances. Of the 2 "Open" Defaults, one looks likely to drop from the file in June this year (which is fine), but the other, which stupidly is also the smallest amount of all of them doesn't drop until December 2016 as the Default date is listed as December 2010. My question on this is that the account clearly shows I was in serious trouble and making significantly reduced payments for 2 years prior to the default being issued. I don't think I can get the Default removed, but do I have a case for having the Default date moved to the point where I believe I'd actually defaulted on the terms of the agreement? In all of this, I've paid throughout and my intention is to pay all of the money back - unless that's a stupid idea. I didn't even realise you COULD pay a lower amount to DMC's. Apologies in advance for the giant post - I realise a lot of this is covered elsewhere, but I just don't know where to start with it all. JJ

Hello, I am almost in the position to start approaching my creditors to give Full and Final settlement offers however I would like a bit of advice first. I am looking to get a mortgage within the next 2 years and want to get myself in the best position possible to apply. I will have money available from family to clear the debts however the majority will come from my local credit union, I have already discussed this with them. I am currently on a DMP with StepChange and one of my creditors has only just defaulted my account so the 6 year clock has only just started ticking.... I have read on this forum that its unlikely I will ever be able to have the defaults removed with the CRA's however I am going to try. Has anybody ever had defaults removed as part of F&F settlement negotiations? I have seen some F&F settlement letters on this forum with default removal as one of the conditions. I am aware that a settled default is not much better in the eyes of mortgage lenders than an unsettled default. Also, I am not sure if I should use Step Change's free F&F settlement service or go alone using templates here. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Many Thanks

Hi there, long time reader here wondering if I could get some advice. I hope this is the correct sub forum but if not please let me know. To give a quick run down, I'm currently on a DMP with PayPlan and have been for 3 months. The aim of this is the get debt cleared by 2016/start 2017 at latest and get on track for a mortgage ASAP. What I'm concerned about right now is on my Noddle report all creditors are reporting the debt as an AP/AR rather than defaults, obviously I'm wanting it to default ASAP so the 6 year clock can start rather than when I finish paying the DMP. So now I'm stuck: 1. Do I stick with PP DMP suck it up that there will be no mortgage until 2023 2. Stop paying PP, with the aim to get it all defaulted then set up my own DMP I'm concerned about the risk of CCJs as that would affect renting and don't want it to go down that route. Any help would be great as I'm going around in circles in my head at the moment

Hi, This is a strange one, I'm posting here to see if a common problem. About 6 months ago Pay Plan messed up my DMP by increasing payments to my creditors without contacting me. One creditors balance was cleared and PayPlan created a new payment plan without contacting me. It turned into a gigantic mess so I sent a formal letter to Pay plan to cancel the DMP and started to self administer my DMP, as well as complaining about their mess up. Got an email response, very poor response, and decided to get new SAR details to confirm the facts before making a formal complaint to them. DSAR sent, no response. Searched through my files. When I sar'd them in 2012, same thing, I only got a response when I send LBA. Last week I sent a SAR chase up letter, they claim not to have received the original letter, but will oblige with the SAR this coming week. I just though their DSAR department was incompetant, but then I got the shock of my life. I opened a CC statement to find a pay link payment on there, why? My PayPlan DMP is closed. Looked into my account, they have split the £10 fee for the SAR amongst my creditors! The SAR was a formal letter, clearly detailing I wanted full disclosure etc, especially telephone notes (as they were also very naughty last year and lied to me!). The best bit.......the have paid several creditors whose balance was 0! Sheer incompetence. Are play Plan covered by FOS? Am I entitled to any compensation, as I now have to spend time contacting quite a few creditors (again) to sort this mess out. Last time I had to renegotiate with 9 creditors to set up DMP myself, with many of them several signed for letters, requiring new i&e's etc, so the costs have been mounting up. Not what I need in the slightest. Any advice would be welcome CS

To cut a long story short - I got into financial difficulty in 2009. Most of my creditors defaulted me by 2010. Ok, I accept the defaults, I deserve it. However, Lloyds kept accepting my DMP payments until 2012 before defaulting me. In my opinion they have punished me for trying to pay my debts off when in reality, I would have been better ignoring them for 6 months and defaulting. Are they allowed to do this as the defaults would now be nearly 4 years old as opposed to 2 years old. I thought banks were only supposed to accept DMP payments for a short period before defaulting you? 2 years seems a bit of a **** take in my eyes? Thoughts?

