To update They have ignored my S10 notice & have continued to chase full settlement through a dca saying they have given me their final response

Hi, I there any chance someone would be able to take a look at my post #13000 please? Many thanks

Hi, I hope that someone here may be able to offer an answer to my question. I do have my own thread on the subject but haven't been able to keep it up to date and often do not get responses. I have an alleged agreement with a bank for a loan for which I sent off a CCA request in 2006. The bank responded after the timescale with an incorrect agreement (for a lower amount which was cancelled and incorporated into a larger amount before the funds were cleared). They eventually sent a copy of the agreement for the larger amount but did not include the cancellation rights. Despite my attempts to get them to send the cancellation rights (including sending a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)), they have given me no copy of these rights (mentioned in the agreement) or any evidence that they sent them to me. There were 2 agreements (1 cancelled by the second) and one was actually signed when a member of staff visited me at my place of work. I cannot recall which agreement was signed on the bank premises and which was not - I seem to recall that this has some bearing on the bank's obligations. My question is this: on these grounds can I, if they send the cancellation rights, cancel the agreement and repay the initial amount borrowed minus any payments made (but not including any interest or charges). I think I may have read somewhere that someone has done this, but I think I may also have read that there is a time limit. I would be grateful of any advice anyone can give or if you can point me in the right direction to find out for mself that would be greatly appreciated. My complaint really is that I was given no opportunity to asses whether I could afford the increased monthy repayments or to extend the payment holiday. I also do not believe I was given a copy of the agreement at the time of signing although I do not have any evidence of this. I really want to point out to the bank that their irresponsible actions in not giving me these opportunities to asses the situation are indicative of their general failings and I would like them to receive a shock which they would learn from. To this end, I would ideally like to show them that they have no right to any repayment from me. Should it be necessary however, I would of course repay the initial amount as mentioned above. This has dragged on for far too long now and has been passed on to a dca so I would really like to get this cleared up as soon as possible. I would be most grateful if anyone can give me any help with this. If it's easier and offers less distraction from this topic, please feel free to respond by PM or in my thread Suspect I have no loan agrrement

Hi all, I've just subscribed to the thread & I've got a couple of questions I'm hoping someone can help me with. Firstly, can anyone tell me if the judge in the Rankine case was Judge Brown? I ask because I've just received a letter saying the credit card company's complied with my s78 request by sending an application form and (undated) T&Cs & stating the issues have been interpreted in the high court by Judge Brown. It would be a great help if I can find out what they're referring to. As they've given me no more information, they're obviously hoping to intimidate me into giving up. My second question is, can anyone send me the links for Wilson v FCT & Wilson v Hurstanger please? Many thanks & thanks for a great thread

I got a copy of an application form instead of a full agreement in response to my CCA request. T&Cs are not dated. Just out of interest, can anyone tell me if this section of the T&Cs gives this company the right to pass on my details to DCAs or CRAs please? We may transfer to any other person any or all of our rights under this agreement at any time and our duties (including, without limitation, our duty to lend to you). We may do this without telling you. Your rights under this agreement and your legal rights (including under the Consumer Credit Act 1974) will not be affected. I think it probably does, but just want to be sure, although as they're not dated & on a separate sheet from the form, they're not confirmed as being current when the application was signed

Oh...now I feel stupid, but I haven't seen that part of the site before

I don't know the site - what is it?

Thank you soo much Spiceskull, I knew it was going to be something really simple like that, but so much more appreciate after I've just wasted another hour of my life on the phone trying to get this sorted. You know how they measure how many years you spend awake, asleep, at work, eating etc? They should add a new category for being on hold/talking to someone who isn't listening on Virgin's customer services line

Hi, Thanks tiglet, that'll be my next move, but I was hoping someone may have an email address. I seem to remember someone saying somewhere on here that they had it. Also, it would save a bit of time & hassle (most of my recorded delivery letters don't seem to make it to their destination!)

Needless to say, I'm not looking to contact him to congratulate him on Virgin's customer services. I'm starting to reach the end of my tether with Virgin not keeping to their word. It's a very long story, and has been an ongoing problem for at least 6 months so, having tried to reason with probably most of their staff, I'm hoping their top dog, Neil berkett may listen. The long & short of it is that I signed up for a package deal, was told it that would be the price for as long as I stayed with Virgin. But surprise, surprise, they now say that wasn't the deal. Have promised twice to send the contract out as evidence (never materialised) and to top it off, have made several mistakes with the direct debit & are now charging me monthly for not paying by direct debit since I cancelled it to prevent any more errors. If anyone has the contact details I need, please could you either post them or pm them to me? I'd really appreciate being able to wrap this up.

