Very disappointing. It seems more and more power to the Banks. Banks won the unfair charging case, now banks can change terms and conditions "for any valid reason" with only 30 days notice. OFT should change its name to the Office for the Protection of the Banking Industry. The greatest [problem] ever, make sure people can not survive without your service, make sure your service costs you zero (print money for free), make sure your can charge what you want and that any group set up to regulate you have absolutely no power over you. Something something DARK SIDE !!

p.s. for a garnishee order, as I understand it, you need to have a court judgment against you in the first place. (will bow to better knowledge here however)

That letter is perfect I would send that immediately. My experience is that they will not relent however and will just ignore it. Call Trading Standards on them, clearly a breach of the OFT guidelines 2.4 (f), 2.6 (g). Tell bcw about those breaches. Also they cant arrest anything....clearly the muppet that wrote the letter has no understanding of law they need to apply to court for this. Have you requested a copy of your contract ?

I have note heard a pip from Trading standards since reporting CSL but they have at last stopped sending me stupid letters every day. CSL that is. I know how the industry works, the people on the phone at first line are as good as 'brainwashed'. They are taught in training that the people they are sending letters to are thieves, con artists, bad people that should pay debts. They are also only taught 'deflection' techniques that is aimed at one thing only, getting you to pay money regardless of any legal stand point. They are not taught to interpret law or understand law or engage with you as a person with legal rights and they certainly do not treat you as a customer. Example 1: In traning the agents ask's 'many people are calling and claiming that thier Student Loan is statute barred' traineer resposne 'its government money so it cant be statue barred'.....and away they go. Example 2: With another DCA I called them and requested a statement, the agent said they did not have to, I said under reg x,y & z you do. Agent tried to deflect my call saying you should pay the money in total then you will not need a statement. After tooing and frooing I said fine we are getting nowhere, please provide me your details so I can contact Trading Standards. At which point Manger x comes on the phone, yes we will send you what you need. Call CSL as many times as possible and discuss legal terminology with them and you will always get the same response....its government money so its outside the legal frame works. We all know that is wrong. So until they send me (as legaly obligied to do so) copies of all communication between myself and the SLC in regards to the supposed debt, as well as proof of a contract which substanitates thier claim the Student Loans are 'not agreed under the CCA1974' and the '1980 limitation act' and hence prove I owe a debt I will do nothing and every time they send me a letter or talk twaddle on the phone I will continue to record every breach of regulations and continue to fight them.

do you have a debit card? They can take payment from there for free. Cheque book or even a postal cheque would be cheaper, there about .50p. Again in the OFT guidelines this is an example of unfair practice, sounding like a broken record here, section 2.10. a, claiming costs from a debtor in the abesence of express contractual or other legal provision, b, misledaing debtors into believing they are legally liable to pay collection charges when this is not the case. d, could also be loosely interpreted. Basically there is no reason that you should be paying charges to pay off a debt. Call Trading Standards and complain.

Please read the following document http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/bus...dit/oft664.pdf This gives you a starting point to understand your rights when dealing with a DCA. Remember these guys are bullies and the only way to play the game is to understand you rights and be confident in dealing with them. Dont get angry, get even, it can be scary but ensure your learn your rights and defend them. False representation of authority and/or legal position - Section 2.4 B) falsely implying or stating that action can or will be taken when it legally cannot, for example, referring to bankruptcy or sequestration proceedings when the balance is too low to qualify for such proceedings or claiming a right of entry when no court order to this effect has been granted E) falsely implying or stating that failure to pay a debt is a criminal offence or that criminal proceedings will be brought Physical/psychological harassment 2.5 Putting pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive 2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:b. pressurising debtors to sell property, to raise funds by further borrowing or to extend their borrowing Print of the following letter 2 or 3 times, stick one on your door and read it to any visitor for a DCA, then hand them a copy through the letter box. http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/591-dca-home-visit-if-you-receive-or-are-threatened-with-a-doorstep-visit- You are under no obligation whatsoever to talk to them at the door. Tell them that if they continue you will report them to the Office for Fair Trading as they are in breach of OFT guidlines. Call Halifax and inform them that you are doing this "If consumer credit licence holders choose to do business or continue to do business with third parties engaged in questionable fitness behaviour, then their own fitness will be called into question." This should buy you the breathing space you need to get a repayment process in place. 2nd, by defending your self you will get more respect from the DCA and they will start to treat you like a human being, if only just. One last piece of advice, always record your conversations, tell them you are recording the conversion. I do this on every call and have never been stopped by a DCA from doing so.

