Perhaps not quite the illustrious victory as some here are able to claim but a win none-the-less.... Accepted "goodwill" gesture of £3,092 from RBS on Friday 13th!! Had a hearing date set for 07 August but to be honest needed the money and can now look forward to a much needed break. A note to anyone reading this thread who may be thinking of initiating a claim against their bank...READ everything you can on this excellent forum and take the advice BEFORE any action. I did things the other way around (somewhat) and stumbled along hence my decision to accept the settlement offer as I would now be having to amend the claim amount and POC if I had continued and, to be honest, don't have the fight left in me at this point in time (tough 1st 6 months of this year as it is with other issues). Thanks to everyone for their advice (special thanks to "Mrsfoot") and good luck to everyone who's claim is still on-going.

hedgey06....lmao! As usual the banks make their own rules.....I'm claiming from The Rob You Blind While We Befriend You Plc....oops! I mean Royal Bank of Scotland. Good luck!

Hi Paulomarto, Thanks for your post. Didn't realise your claim is likely to be heard at Liverpool County Court - good luck with it all. Shame the banks feel the need to waste people's time and money when they have no real intention to defend anyway and then settle (more often than not) before the hearing. I did try phoning one of the clerks at the court today as they were helpful on Mondday when I spoke to them. I am thinking now of sending the info the Judge has requested (copy to the bank/bank's solicitors and amending the POC). I do still need to get the rest of the court bundle together. I then intend writing/emailing Sandy Watt and asking if they will offer a revised settlement figure or risk going to court and losing costs as well. If they offered in the region of 85-90% (less costs) I would most probably settle to save the hassle and (albeit slight) danger of a court hearing. Guess they won't do that straight off though and so need to be prepared to go to court if necesary. Really need to look long and hard at what I need to include in the court bundle and confirm if I need to submit a copy of documents to the bank's solicitors. Keep me informed of your claim here and I'll do likewise. Good luck!

Hi, My claim has gone to Liverpool County Court and allocated without an AQ to the Small Claims Track. Today I received notification of the hearing date and directions from the judge. I have also been informed the hearing is only expected to last 10 minutes. Should I take this as a positive indication that it's such a short session? I assume the judge thinks the bank will settle before this date. Problem I have is the bank has offered a settlement offer of just over £3k on a claim worth £4.1k (plus costs). Would I be wise to accept this or continue with court action? Would it be frowned upon by the court if I have declined or tried to "part accept" this amount but then continued with the claim? I have included the Judge's directions below. I don't even know if I am to send the requested information to the bank's solicitors. If I do continue I am concerned I haven't got together my court bundle yet. District Judge J****** has considered the statements of case and allocation questionnaires filed and allocated the claim to the small claims track. 1. The Claimant do within 21 days of the date of this Order, serve a schedule setting out the amount of the individual charges, the dates they were applied to the account and the reasons given for such charges. The POC needed amending with a breakdown of charges and an actual claim amount, do I now need NOT worry about amending the POC or should I do this as well as conform with the Judge's directions? Do I send a copy to the bank and their solicitor? I'm concerned about the POC as I didn't stick faithfully to the template in the forums and it states I am claiming "illegal bank penalty charges" - could this wording be enough to get the bank's solicitors to have the case struck off??? 2. The hearing of the claim will take place at 14:00 on the 7 August 2007 at Liverpool County Court [court address] and should take no longer than 10 minutes. Any feelings/ideas on this? No longer than 10 mins??? Does this sound like a good aspect to the case (i.e. surely the bank can not adequately defend itself in this short a time?)? OR could this be an indication the courts are getting fed up with claims like this and end up throwing it out in favour of the bank? Such a short anticipated hearing time both elates and worries me. In order to utilise judicial time more effectively this matter has been listed with a number of similar cases. Er, hello! Is this good or bad? Could it be a sign the Judge is likely to judge in favour of the claimants or the banks? They seem to be rushing them through now which does give me some cause for concern. ANY THOUGHTS?!???!!

