It is from 14/09/11, only gone to court once as far as I'm aware as I only have one lot of papers saying that and the letter I got over the weekend was the warrant.

I came home today to find a 'Notice of seizure of goods & inventory' posted through my letter box. However, it wasn't until my husband came home that we realised the car had actually been clamped. As you can imagine I feel very sick at the moment. My problem is that they don't appear to have followed the correct procedure and not only that the charges that they are claiming seem to be horrendous. This is for a pcn that I forgot about - I know that isn't a defence. I received a letter from them over the weekend stating that I had 7 days to get in touch with them in order to arrange payment - to which I was going to reply to by asking them to give me a breakdown of their charges and arrange to pay. So, why on earth did they feel the need to turn up today and clamp my car, loading the charges without making a first or second call beforehand. I wonder if someone can please advise. The pcn is £202, the charges they have added are £286.20 plus VAT of £57.24 making a grand total of £545.44. Interestingly the continuing charges have been crossed out. I feel absolutely sick and angry as we don't seem to have been given the right to reply as we should have been. If someone can give me some indication of how I should deal with this, bearing in mind that I can't afford to pay this off in one go, it would be very much appreciated. Thanks in advance

Thanks Rebel, I'm going to have a good look at it the info now.

Hi All and sorry fot the lengthy thread My husband and I moved into a new house at the end of October after being coerced into taking on the lease from the 21st October for 12 months; i.e. we paid for a week that we have not lived in the building. We wanted it to start from the day we moved in (i.e. the 27th Oct) but this was unacceptable to the landlord and we had to agree on something as I had been offered a job in the city and we were moving from Staffordshire, it was one less thing to worry about. We decided to go private as both of us were made bankrupt several years ago and most of the agents wanted us to pay stupid deposits. Anyway, we had our usual text from her yesterday asking when the money was going to be paid. As usual we responded with my pay date as my husband is still actively seeking permanent work and has only been working temporarily very sporadically - meaning we haven't yet had the chance to build up the rent needed to pay it before it is actually due. She then responded by saying that if that was the case then we would have to find £1250 by the end of the month instead of the £1000 due. If we pay and my husband doesn't work for a couple of weeks then that means we have £150 to live on for the month and I will still have to get my travel ticket out of that leaving us not very much. Incidently even if he signs on, the tax office have messed his NIC's up in the qualifying year that the employment agency are looking at and they decided before christmas that he wasn't entitled to anything. Besides all of that, my parents have suggested that the house we are renting doesn't comply with the new rental laws that came into force last year. And I must admit I have to agree. The day we moved in, the house was still a mess, jobs that were promised to be done were never completed and my dad pointed out that we shouldn't use the shower because it isn't isolated (not to mention that it only doesn't work properly anyway as it only pumps out cold water - we are having to take a bath). However I can't find any information that relates to this new legislation and I wish to point a few things out to her when I email her later. In other words - why should we be bullied by you to pay the rent (and quite honestly with the amount of times she's either texted or rung, and at the times they have occured over the last 12 hours amounts to nothing less than harrassment), when the jobs that you not only promised to do but also those that need to be done have not been completed? I also believe that we should be given a gas certificate to show all gas appliances have been tested which should be annual (we bought our own cooker once we'd moved because the one they were going to leave must have been about 30 years old and caked with dirt), an electrical test certificate - again annual, a rent book and complete information about the landlord, i.e. where they live, etc. I should also have been given evidence that my deposit was paid into an account to accrue interest. Is that right? We also have an infestation of mice - which now makes me suspiscious why they closed off the basement in the first place, no smoke or CO2 detectors and polystyrene tiles on the hall ceiling which have yet to be removed. And they want us to feel at home in the place by making it ours! The thing is I am even more suspicious that our deposit has been used for something else because if they had it why would they be giving us so much hassle to pay on the 21st. They knew our position when we moved in and surely it is up to them to make a contingency to pay the mortgage - which you can guarantee won't be as much as the rent they're charging us - instead of relying on us to pay when they already know that at the moment we can't fulfill that obligation immediately. I am going to suggest that we pay £100 extra for 10 months in order to then be in advance but I feel that we are getting a lot of hassle when a) we're technically only a week behind and we have always paid and b) they haven't done the jobs that they promised to do and more has come to light since. Can someone please advise me how to tackle this issue? If you have any questions then please feel frre to ask.