Hi I have been in a debt management plan for two years. I have been able to maintain payments until four months ago when due to change in circumstances (long term sick and Wife out of work) have only been paying a token payment of £1.00 to my creditors a month. It is a non-fee paying company. Most of the creditors have sold the debts on to debt collection agencies. Couple of questions please if anyone can help:- I have never asked for proof that these debts are enforceable (is it a CCA I request). Two of the creditors are still adding ridiculous charges/interest despite being aware of the situation. With these charges I am not making any headway at all. Thanking you in advance for any advice you can give. pgtips

Hi, I'll keep the back-story brief but having got into a spiral of ever increasing debt during some incredibly turbulent times for my wife and I in terms of employment I found myself 5 years ago in a situation where I had no job, had lost vast amounts of money in two failed businesses and pretty much had to start over. All through the initial problems I had needed to maintain my credit rating as I worked in Financial Services* which foolishly meant I borrowed ever more to keep up with payments. By the time the businesses went and I was unemployed I owed a stack of money with no means to repay and, having taken advice I booked to go bankrupt. On the day I was due in court I couldn't go through with it. I had found a job, albeit on less than half my previous earnings, and wanted to try and sort it out so entered into a dmp with CCCS. This lasted for about 3 months before I realised I just couldn't afford it and so the dmp failed (by this time early 2010). Since then I have, I'm embarrassed to say, kind of done the ostrich thing in the hope that I could keep the creditors at bay until such time as I could afford to make regular payments that would be enough to make a serious dent in what I owed. Between then and now I have changed jobs four times, each time in order to chase higher earnings and have, since last summer, finally been in a role that I can settle into for the long term and offers some stability in earnings. Prior to this I have been so wary of getting another dmp going only for it to possibly fail. However, I have just received a CCJ claim form for one of my debts and, having got over the panic, I am going to use this as the kick up the backside I needed to sort my finances out once and for all (it's about time!) so would appreciate any help and advice that can be offered here, especially as I understand I need to move quickly with the CCJ. Here's a summary of what I owe. Some of these debts have always been maintained, either because they are priority debts, or in joint names, as my wife has, until recently, always worked in financial services and so had to protect her own credit rating. Joint NRAM Mortgage £251k (never been in arrears) Joint NRAM Together loan £28k (never been in arrears) HP, my car £3,000 (was in arrears but renegotiated a few years ago, vital for work no arrears) HP, my wife's car £4,000 (never in arrears, vital for work) Student Loan c£4k, (was being taken from salary but just switched to direct debit as within two years of paying off - standard SLC practice) Catalogue account in my name, balance of c£1k, all up to date (essential purchases for the house when money has been tight). Bank loan in wife's name, circa £4k (never in arrears) Credit card for £10k, in default, now owned by DCA (showing on credit file as such), originally opened Jan 2008. Bank loan £2k, in default, still owned by bank started April 2007 Credit card £8k, in default, now owned by DCA originally opened Feb 2007 Overdraft £2,5k, in default, now owned by DCA Credit card £5k, in default, now owned by DCA, originally opened July 2003 We also owe about £750 in service charges to the management company who run the estate we live on. The CCJ is for the overdraft. What I'm going round in circles with now is what I'm supposed to do next. From my research it seems I should be putting together a budget plan (which I have done) and need to submit this for the CCJ and at the same time to my other creditors with a view to beginning payments to all of them on a pro-rata basis. Is this right? I have been offered £1,500 by my sister who said I should offer this to the DCA in f&f settlement for the overdraft but from what I've read that would be frowned upon by the courts and I'm thinking if the others see this happening they'll all try and get a lump sum which I won't have (although it is a very generous offer, £1,500 is all my sister has available). The thing that is really confusing me is how will the joint debts be viewed? Will I been deemed to have been giving some creditors preference by keeping up payments on the Together loan, the HP etc? My wife needs to maintain her credit rating for work reasons so will we be allowed to maintain payments on the joint debts and anything in her name? Will we be allowed to keep our cars? We haven't the money to buy other cars and would lose both of our jobs without them. I am also struggling with the budget planner as some of my income is from non guaranteed bonus. I'm guessing the courts/creditors won't just disregard the bonus so how will they calculate my disposable income? These are just the things I can think of right now, I'm sure I'm missing loads of other stuff. Sorry that this has been a long post but if anyone has not yet given up reading and can give me some advice I would appreciate it more than I could say. It's been a long few years and we've got so used to this all hanging over us that it feels like a relief to be finally doing something to sort it but I'm still having sleepless nights trying to figure out the solution! Thanks for your time. AT *No offence to any investment bankers out there but I probably should add that when I say we worked in Financial Services we weren't anything to do with the City.... I had a local mortgage brokers serving local homebuyers/owners in the Midlands and my wife was a branch based retail banking employee who lost her job when staff numbers were cut.