Thanks for the good wishes Paulomarto. Good luck to you, too! =============================================== Hi, I was all ready accept a victory in part today an accept a settlement offer by the bank of just over £3k on a claim worth £4.1k (plus costs) to end the worry and stress and get everything back to normal esp. as there are no conditions to the offer.....then I got home and found a letter from the Court with directions from the Judge and now I'm not so sure. It could sound promising to continue with the claim but worried it may mean the judge is fed up hearing such claims and is merely following protocol and allowing a moment of glory before voting in favour of the bank.....HELP!!! District Judge J****** has considered the statements of case and allocation questionnaires filed and allocated the claim to the small claims track. No AQ was ever sent to me. The case was allocated to Small Claims Track without one. Should I be concerned no AQ was ever used? Could the bank's solicitors have sent something to the court in defence without me knowing which is why (POINT 2 below) the case is expected to only be heard for approx. 10 mins? 1. The Claimant do within 21 days of the date of this Order, serve a schedule setting out the amount of the individual charges, the dates they were applied to the account and the reasons given for such charges. The POC needed amending with a breakdown of charges and an actual claim amount, do I now need NOT worry about amending the POC or should I do this as well as conform with the Judge's directions? Do I send a copy to the bank and their solicitor? I'm concerned about the POC as I didn't stick faithfully to the template in the forums and it states I am claiming "illegal bank penalty charges" - could this wording be enough to get the bank's solicitors to have the case struck off??? 2. The hearing of the claim will take place at 14:00 on the 7 August 2007 at Liverpool County Court [court address] and should take no longer than 10 minutes. Any feelings/ideas on this? No longer than 10 mins??? Does this sound like a good aspect to the case (i.e. surely the bank can not adequately defend itself in this short a time?)? OR could this be an indication the courts are getting fed up with claims like this and end up throwing it out in favour of the bank? Such a short anticipated hearing time both elates and worries me. In order to utilise judicial time more effectively this matter has been listed with a number of similar cases. Er, hello! Is this good or bad? Could it be a sign the Judge is likely to judge in favour of the claimants or the banks? They seem to be rushing them through now which does give me some cause for concern. ANY THOUGHTS?!???!!

Hi, I was all ready accept a victory in part today an accept a settlement offer by the bank of just over £3k on a claim worth £4.1k (plus costs) to end the worry and stress and get everything back to normal esp. as there are no conditions to the offer.....then I got home and found a letter from the Court with directions from the Judge and now I'm not so sure. It could sound promising to continue with the claim but worried it may mean the judge is fed up hearing such claims and is merely following protocol and allowing a moment of glory before voting in favour of the bank.....HELP!!! District Judge J****** has considered the statements of case and allocation questionnaires filed and allocated the claim to the small claims track. No AQ was ever sent to me. The case was allocated to Small Claims Track without one. Should I be concerned no AQ was ever used? Could the bank's solicitors have sent something to the court in defence without me knowing which is why (POINT 2 below) the case is expected to only be heard for approx. 10 mins? 1. The Claimant do within 21 days of the date of this Order, serve a schedule setting out the amount of the individual charges, the dates they were applied to the account and the reasons given for such charges. The POC needed amending with a breakdown of charges and an actual claim amount, do I now need NOT worry about amending the POC or should I do this as well as conform with the Judge's directions? Do I send a copy to the bank and their solicitor? I'm concerned about the POC as I didn't stick faithfully to the template in the forums and it states I am claiming "illegal bank penalty charges" - could this wording be enough to get the bank's solicitors to have the case struck off??? 2. The hearing of the claim will take place at 14:00 on the 7 August 2007 at Liverpool County Court [court address] and should take no longer than 10 minutes. Any feelings/ideas on this? No longer than 10 mins??? Does this sound like a good aspect to the case (i.e. surely the bank can not adequately defend itself in this short a time?)? OR could this be an indication the courts are getting fed up with claims like this and end up throwing it out in favour of the bank? Such a short anticipated hearing time both elates and worries me. In order to utilise judicial time more effectively this matter has been listed with a number of similar cases. Er, hello! Is this good or bad? Could it be a sign the Judge is likely to judge in favour of the claimants or the banks? They seem to be rushing them through now which does give me some cause for concern. ANY THOUGHTS?!???!!