Anybody having any results with FOS?

Its just wrong, very wrong that people are now only in positions to repay the interest on the debt and not make any headway into repaying the principle, this is exactly what the bank want, they don't make any money on the principle just the interest as money only exists as debt. Please let us know what happens we must continue to flag, protest and do all we can to stop Halifax milking thier more unfortunate customers.

yup will email as well. Already spoke to Trading standards, but again these guys told me the Student Loans were not covered by the 1974 CCA due to section 16, which I have checked and not at all sure he is right. I told him if that if that was the case fine, but they still need to send me a legit copy of my contract to clarify a) ownership of the debt b) my rights c) confirm the debt with a full break down of all costs and all charges. I stressed to the guy that my compliant is purely about 'harassment' and that I have no legal complaint other then they are not biding by OFT regulations and ignoring my legal rights as outlined in section 5 and that the burden of proof is on the creditor to prove that the debt isn't statue barred. On those we did at least agree. They have also whopped an extra £1000 odd pounds onto the debt now with Overdue and Arrears being different. So CCA request and a SAR request. Almost at the truth and glad I took a stand, the DCA are just a bunch of bullys that lie, cheat and misrepresent the law.

Will be contacting Trading Standards today. Yesterday I was informed that the student loan was a government debt and therefore exempt from the provisions of the 1980 CCA. I asked the gentleman if he had a copy of my contract, which he did not. I asked him how he was therefore able to make such as a statement and was he aware he was engaging in 'Unfair business practice'. Also proceeded to discuss Section 2.14 of the OFT guidelines, which he dismissed as rubbish and that I can talk all the Legal jargon I want but it did not detract from the fact that I owed the money, had to pay and that he could not understand why I was trying to worm my way out of paying. Today they stepped up a notch and sent the 72hrs or we advise our customer to take legal action.

using the templates from CAG is a great start. Speak to the National Debt line, see if you can get this account closed and get the debt on a repayment scheme with no interest. CAB can help with putting together an offer for the Bank. Once in offer they should cease to put interest on the debt. At the moment they are just milking you, if you are genuinely in financial hardship you can agree to a repayment scheme that is fair. They backed of because they know in court you will win. Usually if you have a good income and expenses break down, which you can prove, Judges will ensure you pay priory debts first, followed by non priority. Overdrafts are non priority. I have the same discussion every month, can you increase your payments, no, ok thanks. Need somebody with a good legal knowledge of the CCA for Overdrafts but if they terminate the agreement then I suspect they terminate the right to collect interest hence forth (Please do not expect that to be true I'm guessing). If you genuinely want to pay this debt back and have just been servicing the debt tell Halifax that you which to agree to a repayment schedule for the Overdraft and that under your circumstances all interest payments from this point onward must be also terminated. Good luck... lets know how you get on so we can continue to offer advise to others.

Also interestingly using more than one debt collection business at the same time resulting in repetitive and/or frequent contact by different parties !! Power to contact and CSL ! Kurvface will like that clause. Thanks cerberusalert great link. Also do you know, do I have to contact the SLC or by informing CSL of the situation are they now obliged to respond on their clients behalf ? I have only sent the Statue Barred to CSL not the SLC.

I understand completely, I will honour what I need to legally and running does not help it makes it worse. Its cases like yours that make me so angry with the banks as they do not help you but lets help you if we can and most importantly help yourself. The first thing I would do is write down an accurate time line of your problems. I am confused as the default came in November, but the charges did not happen until December? I am reading the thread as this, I send apologies if this is not the case I am trying to help, hence asking for the info. You have an overdraft which went over the limit and you were not able to bring it back within your agreed facility. The bank requested you return to your limit and as you have not been able to accommodate the bank has therefore terminated your overdraft facility and passed the account to the debt recovery team. This is standard practise as I understand it. In response you have offered a payment which will bring the account back within the arrangement by November 2010. As you overdraft is £5000 and you can only offer £50 a month repayment it would be clear that you are not able to support such a facility, it would be against best practice for the bank to continue to offer you this facility based on your financial situation. As you are not able to even pay the fees back I can only conclude that you are not able to use the OD on a regular basis anyway or you are not paying it back but living inside it each month. You are living on borrowed money and paying for it each month, this is not economical viable for you. Unfortunately its not viable for the bank as you have defaulted, up to then they had no issue despite your financial situation but once you start missing the payments the gloves are off. If what I say above is anything like your circumstances then I urge you to put together a time line of your problems with the bank. Put together all the letters you have sent and received and get along to the CAB and call the National Debt Line. The banks may have screwed up with the default notices but you have to face the bigger picture that £5K is a lot of money and you are looking at 10years of repaying a debt, so regardless of whether the facility continues of not you need to get rid of it in the best possible way for you. The reason I say this is that I pay no interest on my debt. I pay £40 per month and because it has been going on for 2 years they were prepared to knock a £1000 off so I paid in one chunk. No interest and a £1000 discount.........that is the route to go but you need the proper advice and you need to present your case to the bank. One last piece of advice, the Bank know that if your situation is difficult no judge in the land will rule a higher fee and you should push for no interest to be charged. Do the right thing otherwise they may default on you and this will go on your credit file. It shows up on mine as big 8 and my credit score is -250 from where is should be as a result. let me know your thoughts ?