Thanks Wino, just what I needed to know, can get rid of the lot yippee!!!!!

Hi everyone I went bankrupt last year and as it looks like my hubby and I are about to move (again! - arghhh) we were just wondering if we could now get rid of everything or do we have to keep lugging it around for those 5 years 10 months as per the HMRC guidelines. It was a business that I became insolvent with and all self assessments have been filed. I've had a look round the www and found one thing that mentions the liquidator getting rid of details after the 12 months are up but nothing else, so if anyone could enlighten me that would be much appreciated.

Ok, time to add mine and in no particular order: Bristow and Sutor - for being a continual pain in the proverbial and deciding to charge what they wanted when they wanted. Thankfully our MP sorted them out and we haven't heard from them since. Rossendales - sent a bailiff round yesterday (letter on doormat when I got home) requesting £235 (total) on a debt of £100 (CT). Where had the charges come from? We don't know because he kindly didn't leave us a breakdown of his charges. Hubby phoned & questioned him just after hubby came home from work and asked about charges, asked to get a breakdown of the £135 charges before we paid it (full payment to be made by 12 pm today I hasten to add), he got a bit flustered when hubby told him he could only charge £18 for a second visit as we had never given them entry and we never signed a levy for distress on goods. Needless to say we haven't seen hide nor or hair of him, either before or after 12.00 pm today so they've been paid £118 only. A letter to them as well as one to the council and a massive complaint to the council chief exec will be going in the post tonight. May have to add LCS to the list if I still don't get a reply from them regarding my offer of payment plan and one of their operatives turns up on my doorstep when I've clearly told them to bugger off! PR: wait... I: wait... L: wait... LD: wait... I: wait...wait... Rank: wait... Traffic: wait... Price: wait... C: wait...

Yes that's right. The council have the right to come after you even if you are declared BR; but after some advice, from the forum, and with the backing of my MP and a solicitor I will be going down the 'provable debt' route.

I have certainly threatened them with the press before on the matter of their approval of the bailiffs charging unreasonable and unlawful fees on my husbands council tax account. So I have no qualms about going to the papers about it, anyone have any suggestions on which ones I should approach? Just local or national?

This is obviously a matter of interpretation then and it seems I should go and speak with my solicitor and MP about this. The point is that not only a judge has determined I am unable to pay my debts i.e. by signing the petition in the first place, and the OR has assesed my position and decided that I have no assets to sell in order to pay off my debts, therefore I have nothing for the council to take. Why are they even bothering? Because they are still smarting from the fact that we have stood up to them and they think they can hit me where it hurts. And as they alread wrote to my mum in August and told her then that the debt was written off they can't have their cake and eat it! I'm not giving this up without a fight.

I was a sole trader. From what I have read then, as a liability order was issued before I went bankrupt this debt is provable and therefore should have been written off. And in fact my mum has a statement with both NDR and CT from Shropshire saying the debts were at nil balance on the 22/07/09. Her name, along with my own, was only present on the lease, she didn't have any control over the business. I went BR on 29th May 2009 and she was made insolvent by the landlords on 19th August 2009.

That's helpful to know, we had a liability order for both the council tax and the non-domestic rates. Does anyone know if the NDR are dealt with in the same manner. If it is the case then it should've been written off. There is a member of the family that works for the insolvency service in another area so I'm going to have a word with her. Plus I think I am going to try and tackle the problem with my office by trying to find my OR and getting in contact directly. I'm going to give the examiner short shrift for not giving me the information that I requested.

I already have, twice, to the examiner. She is the this one that has told me that 'the council has the right to distrain against your goods for the payment of council tax and non-domestic rates'. The person I really want to speak to is the OR but I don't seem to be able to get close to him.

You say that, just be wary of the council. I thought I was ok. Went BR in May, then 5 months on I get a demand from the bailiffs for £2500 for NDR that formed part of my BR. According to my Examiner they have every right to do it. So now I feel like I'm back to square one. I am not a happy bunny. (PS I have posted my own thread up so not hijacking this one ) I just want people to be aware of this!

