Hi Guys Need some advice, just had a letter from the court stating my case will be struck out as there is no power under 6(2)b of the Unfair Contract Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 to assess the fairness of those charges. I need to know what grounds can I fight them, i.e. what amendments do I need to make to fight them and what grounds do I use? And is it worth fighting or shall I just throw in the towel now? Thanks in advance Richard.

Hi All Latest developments. On 15th June I received a red final demand from wescot to pay up, so I phoned and informed them that the case was still in court and that nothing could happen until that was sorted. They informed me that if I didn't pay they would send collection personnel to my door, I said I would have them arrested if they tried to step inside, etc. They said they would start court proceedings against me. So I told them that that would not proceed as my case was already there, they then said that they had been informed by their client (HSBC) that they had won and I has to pay up. The conversation went no further. This had me worried though, so I trotted down the the court and asked there, the last action of any type on the case was my letter in April informing the court that I still wished to pursue the case but in light of the test case I would like to amend the case. Before this the last action was the stay in 2007. Today I received a letter from wescot's solicitors telling me that if I didn't pay within 10 days I would be taken to court and to contact wescot to arrange payment, so I called wescot and told them that I had been to the court and the case was still active etc and that if they attempted to take me to court they would run smack into my case that was already there. I know I'm right in this, I was just wondering if there might be a case for harrasment in here somewhere? And is there any news on the amendments to court case that I need to amend my case and get this finished? Rich

Thought I'd include a first draft of my proposed letter, what do you think? ** Dear Susan Loker Thank you for your letter dated 19th April 2010, Having read the judgemnt of the court I’m sorry to inform you that the information you provided in your letter is not correct. I will quote the judgement here for your information Issues before the judge 8. As already indicated, the principal issue before the judge was whether the OFT is entitled to carry out an assessment of the fairness of the Relevant Charges. It is not in dispute that it is for the Banks to show that the case falls within regulation 6(2)(b) of the 1999 Regulations. At [33] of his judgment the judge identified the first question as being whether assessment of fairness is prohibited because it would “relate … to the adequacy of the price or remuneration, as against the goods or services supplied in exchange” within the meaning of regulation 6(2)(b) of the 1999 Regulations. In this connection he identified the third question as being whether, if and in so far as regulation 6(2) applies, the protection afforded to the Banks is that the particular term is not to be assessed for fairness (the ‘excluded term’ construction) or whether the Banks are protected against a particular type of assessment (the ‘excluded assessment’ construction). 9. However, he also considered (among other things) whether specific contractual terms are in “plain intelligible language” and whether any of the terms giving rise to charges is a penalty at common law: see the second question identified at [33] and [35]. As you can see no mention is made in regard to regulation 5(1) of the UTCCRs in this. Lord Phillips indicated in his summing up that this finding did not preclude the use of 5(1). I’m not sure whether your letter was a mistake or an intentional attempt to force me to drop my complaint, however I will be copying this letter as well as copies of your letter to the FOS and FSA as part of a complaint regarding your handling of my complaint. ** Thanks again Rich

Hi All Trying to work out my response to the letter from HSBC, the more I think about it, especially with the news today about the banks getting their hands slapped for the complaints procedure. The bank lied to me in their letter as I understand it, do you think it's worth writing to the FSA or the FOS in regard to this with a copy of the HSBC letter pointing out the lie and requesting their assistance in the case etc? On a side note how are the new court strategies coming along? Holding HSBC off at the moment but would love to take them to court. Rich PS ignore my grammatical errors, only had 4 hours sleep

Hi Guys Latest update Just received a letter from HSBC informing me (in short, though it was a 3 page letter) that they consider the matter closed. In response you have stated that although the charges could not be assessed under regulation 6(2)b of the UTCCRs they are not precluded from assessment under regulation 5(1) of the UTCCRs. The Office of Fair Trading, which brought the bank charges test case against various banks have challenged informal overdraft charges on two grounds, namely that@ (a) they constitute penalties at common law; and (b) they are unfair under regulation 5(1) of the UTCCRs on the basis that they are too high. As has now been definitively determined, neither of these two challenges is open to the OFT or consumers. The rest is more or less waffle. The question is where do I stand? Rich

Cheers CB Time has been bought, besides no real rush, I'm getting 8% and I can't get that anywhere else Rich