I'm being harassed by CSL and Power to Contact. I have sent the statue barred letter and told them as the agent of SLC they need to pass those details on. CSL told me yesterday on a phone call that the SLC had not got back to them on the Stature Barred situation so they will keep pursuing the debt. I told them yesterday that I have made my position very clear, until I receive an official legal response to the 'statue barred' situation I do not need to contact them or engage in any phone calls and that it is illegal to turn up at my house and as such I will phone the police. Chap agreed, said that If I was unhappy I can contact trading standards. I am trying to following the legal route but they just do not seem to want to play. I think its very simple. Company x creates a credit agreement under the 1980 act, customer x signs the agreement. Company x fails to pursue the debt and after 7years period they pass the debt to company A. Company A pursues customer x for the debt. Customer x informs Company A that under the credit consumer act 1980 he believes the debt is non-enforceable. Company A ignores the law and continues to pursue the debt. Does anybody have any understanding of when legally they have to acknowledge statue barred ? I understood it to be 14 days ? Its been about a month for me ?

Hi can I ask you the background to this please so I can offer some advice ?Exactly how did you defaulted on an overdraft? From what I am reading here you went over your Overdraft limit and took no action to bring it back under the agreed limit. Not judging you just trying to understand exactly what happened. It is a very large overdraft and £50pcm is very small. You are looking at 10years to pay this debt off and that does not include any charges. The reason I am asking is that there are approaches you can take here but it really depends on your personal situation and how you got into this situation. I have first hand experience of this so can run you through some pit falls and options but the decisions you make right now will affect how this turns out. My credit rating has been destroyed by a similar problem and I am having to work very hard to repair it, I hope to advise you so you don't make the same mistakes I did. Finally, last comment I would make for the Bigger picture do pursue the FSA, FOS etc but please do not rely on them for help right now, you will be on your own here but CAG will help.

Arrghhh. just wrote a long post and pressed back space by accident and lost it....!! Anyway can't type it all again but I wanted to share the following: 1) Halifax told me that the overdraft charges apply to all accounts whether you have upgraded or not. 2) If you don't upgrade, like me you, don't get your £5pcm. 3) You can upgrade to the 'Ultimate account' and cancel it any time as long as a) You do not use any of the facilities on the account with the exception of the overdraft. b) If you do cancel and downgrade your account you may lose the £300 overdraft so you need to be in a position to pay that off. c) If you use any of the insurance or other supposed free bees you can not get out of those agreements for one year or change account. I asked for the T&C's to be sent to me and made it clear to the gentleman on the phone I was only considering an upgrade because for the next couple of months I need to use an overdraft and it would be cheaper be on the Ultimate account. I will have the money to pay the overdraft back in April and intend to close my overdraft at that date, so I would want to move away from an Ultimate reward account. I did not want any of the other facilities on the account but that £7.5 cost of the account was cheaper than the £25 I paid in Feb on charges. The chap agreed. I have so far only received from Halifax a letter telling me that I wanted to move to the reward account and as such I needed to sign and return this letter. No T&C's like I requested. I have requested twice now and they have never turned up. Conclusion I am making from this is that the idea you can move accounts and the power is with the consumer is bogus. If I sign up to an account I'm stuck with it paying £12.50 pcm. That is not exactly consumer freedom and the bank do not seem to want to give me my T&C's before I agree and the call centre people to be honest do not seem to understand the legalities or what it is your signing up to. You are supposed to be able to cancel your bank account and move to any other supplier at any time, that is the point of fair competition, if Banks move to this model we could face the situation where you are stuck with your bank for 'n' period of time, like a mobile phone. Question I have to the forum is if you upgrade to the 'Ultimate' account and take out the Insurance for example why are you stuck with the reward account, who owns that debt...Anybody have a copy of the T&C's or know where I can get a copy to study ? Also Your need to be aware you may not get the full £300 fee-free overdraft.