Hi all I have been in a long and heated battle with the council over numerous things including council tax and non-domestic rates. The whole story so far is in this thread on the bailiffs forum http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/217858-aaaaarrrrrrrgggggghhhhhh-why-wont-they.html My problem with them now is that after I went BR at the end of May 2009 and placing both the CT and NDR in my bankruptcy the council have instructed the bailiffs to come after me for £2500. I have taken legal advice about this and the solicitor I spoke to said that she felt as it formed part of my bankruptcy then they shouldn't be coming after me, however she did suggest I spoke to my official receiver about it. Unfortunately, I wrote to my Examiner asking her for the OR's details so that I could speak to him direct and she basically fobbed me off and told me that although it was in my banruptcy the council could still come after me. Now I'm angry because a) I assumed that when you went bankrupt and a judge signed your petition that was it; and b) I'm a little annoyed that the examiner never pointed out this fact to me. What is the point of going bankrupt when the council can still act like this? Another problem is that once the bailiffs add on their charges they will expect the amount to be paid over 6 months. And as I am only now working p/t, the family income isn't that great and the business folded in January 2009 owing over £65k and I got out of it with nothing, i.e. we lost everything in it, we just won't be able to pay it off in 6 years let alone 6 months. The worrying thing is I don't know where I stand with this and I believe the only reason they are doing this is because my husband and I stood up to them against an unfair and unlawful van charge fee of £450 from the bailiffs which we now have our MP fighting our corner on. Can anyone suggest anything? Obviously I don't want to have to be made to pay this. I don't see why I should as it is a business debt and as the business hasn't been trading since end Jan and I have been declared BR since then the business debts should all be written off. It's also funny that if the council always had the intention to demand this money why didn't they come after me earlier? Why wait until the end of October to begin enforcement? Their actions don't add up.

As I think more and more about it, it seems that it is the term 'discretion' (i.e retains the right) that appears to be prominant here. I believe that this is now happening because we've stood up to the Council over the £450 van fee that the bailiffs are still trying to charge and the council are using their 'discretion' to come back to me with this demand for payment of NDR. Obviously, I can't prove it .... Either that or they are thinking along the same lines as the landlords were when they made my mum insolvent (several months after I was declared bankrupt as my mum was attempting to sue the landlords, and our original solicitors, for a defunct lease that we would never have been able to sell should we have had the opportunity). If you're reading this - I (AS SHE) DON'T HAVE ANYTHING! ........... That's better - I think I needed that! When you fill in the paperwork for the bankruptcy there is a section that asks you if you are being chased for money by bailiffs, etc. This is so they can put an immediate stop on any action taken. So I'm not sure a liability order actually makes any difference. But it is a question I will put to the solicitor? Thank you.

Unfortunately, I've already tried that tack and neither the bailiff or the council are having it. I've also had a letter from the Official receiver saying 'The local authority retains the right to distrain for council and non-domestic rates, but cannot levy on property which under section 283(2) of the Insolvency Act 1986 would not comprise part of a bankrupt's estate.' Not that I'm going to give him the right to even make a levy. And that is why I am also seeking legal advice and will take it further - much further. Why (and I'm surely not the only one here that has been faced with this problem), after even VAT, National Insurance, Income Tax, (which are all government departments) all other major debts for goods and services all written off when a person is declared bankrupt; why does the council have this right (the only body too by the sounds of it)? It doesn't make sense. (Mind you these are the people that incarcerate old aged pensioners for non payment). If a judge deems you to be in a position where you are unable to pay off your debts, signs and stamps your petition to stress that point, and then this is upheld by the official receiver when they look into your affairs, how can the council then just say bankruptcy doesn't matter and doesn't effect them? It is fundamentally wrong on so many levels, not to mention all the stress it causes too. It also niggles me that I am the only one that is being chased for this. They've left my mum alone! (Obviously I'm not saying that she shouldn't be, neither of us should be being hounded) but I truly believe they are trying to take the proverbial Michael here! (And probably because we're disputing the horrendous van fee they are still upholding as reasonable and lawful.) Here are the letters I promised, the first that came was the demand from the bailiffs: Then this arrived on Saturday from the bailiffs: This also arrived on Saturday from the council: This is what I've sent to the council - hopefully it will stall them long enough for me to seek legal advice and not get a nasty visitor to my door. As it is a separate issue then I shall treat it as such. Please send me, by return of post, copies of the bill, reminders, liability order, etc expressing exactly what it is that you are demanding from me. Treat this as the beginnings of a formal complaint and place this account on hold. I am disputing it until I know exactly what it is you are attempting to demand of me. I have lodged this complaint with my MP and will also be seeking legal advice, your speedy return would be appreciated. Yours sincerely Any ideas? I believe that this is something that should be discussed at central government as the whole thing is corrupt. The only thing is I just don't know where to start with it. Anyone know how to raise awareness of issues such as these - I'm sure someone will, someone had enough foresight to put this site together. All hail.