OK. Thanks. If I go down the route of rejecting the offer with a view to settlement of the full amount plus court fees, would I be best amending the POC to the ACTUAL claim amount rather than the ESTIMATED amount as it currently stands before declining the offer with the bank?

Hi, Thanks for the link. I have already looked at these. While adequate in their intention and purpose, I don't feel they go beyond the scope of an offer rejection. As stated, I don't wish to go for an out-and-out rejection but hope to achieve - by the bank's acceptance - a part payment as offered and pursue the balance of the claim through the courts (if necessary). Thanks for the reply, though. Any advice is always welcomed and appreciated.

Hi All, I didn't know where best to post this (I have a thread in the RBS forum but comments/advice seem to have dried up a little). In brief, sent LBA to my bank in March for refund of estimated charges on 2 accounts (used letter from BBC web page rather than, with hindsight, looking on here 1st). Rec'd standard reply that it was being considered then heard nothing more. After 3 weeks had expired, initiated court action via MCOL for the said estimated amount. At the end of the 14 days, Cobbetts sent out a fairly standard defence and a CPR S.18 request. (I realised by this time - looking through the forums and advice from people here - that I had messed up on the POC a bit and had problems with the amount being estimated. Worried it was going to go down Fast Track due to estimated amount (c. £9,500 inc court fees). Responded to Cobbetts - heard nothing since sent to them on May 26th. Anyway, cutting story short. Sent S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to bank in the meantime so could revise POC with actual amount. While waiting for this, got letter from Liverpool County Court saying that it had been allocated to Small Claims Track - rec'd no AQ. Paid the fee before due date of June 8th. Told that court date will be sometime in August. Wed 13th - got full copies of statements back from RBS. Added up total charges for both accounts - £4,191 (plus £350 court fees). Following day, received fairly standard letter from Sandy Watt offering a goodwill gesture (without liability, blah, blah) of £3,092. THE QUANDRY....... Can/do I accept this as a part settlement? I would like to be able to accept this amount as part refund by the bank for charges on the joint account and (if necessary - unless a further offer is made) amend my claim from the estimated amount on both accounts to an actual amount on my own account. I know I can do this by paying the £35 fee and amending the Particulars of Claim. If I try to do this, how do I best go about it? Don't my own conditions effectively make it a rejection of their offer in essence? What are my chances (insofar as anyone can best guess) of the bank refunding this offer while I claim the balance? I am wary that they may just rescind the offer if I try attaching conditions of my own. I don't want to risk losing this offer as I know I have made mistakes in the past with this claim - the POC of the claim is still based on an estimated amount - but feel the offer should at least be higher. If they offered around £3,800 - £4,000 I'd be happy to accept rather than have this hanging over me all Summer and facing court. Most threads I have looked at appear to be concerned with people rejecting settlement offers AFTER their LBA and before court - my claim is already in the courts!! Any help/advice would be MORE than welcome. Will be making a donation to the site when this is all over as everyone here has been more than helpful so far.

Hi, There have been some interesting developments re. my claim. 1. The case was allocated without an AQ to the Small Claims Track at Liverpool County Court. I paid the Allocation fee and asked them roughly when I could expect a court date as I was concerned I hadn't had all the info back from the bank. I was told it will be sometime in August. 2. On Wednesday (13th June) I got back full copies of statements from the bank for the past 6 years for both accounts. I was right insomuch as the claim amount being way over estimated. The total amount of charges adds up to around £4,100 (I am not claiming interest on the amount). 3. The following day I received a letter from Sandy Watt offering a "good will gesture" of £3,092 as full and final settlement of the claim. This amount equals the amount owed on the joint account but leaves approx. £1,141 owing on my own account. I would like to be able to accept this amount as part refund by the bank for charges on the joint account and (if necessary - unless a further offer is made) amend my claim from the estimated amount on both accounts to an actual amount on my own account. I know I can do this by paying the £35 fee and amending the Particulars of Claim. If I try to do this, how do I best go about it? Don't my own conditions effectively make it a rejection of their offer in essence? What are my chances (insofar as anyone can best guess) of the bank refunding this offer while I claim the balance? I have tried finding similar cases in the forums but most appear to be about rejecting the offer and pursuing the full amount. I would like to be able to try and accept this as part payment and pursue the balance. I am wary that they may just rescind the offer if I try attaching conditions of my own. I have about 7 weeks left to respond but would like to get this resolved asap, so (once again! any help/advice would be welcome).