I've had numerous problems with Virgin backtracking on their word, overcharging & charging month after month for paying by card because they can't get the direct debit right. I reckon they went a bit overboard with handing out discounts & now the big bosses are worried about their bonuses. :o You're not alone tal! I haven't got very far myself with complaining yet...but the battle continues. Good luck

Hi, I need to send off a s.10 notice as my details have been passed on to a dca for an unenforceable debt (credit card company has sent me my application form in response to CCA request) for which I never signed any agreement or agreed that they could pass on my information to third parties. Obviously, I don't want to agree that there was a contract as per the standard letter, so I've adapted it. I was just wondering if anyone could have a look at my draft I've posted in my thread Suspect I have no loan agrrement please. I'd really appreciate it, so many thanks in advance

Hi again and thanks for your help with this. I've sent the s.10 off & cc'd in the credit reference agencies & the debt collection agency, but haven't heard anything yet. I'll send off for my credit record once I know they've all received them & the 7 days have passed. I have one other query relating to an unenforceable debt with a different lender who have failed to satisfy my CCA request as they were only able to supply a very poor copy of the application form which doesn't mention anywhere any reference to the Data Protection Act or disclosure of information. I don't want to send the standard s.10 notice to them as this would imply that I believe there is a contract, so I've modified it. Can anyone check it for me & let me know if it is good enough to send please? I need to get it off asap as they've already passed all my info on to a debt collection agency who I know will start harassing me in the next couple of days. I'll be sending off copies of the debt collection guidance notes too. Anyway, here's my version of the s.10 notice: Address Account details etc cc Equifax, Experian, CallCredit, Debt Collection Agency Notice pursuant to s.10 of The Data Protection Act 1998. Whereas you claim that I have been a customer of XXXXXXXX since XXXXX and whereas you claim I consented to the disclosure by you of certain data to third parties, at no time did I consent and neither was it within the contemplation of the parties that I did consent to the processing by you of that data in any manner which would be unfair or inaccurate or which in any way would breach The Data Protection Act 1998. Therefore Take Notice that I require that you cease from processing within 7 days of the receipt by you of this notice or else that you do not begin to process any personal data of which I am the subject insofar as that processing involves the communication or passing of personal data of which I am the subject to any third party and insofar as the said data relates wholly or in part to the implementation by you of charges which have been applied to my account in respect of defaults or contractual breaches and where the said charges which have been levied at a rate which is in excess of the administrative costs incurred by you as a consequence of the said defaults or breaches contrary to The Common Law. This Notice is given on the grounds that the processing or continued processing by you of the said data will be likely to affect my credit rating and my reputation and cause substantial damage and/or substantial distress to me and my family members in addition to that which may already have been caused and that as the processing of the said data in the way referred to in this notice would violate the fourth, first and sixth principles of The Data Protection Act 1998 to do so would be unwarranted. Many thanks for your help

Hi Steven and thanks for your response. I've found the template letter for the section 10 notice, which I hope to be able to post tomorrow. As I received a letter yesterday from their recovery department, I know they have passed my info on and they say in their letter that they've registered the accounts with the credit reference agencies. (I will be getting a copy of my credit record as soon as possible to confirm). The thing is, the 2 accounts which were overdrawn have been in credit for nearly a month, but are still showing on the letter as being referred to recovery (with a credit balance). If I send the letter to the original bank, should I also send a copy to the recovery department with a covering letter, or do I need to send this just to the recovery department? & would I need to send 3 s.10 notices, one for each account, or could I just put all the account numbers on the one letter? Also, what would be considered reasonable if I were to sue for damages? Would I be able to claim back the bank charges and interest, or would it just be the interest & charges they've applied whilst they've been in default? Are there any guidelines about what's a reasonable amount to charge for distress, admin costs, time taken up by dealing with it? Thanks for all your help, Acer

Thanks for your help everyone. I guess I've got a bit of reading to do. I am of the opinion that as they're expecting me to follow the alleged agreement to the letter, then so should they have done in sending the cancellation rights at the time they said they would & again when I made the CCA request. Thanks for the heads up on the default notice. I hadn't thought of a claim for defamation. I will be sure to do some extra reading when I get a spare minute (time's very, very short at the moment). I have just updated my thread which is here Suspect I have no loan agrrement If anyone has any additional advice it would be much appreciated. Many thanks again for all your assistance