Hi All!! Just a quick question. I'll fill in some details first though. As it stands now my case is still stayed in court, I have informed the court, HSBC and DG that I still wish to persue the case but that I will be amending my claim in court to take account of the results of the test case. My question is how do I change my claim and what leagal issues should I use in the amended claim? and can I increase the ammount I'm claiming for, as since the case has been stayed in court for 2 1/2 years now there are some additional charges that I can claim for (that arrived before I parachuted to another bank). Thanks Rich

Hi all I'm in pretty much the same position as the good Mr Badger here, sent a letter to HSBC, DG and the court. My question is how do I go about changing my claim at the court and, as I received more charges after this claim got to court, can I include additional charges as I'm amending the claim? Cheers Rich

Hi All Well today I got my letter from MCS, the usual, pay blaa blaa within 7 days or else... The letter was dated 11th March and arrived today, 19th March and gave me 7 days from the date of the letter to respond... So I gave them a call and both barrels Although I first asked if they were recording the call, when She said yes, I said good, I won't have to repeat myself then She told me I would receive no more letters or calls untill after the test case was resolved Rich

Hi all again Today's latest news. My "debt" has now been passed to Metropolitan, they just called me to arrange repayment.... The phone call didn't go as the guy planned I informed him that the debt was in dispute and in court, and had been in court since August 2007, and as such they could not attempt to collect on it and it should be passed back to HSBC, I also requested all further communication to be in writing and any further phone calls I would consider as harassment About right?

Latest developments Hi all, again I resolved the phone calls issue by threatening to go to the FSO with a formal complaint, the no longer phone me about my debt I am now trying to stop the automatic letters telling me my account is overdrawn and to repay or contact them within 28 days with a solution. I have been ignoring these for about a year or so, but decided in January that I'd had enough, so phoned them and informed them that this continued demands for repayment of an account that was in dispute and in court was illegal and amounted to harrasment and that if it didn't stop I'd make a formal complaint to the FSO about harassment from HSBC (essentially the same as I threatend about the phone calls). I received a reply appologising about the letters, but they were not ment as harassment and were automatic and that if they didn't hear back from me within 8 weeks they would consider the matter closed. That was dated 07/01/09. Today i received a letter that was a Final Demand. If I did not repay the bedt within 7 days or offer a satisfactory instalment plan they would take action that would include debt collectors, solicitors and court action, as well as making refrences on my credit reference. This letter came from Helen Packwood. Just looking for a bit of advice, I'm not worried about the debt collectors or solicitors or court action, will look forward to a day in court actually, would be rather fun it's the credit reference and advice about making a formal complaint to the FSO really. Thanks in advance Rich

It's the credit reference that bothers me most, as a trip to court would be an absolute pleasure!! I know they can't make reference in principle, but they probably do, can i request from the bank the details of all references they have made to credit reference agencies? Cheers

They are threatening withdrawal of banking facilities, enforcement of any security and credit reference

Now i get a threatening letter from HSBC... time to make a second complaint in 2 days

And another one today... Now been into my branch with a copy of the letter (thanks johnnymitch) and made a formal complaint and gave them the letter, getting a receipt Hopefully this will stop it.... we shall see...

2 more calls today... well had enough of this now

Hi Guys Just after a little advice, but I'll put in a little background first. I work in a shop, so can't answer my mobile phone whenever it rings, sometimes i can, sometimes not. On Monday, just before lunch HSBC phones me (got their number programmed into my phone so I know when they phone) but I can't answer it, they phone again in the evening and inform me that my account it delinquent as it has had no activity in the last 30 days (I moved all my banking to another bank as any money I paid into HSBC was swallowed by the overdraft that i'm contesting) I politly explained to the lady from HSBC that I was contesting it, and my case was in court and stayed, I explained the whole situation to her and gave dates that it started etc (just over a year ago) and I then explained that I wouldn't be using the account in any way, shape or form anyway, and that HSBC couln't do anything to enforce it. She was polite and helpful and said she would put some notes on the account to explain this. I also asked them to stop phoneing me as I frequently can't answer at work and I have nothing to talk to them about anyway as it is all in court. I thought this was the end of the matter... On Tuesday I got another call from HSBC on my mobile while I was at work, i couldn't answer, then a second that I did answer, but after about 3 seconds of silence it went dead... then a third call that i did answer and this time got a guy from HSBC who wanted to talk about my other HSBC account... I was a bit annoyed as this made 5 calls in about 24 hours and I thought I had sorted this all on Monday. So i gave him an abridged version of the information as I didn't have all the details with me at work, and finially explained to him that i thought 5 calls in 24 hours was excessive and if I received any more calls in the near future I would make a complaint for harrasment to the financial services ombudsman, and was very clear on this. On Wednesday, at work I received calls... the first i couldn't answer, the next 2 went dead and the fourth i received at home and I talked to a man. I explained to him that this was the nineth call from HSBC in about 48 hours. He wanted to talk about the account i talked about on Monday. so, politly, i explained to him that I had already explained all of this, and that 9 calls in just over 48 hours was excessive and i considered it as harrasment and would be making a complaint to the financial services ombudsman. The advice I'm after is, one was i correct? and who do I complain to? straight to the FSO or somewhere else first? Thanks