Sent off the info (v. careful what I said and how I said it - taking advice from many of the posts on here) to the solicitors today (copies to the court). See what happens next. Waiting on info from the bank now. Gonna take your advice, mrsfoot, and apply via the 224 to the district judge to amend the Particulars of Claim - trouble is without the bank info I can't amend the claim amount. I have also requested a copy of the T&C's from the bank/bank's solicitors for both accounts from when they were opened and any amendments since. If I don't get these, are there any links in here to any - havent come across any so far? Last quick question - it is a long weekend so want us all to enjoy it!! - am I eligible to claim th interest the bank has charged on O/Ds. Some posts seem to indicate that you can and others seem less convinced? Hope everyone has a great "BANK" holiday weekend!!! :o)

mrsfoot, thanks again for all the advice and support. You most probably WILL be getting a hand in writing my response. I can't seem to help worrying about this. I never realised when making the claim at the courts that it would be likely to go thru fasttrack and not the small claims track. I think I got myself confused by the fact that it said the claim could be up to £99,999.99 via MCOL. The thought of actually going to court is a scary prospect for me and I honestly have a strong feeling that RBOS will see this thru to court with me. I contacted Northampton Court y'day to ask about the allocation, telling them that although it is an estimated claim that the real amount will probably be less than £5k and therefore should stay in the small claims court. The woman I spoke to was very helpful and courteous to me only confused me even more when telling me how I could fill out form N224(?) and apply to the district judge to have this claim cancelled off and a new one issued with the accurate claim amount, etc., etc. My head is spinning with it all now. I feel like I have made so many errors (small or large) along the way that I feel like giving it up. Guess I'll just have to try my best - with your help!! Fasttrack? If it goes down this route and the worse case scenario happened would I be liable to £thousands of legal fees "accrued" by RBOS with their solicitors or is there still some sort of cap? This REALLY worries me as I know (or believe) that this would not be an issue if it stays in the small claims court. Probably end up having a coronary before this is sorted!!!!!

mrsfoot/rory32, Thanks again for the advice and words of encouragement. Fingers crossed all will work out. I have managed to track down (I'm useless with paperwork!!) about a year's worth of statements for the accounts for which I am claiming back charges on. Is it worthwhile sending copies of these - indicating the charges - to the banks solicitors and the court as "proof" of why I am claiming, what I am claiming and as a basis for my estimation to date until such time (IF!) the bank returns copies of my statements or lists of charges? One of my biggest concerns at the moment is now I have been informed - through MCOL - that the case is going to court due to the defendant's defence, and my claim is estimated is that it will be pushed through on fast track and not through small claims that would make me eligible for their fees should I lose. Is there anyway I can request the small claims court? I know the estimate is much bigger than the real sum paid in fees but was worked out on the basis of having x number of statements and multiplying up to work out ann "estimated" figure. Looking through the request for information again last night, the bank's solicitors have asked the following: "In relation to each charge, please clarify the following: (a) is it the case of the claimant the same should not have been charged? (b) If yes; please explain why the claimant contends the same should not have been charged? © If no; is it the case of the claimant that the same should not have been charged in this amount? (d) If yes; please explain why the claimant contends that the same should not have been charged in this amount and identify the sum of the claimant contends should have been charged. (e) If no; please state the claimant's case. In respect of the above, do I agree I should have been charged but contend the amount I have been charged and as for the identification of the sum, use the kind of wording as MRSFOOT has suggested? 4.1 Please specify the clause(s) pursuant to which the charges were applied; 4.2 Please specify whether the charges applied were due to a breach of contract by the claimant; DO I ANSWER YES?? 4.3 Please identify in each case the particular breach of contact (by reference to the appropriate term(s) of the contract that the charge related to. DO I REFER THEM TO THE INSTANCES OF THE CHARGES ON THE STATEMENTS I DO HAVE? 5. In your claim you state that the charges are contrary to the UTCCR 1999. 6. Please specify all of the facts relied on by the defendant in support of the contentions in Para.5 above, and in particular please identify the contractual provision(s) that the claimant alleges are invalid by reference to the regulations. Huh?? Once again, can't thank you both enough. I know some of this post MRSFOOT has kind of answered already but I though that I'd post the actual requirements by the solicitors and get it right this time!