Time for an update. The 2 overdrawn accounts which they were trying to default are now cleared & closed due to a generous gift. However, I will be continuing to dispute the charges applied to both accounts. They also registered missed payments on these accounts with the cras which I'm sure has affected my credit rating. Despite my numerous reminders to them that they are breaking the law in trying to enforce an unenforceable agreement, they haven't sent the cancellation rights & they've continued to harass me by phone, calling my home phone, my mobile & sending me text messages. I have spoken to them a couple of times purely to tell them they were in breach of the law and were not permitted to chase me for payment. One person lost her temper, saying 'how could I think it was right to borrow money then not pay it back' & I nearly lost mine, but managed to just hold back. I have received more than one notice of default - the first arriving back in May (which I wrote to them disputing), the second at the end of November. The second default notice for the account in question stated that I owed the money to another bank which was part of the same banking group but is not the bank named on the alleged agreement. This account has now been passed on to the bank's Debt Collection agency who telephoned today. I simply told them that they were in breach of the law in chasing payment and the bank in question was breaking the law in passing my details on. I said I would not expect any more phone calls and hung up. I believe that interest and charges have been applied to the account, but as I haven't received any statements and have been kicked off their internet banking, I couldn't say how much. I'm not sure where to take this now except to follow the advice given by Trading Standards and to complain to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

Hi, I've been away from the site for a very long time, but I have some issues I'd like to clear up & I hope someone can help. I'm currently having problems with a company that I sent off a CCA request to over a year ago. They finally sent the correct copy of the agreement, (after the prescribed time) but no cancellation rights. I can't remember if the agreement was signed in branch or not, but the cancellation rights are mentioned on the agreement & I never received them or a copy of the agreement at the time or shortly after. I know that in some cases you have no right to cancel, but if your rights are mentioned on the agreement with a statement that you will receive them within X days, then surely they must supply them as this is what is agreed when the ageement is signed. This company has continued to chase me for payment, ignoring all my many letters stating they're in breach of the law & have issued a default notice. However, the default notice states that the agreement is with another bank. I know this bank is part of the same group, but if it is not the same bank that they claim I owe money to as per the alleged agreement, then surely the default notice is incorrect & they can't act on it? The reason I'm asking is I'm preparing a complaint against them with the Financial Ombudsman Service & also the Information Commissioner (as they've also failed to satisfy my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)) & I would like to know I have my facts 100% correct. Many thanks in advance for any reassurance anyone can give & I can't believe how many pages I've got to catch up on!!!!

I had an interesting offer from HSBC the other day. I rang about a problem with a direct debit, but once I'd finished she said something like: 'I see you have a managed loan with us, have you had this for long? A few years (me) Would you be interested in coming in for a chat? We might be able to switch it to a personal loan & save you quite a bit on the interest. I'll think about it (me) I just wonder if they've got the wind up them with all the pressure of bank charges and the question of the bank's responsible lending with these loans and are trying to wipe the slate clean. I haven't done anything with regard to the managed loan yet, I'm only at the reclaiming charges stage & haven't even sent off a CCA request. Would be interesting to send it now to see if they've actually got an agreement. They've also basically admitted that their interest rate is too high on the managed loans. Has anyone else had anything like this happen?

Slightly amended letter sent off. Also letter to DCA reminding them of Debt Collection guidelines & stating they can't chase debt. Will update if/when I get a response