The FCA will assume responsibility for all debt management companies from 1 April 2014 and hold these fee paying companies to account for any failings. I for one will see how many fee paying companies remain trading. These represent the scourge of vulnerable consumers caught up in the debt spiral.

Hi everyone I'm a newbie to this site having just stumbled across it. Wow I'm overwhelmed by the information so I thought it easier to ask for advice. Firstly I'm on a DMP with Stepchange and have been paying it religiously for the last 6 years. Original debt £40647.21, in the last 6 years I have paid £17271.00, balance = £23376.21 I want to clear this debt quicker, the DMP finishes in 2020 another 6 years. I work fulltime but don't have any savings, should I start to pick off the debts 1 by 1 and offer full and final settlements? What is CCA that people are talking about? I'm a single mum with 1 dependent and work full time. My DMP payments are currently £300 per month but have previously been as high as £400. I can't bear the thought of another 6 years of a DMP. Please help!

I've just had the forms from NatWest for PPI on loans going back as far as 10 years. I'm a little confused as I was told (by NatWest) that there was a time limit of 6 years on making these claims. There are a number of reasons why I believe I'm eligible to reclaim the PPII was told repeatedly that not taking PPI meant I was more likely to be refused a loan My employment over that period changed between employed and self-employed, the staff who completed my loan application knew this and didn't imform me that this would mean I might not be covered by the PPI A staff member told me to always put 'employed' as my employment status even though I changed between statuses & advised during one application I would soon be changing employment status - they didn't mention any of the implications regarding self-employment I have a number of debts outstanding with NatWest that I am paying in an informal debt management arrangement as well as a number of debts with other providers. My NatWest current account has been closed in so far as I can no longer use it. However it is open in the sense that I can still use the sort code and acc number to make payments to pay off the overdraft I had when I closed it to begin paying off my debts in an arrangement. What I'd like to know is: Can NatWest force me to use the money to pay debts I have with them or can I request they pay me by cheque? (I have debts with other companies so I would be required to allocate the money equally between them if I was to use it on my debts) Am I best giving all the reasons why I think I was mis-sold or just to stick to one and keep my answers on the form brief (they're a bit of an essay currently!) Thanks in advance.

Hi I started a DMP with the CCCS 3 years ago when I had 21k of debt to pay off. I still have about 11k left so about 4 years to go until I am debt free. I've looked through the forums etc but I was just wondering if anyone had any ideas if I could pay this back sooner, reduce my debts, IVA etc? I am paying £274 a month with I can just about manage. I am desperate to get this debt paid off asap but cannot afford more then £274 a month. My debts are from 3 credit cards, 2 store cards, 2 overdrafts and a loan. Also one question I have is regarding a lloyds overdraft I had about 4 years ago. I had their top current account at the time and was able to apply to extend my overdraft online which was an instant decision. I keep doing this as I was always short of cash and somehow over a period of about 2 years I managed to get my overdraft limit up to......£6920, yes, £6920!!! How did they let me do this? is was an apprentice at the time so was earing between £11k-£18k at the time and renting a flat!! If anyone has any advice or ideas I would very much appreciate it. Thanks for your time reading this. Mike