Received a response from the Government today: Read the Government’s response The Government is aware that some banks have made changes to current account charging structures, but it is important to stress that the Government does not set terms and conditions for personal current accounts. Some concern has been expressed that a flat daily fee may make overdraft borrowing more expensive. That is likely to depend on the way that consumers manage their account. Some consumers will be better off and others may pay more for overdraft facilities depending on the pattern of their borrowing. The Office of Fair Trading (OFT) announced, in October 2009, that it has reached an agreement with the main retail banks to make personal current account costs more transparent and the process of switching accounts easier. This follows the OFT’s 2008 market study, which identified a number of problems including hidden costs to consumers through opaque charging structures, which meant that the market did not work well for consumers. Borrowers who may be adversely affected may wish to consult their bank about the best account to suit their needs, and how to minimise their exposure to overdraft fees. Alternatively they may wish to look more widely across the personal current account market. The OFT is taking steps to help consumers understand and compare the costs of bank accounts through new advice and tools, including an interest calculator on its Consumer Direct website at: Consumer Direct. In addition, if any customer is dissatisfied with how their bank has dealt with a complaint, the Financial Ombudsman Service may be able to help. They can be contacted on 0300 123 9123 or at complaint.info@financial-ombudsman.org.uk.

I contacted CSL and asked them if they owned the debt. They said they did not so I said I did not have to deal with them and sent them a Statue Barred letter. I recieved a letter 7days ago telling me that they will no longer be contacting me and that I should speak to the Student Loan Company directly, as I do not own the debt I will not. Two days ago they sent me a txt asking me to call them which I have not yet so will contact Trading standards if they harrase me. FYI.... Do not discuss any matters on the phone with them at all, you do not need to reveal any information what so ever and remember you are in control. Learn about your rights and read the other forums, everything that is going on here is simple contract law. Get your Student Loan contract out, read it and learn it. Any contact you make ensure you log it somewhere, I have a word doc that details all correspondance. Do not give any information about anything at this time, make a Subject Access Request to ensure you have a, the orignal contracts with your signature, b, a list of all interactions between the two contracting parties. Ensure you tell CSL that you wish to understand the situation and explore who owns this debt, do not acknowledge the debt until you have all the documents that they legally have to supply you with. Get the mind set correct, you are protected by law, get your information corrrect, own up to nothing, give away nothing. Take the power back, this is not easy and can be frieghting but always behave within the law and if it does transpire that you do own the debt, well its your obligation to repay, if you do not own the debt then it is not your obligation, but dont be tricked into owning it. Simples

Kurfvaface - CAG hero !!! I'm just starting the same process with CSL for my Student loan, great advice here. The chap I spoke to at CSL did not even know what a SAR or Statue Barred was !!

Great thread, I've recently received a letter from CSL followed up by Power2contract saying they are sending somebody over. I told them on the phone that the Debt is Statue Barred. The loans are from 96 & 97 and I last spoke to them in 2002 when I deffered for a year and have not heard from them since. Sending the Statue Barred letter today and will see what happens.

Hi, what was the outcome here ?

Blueotter: I think you should be able to get any cash card account with a bad credit score. I have a 3 year old default on my credit score that I am paying off but as its on my record nobody else will give me the facilities I have with Halifax, i.e. Overdraft and a debit card. If you want to move account to get rid of the overdraft charges from Halifax good luck and please let us know if you have any success. I have had none.

Thanks Angel, keep trying. I lost all faith when the OFT caved in to the bank charges. Unfortunately we live in a Bankocracy, Banks rule the world and governments pass the laws to make it easier for them and thier cronies to deprive us of our money and our rights. Until this congontive dissonance on what is really happening in the world is passed we are stuffed. My conclusion......save, save & save until I have paid every last penny back and then use banks purley as a checking account for my salary. Sorry about the rant. Meanwhile im thinking once my debt is paid I will use the post office and continue to investigate how you can get around BACS salary payments. Good luck and if I can help please let me know, Economics, Banks and Central Banking is my forte.

Got turned down for an account by Nationwide, only offerd me a cash card which is no use for me. So I'm stuck with the Halifax, seems there is nothing I can do. So will have to suck it up for the time being and start saving like a saving beast fueld by saving juice.

I believe they launched a different account a while back that you paid for that had these charges, the fuss is that most of us never chose to have this account, we also dont chose to have these fees imposed on us but may not always be able to transfer banks.