Thanks for the help, support and advice, guys. I have today sent off the SAR to the bank and have written a letter to their solicitors - not yet sent as I was after more advice. The solicitors have requested more information (as posted) including section whereby they are trying to get me to admit to whether I believe I should have been charged or not, and if yes, how much do I believe I should have been charged!! Do I respond to this at all? If I respond should I agree that I should have been charged for being in breach of contract (that guy who lost ansswered "no" did he not??) and as for the chargeable amount just stick to the "reasonable" charge as quoted in the Acts? Is it also advisible to highlight to the solicitors that I will need more time than the 31st May to respond with a breakdown of charges due to their client not supplying me (when requested) with copies of statements/charges, hence the need for me to request them now via SAR? Should I send duplicate copies of letters to the court? In their statement of defence I find it difficult not to respond on points they raise - should I refrain from responding apart from the specific request for information section? Sorry for all the obvious(?) questions but I am feeling really overwhelmed - points about being unprepared accepted. If I am to not make this another victory for the banks, though, I could do with any help, advice and support that you can to make sure I am succesful and if nothing else, highlight my failings to alert others who are only just starting out. Thanks to you all so far....

Please can someone help me with regards to the following? I am feeling really stressed and unprepared now - partly through my own ignorance and belief the bank would have paid up by now. After sending a letter for a full refund to my bank based on an estimated amount they did not respond (not even to send copies of statements/charges within 14 days of the receipt of the letter if they disagreed with the claim). Consequently I made a claim via MCOL. The bank's solicitor's have now responded - amongst other points - that the Particulars of Claim are unreasonable grounds, etc., and requesting full breakdown of the charges by 31 May else they will request the court strikes off my claim. I do not have copies of statements/charges for the past 6 years. What is my best course of action? They have asked me to contact them and explain why I cannot provide the requested information by the 31 May (originally the date by which they had to enter a defence) - should I do this citing part of the template that I (stupidly) SHOULD have used on the Particular of Claim section, and request copies of all statements/charges through the Data Protection route? I am also concerned they are going on about my contract with the bank and breach of contract. I have no copy of contact from when the accounts were opened. Could I request a copy? Should I request a copy? I don't want to lose this valid claim as they bank is way out of order - prime example, November 2006 they charged me over £450 in one month!!! As it currently stands the ESTIMATED claim on the MCOL form was for over £9000 - I know it is NOT this high as it is estimated. My concern is if this goes to court as it currently stands. Some posts/threads seem to indicate that if over £5000 and it goes to court it may go to a high court and not a county court and if I did/do lose I may be eligible for paying the banks legal fees. Have I screwed up? I made the claim through MCOL because I believed the limit for claim to be £100k (less a penny). I can't aford legal costs. Now the banks have had one legal victory through the courts and I am (admittedly) not as prepared as I could/should be - I am worried I may lose my claim and (at worse) end up paying legal costs!!! I am new to this site and this is my 1st post...please, some advice would be useful. Thank you and good luck to one and all. Mark