That's what I did, new accounts been running for nearly a year now, and not a single charge HSBC still occasionally demand i pay off my overdraft but they never get anywhere. And cause my pay goes into my new account, and my bills go out of my new account i accrue no more charges from HSBC, just interest on the overdraft, which will all be refunded in then end. I don't think HSBC like it very much, but all they can do is take me to court, which is exactly where I want to go, so they are stuck

Not signed by him, but says please ask for Jason Newbold in the letter

Hi guys, I finally got a reply from DG Dear Sir Yourself -v- HSBC Bank plc Claim Number: YYYYYYYYY We refer to your letter of 30th May 2008. We advise that due to an administrative error our letter of 28th May 2008 quoted the incorrect claim number. It should have refered to your claim number XXXXXX and not the above claim. For the avoidance of doubt, your above claim has been stayed and the position remains the same as outlined in our letter of 22nd August 2007. Yours faithfully DG This is ironic, but also whoever wrote this has a poor grasp of English. For clarity, as I'm hiding the claim numbers, claim YYYYYY was finished over a year and a half ago, claim XXXXXX is stayed. They say the letter of 28th May 2008 should have refered to claim XXXXXX not the above claim (YYYYYYY).... ok.... Aren't they trying to explain that this was the other way around....

Hi Guys, Just had a call from the delightful HSBC telling me that I haven't paid any money into my account, and that if i didn't do so they might close the account. I told them I had no intention of paying any money in, at any time as more than the amount of the debt is currently contested in court, and if they closed it, referd me to a credit refrence agency or sold the debt to a collection agency I would take them to court again, the guy on the phone got argumentitive with me and kept butting in, i don't think he enjoyed the conversation, i did I assume I was right in what I said?

Hi Guys Now the 16th June and still no response from DG, will keep you all informed, though I think this will just disappear and be ignored...

I totally agree, 1 person, a mistake, 2 possibly a mistake, but 4, or more, no chance. Let me know how you get on with your stay, I'm thinking of going down this route too.

I got exactly the same letter http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/144632-me-hsbc.html#post1545772 I have my response there as well

Got a strange letter from DG solicitors today, I'll quote the whole thing Dear Sir Re: Yourself -v- HSBC Bank Plc Claim number ******** We act for HSBC Bank Plc in relation to the above detailed claim that you have issued. In this respect, we are pleased to note that settlement has been agreed direct with our client and that settlement funds have now been paid to you. If you have not notified the Court, we shall be pleased if you will write to the Court, quoting your claim number, to confirm that the matter has been settled. Whilst writing, in relation to conclusion of the matter, we shall be pleased if you sign and return the enclosed copy of this letter to us for our records. Yours faithfully DG SOLICITORS I confirm that agreed settlement funds have been received from the defendant and that my County Court claim is concluded. Signed.................................... Dated................. Claimant Just to clear up, I have not had any contact from HSBC or DG Solicitors since the stay was granted last year... I have not had an agreement from them. The only thing I agreed to was to pay off my overdraft at £25 a month, but after the advice I got here I have stopped that before it started. I think DG heard I entered into an agreement to pay off the overdraft and assumed that I had agreed a settlement... lol I have drafted this response. Dear Mr Newbold Re : Myself-v- HSBC Bank Plc Claim number : ******** Thank you for your letter dated 28th May and I'm very pleased to note that your client has agreed to pay my claim. I am unaware of any settlement offer by your client and no monies have been paid into my account. Perhaps you could give me further information. You may wish to know that the current amount of my claim is £882.58 (which includes statutory interest up and till today) I look forward to your reply and your advice as to when I will receive the monies. Once I have received payment I will be happy to inform the court that the case is settled. Yours sincerely XXXXXXXXXXXXXX