This is what I've got so far. What do you think? Any amendments? 22nd October 2007 Sort Code: XXXXXX Account Number: XXXXXXXXX Ref: XXXXXX Dear XXXXXXX Since my last correspondence with you, I have received no satisfactory response from yourself or any of your colleagues. May I remind you of your obligations under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the Data Protection Act 1998 to provide me with the information I require. XXXXXXXXXX has continually refused to address these issues and has failed to comply. Above and beyond this, you have further exacerbated the situation by attempting to enforce an agreement which under the law cannot be enforced, and by applying defaults and contacting a Debt Collection Agency with regard to accounts which are in dispute. You are now in severe breach of the law regarding not only the Consumer Credit Act 1974 Section 77 request made to you on 27th October 2006, but also in your failure to respond fully to the Data Protection Act 1998 Subject Access Request I made on 14th March 2007. Your breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 is punishable on summary conviction by imprisonment or fine at level 4 of the standard scale. With regard to your failure to respond under the Data Protection Act 1998, I am fully aware that I am within my rights to open a complaint with the Information Comissioner or to begin a county court action under the Data Protection Act 1998. My request That the defaults be removed from all my accounts as they are currently in dispute. You are currently in default on the above numbered account which is unenforceable unless you can provide me with the evidence I requested. In reference to the correspondence I have received from the XXXXXXXXXXXX and XXXXXXXXXXXX, I must remind you that by continuing to pursue me for payment you are committing a further breach of the terms of Act (section 77 subsection 4) which states that: (4) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)— (a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement May I remind you that the default period began on 20th November 2006 and continues until such a time as I receive the information as stipulated above. My XXXXXXXX Account (XXXXXXXXXXX) and XXXXXXX Account (XXXXXXXXXXXXX) are currently in excess of their overdraft limits purely as a result of your excessive and unlawful charges, and attempts to withdraw payments for an unenforceable agreement. I request that you remove the defaults from these accounts and refund the charges and interest you have applied. Furthermore, I ask that you stop pursuing me for repayments on these accounts until such time as an agreement is reached. I also refer you once more to The Office of Fair Trading Debt collection guidance document Final guidance on unfair business practices July 2003 (updated December 2006) which ‘is intended to set out the type of behaviour the OFT considers to fall within the category of unfair business practices which will call into question fitness to retain or be given a licence.’ It states that unfair business practices include: · ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment · failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued · not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt. · applying unreasonable charges, for example, charges not based on actual and necessary costs · applying charges which are disproportionate to the main debt · leaving out or presenting information in such a way that it creates a false or misleading impression or exploits debtors' lack of knowledge · falsely implying or stating that action can or will be taken when it legally cannot · putting pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive. · passing on debtor details to debt management companies without the debtors' informed prior consent · misleading debtors into believing they are legally liable to pay collection charges when this is not the case Should you continue to pursue me for payments in relation to these disputed accounts, I shall have no alternative but to report you to the Office of Fair Trading, the Information Comissioner and to fully inform Trading Standards of your many failings and breaches of the law. Likewise, if you cannot agree to my requests and come to an agreement with me which reflects your failure to properly execute an agreement, I shall have no alternative but to report you. I await your rapid response Yours faithfully

Hi guys, Just spotted your posts which popped up while I was typing. I have threatened reporting them before, so think I probably just need to emphasize it's in their interests to reach an agreement with me outside of court etc. I will keep TS informed though as they've been helpful & as a back up. I've told them time & time again that I'll only communicate in writing, (which they've pretty much adhered to), so I'll just have to hope they pay attention now. I'll definitely get anything they might offer in writing.

Thanks for jogging my memory Jeff, I did write to Trading Standards some time ago & a very helpful gentleman basically reinforced what we all know - that they are in default, not me. I think I've probably panicked myself more than anything with having been out of touch for so long. I'll write back to them & I'll keep Trading Standards informed. I'll also report them to the Information Commissioner. Is there a link for this or do I need to write?

Thanks lookinforinfo, I really appreciate your help and thanks for telling me about a dispute not being resolved until I say it is - I thought as I'd left it a long while, there may be some legal timescale. I sent a CCA request nearly a year ago!!! They responded after the full deadline with pre-contractual info, wrong agreement, then finally correct agreement but incomplete (no documents relating to cancellation rights). I sent off the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request to try to get info on if they'd originally sent the cancellation rights (which they didn't send with the correct agreement). I know they've comitted an offence by not complying within the deadline and by not sending all the documentation. They've also failed to comply with the SAR. I originally sent £10 but they returned it saying it only costs £5, so please send a cheque for £5 (which I did). They also said I hadn't given them all the information (which I had). So I'm none the wiser about whether they even followed the letter of the law when it was set up. I don't recall receiving any cancellation rights & certainly didn't receive a copy of any agreement at the time The current account had 2 direct debits. 1 for the loan & the other for a repayment of £X a month for £X they'd paid into my account in error! These are direct debits I couldn't stop, but started te spiralling of charges. I'm not worried about not using these accounts as they were never my main bank account. I was just paying enough into them each month to cover the payments going out. I guess what I want to say is that they're still in criminal breach, they've also failed to comply with my SAR request, defaults to be removed, I want all the charges & interest they've charged on the overdrawn balance back & they must stop chasing me for repayments as the accounts are still very much in dispute, quoting debt collection guidelines. (I also want the £5 back from the cheque they cashed after they'd then turned around and said the SAR was free) Do you think that's alright? or is there anything else I've missed or could quote? I'm so far many 100s of pages behind on the Consumer Credit Act thread that I don't know if anything useful's been uncovered in the last few months. Thanks again, I really appreciate your help

Can anyone help please?

Can anyone have a look at my thread Suspect I have no loan agrrement please? I could really, really do with some advice