Hi Rae Well that is what I thought too, Rae. Once I've posted the letters up someone may come back with something. Have since discovered they are chasing me for last years NDR, i.e. 2008-09, which I put in my bankruptcy. I am so flabberghasted that they can do it (or that they believe they can), perhaps when I've spoken to my solicitor will have a better understanding.

I'm not a happy bunny at all! I've had responses from everyone including the LGO and basically none of them are very promising. It looks like I am going to be hounded for Non domestic rates that I shouldn't be paying for. And they say that the van costs on the council tax account are not unlawful and reasonable 'to send two men in a van to collect goods'. The bailiffs give some blurb about, shame I've still got the original letter that says that they can't tell me what the charge is and therefore isn't a charge, eh? I'll post the letters up this afternoon and you can all have a read of them. I'm going to be speaking with my MP this afternoon and I'm also going to seek legal advice on this one too. I think its the only way that I'm going to be able to stop them from railroading me. What is the point of going bankrupt if the council can just hound you afterwards and make your life hell?

It's very interesting that they have charged us the same £450 for a van fee, allegedly for council tax, although I've had my suspicions that they added this onto the council tax account for my husband when they knew they weren't going to get any luck from me and the non-domestic rates. LeicWizard PM if you're interested in finding out what these b******s are trying to do to me and my hubby. Or look up my thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/217858-aaaaarrrrrrrgggggghhhhhh-why-wont-they.html for more info. There may be stuff there that can help from the advice of everyone here. Perhaps all of us that are being pursued by B&S, (that's Bristow and Sutor, more affectionately known a s B*****d and S**t H**d in my household), should get together and make a mass demonstration. All of our MP's should get to hear about these bailiffs disguising themselves as higway robbers. In days gone by they would be hanged for such unlawful behaviour and demands. Shame the same laws don't apply today.

This is very interesting! So, and if I'm reading this right, because the bailiffs couldn't make direct contact with me then they should've referred me back to court. Is this just Brimingham City Policy or law? And there is nothing there about Van fees, if I'm reading it right, meaning they can't charge them? Again I'd like to know if this is just Birmingham City Policy or law?

I've revised the letter to the Bailiffs slightly. This is what I have sent to the council: Dear Mr Its funny isn’t it, every time we turn our backs for one second you, and your bailiffs, are caught acting inappropriately. Can you tell me why it is that even though we still haven’t had a definitive conclusion from the LGO yet, that you consider continuing to pursue us even so? For your information, if you were not already aware, the LGO gave us an extension to give us our consideration of his views. This was set at the 6th November 2009. So how come we got the first demand for payment from Bristow and Sutor dated 30th October 2009? A week before our deadline and before any further consideration was made by the LGO, which we still haven’t received as of today. I would also like to ask why it is that Bristow and Sutor are acting reprehensibly? On the 30th October there were two letters one addressed to my wife and I regarding the £450 charges that I am disputing; the other addressed to just my wife for non-domestic rates. I would like to point out that even though my wife’s surname was xxx before we married she has never used it as an alias since ‘losing’ it in 1995. Please ask your bailiffs to strike this from their records. My wife and her mother, Mrs xxx, both signed the lease with the landlords, as the landlords required two names on it. I, myself, was bankrupt at the time of them signing in 2007 and was, in fact, an employee of the business from late 2006 onwards, i.e. I never had any control over the business and its affairs from then onwards. So why is it, after my wife sent them a letter referring them to the official receiver, did a letter, dated 6th November and still within the time allowed by the LGO for us to get back to them with our views, then arrive putting the whole amount of nearly £3000 into one account and declaring it all to be council tax? Not only that, but suggesting that even though my wife is a bankrupt they can still pursue her for the figure owing? No they can’t, just because they, probably on your instruction, decide to put the two figures together and dress them up as something they are not does not mean that they can demand that she, or even myself on her behalf, pay this money. As you will notice from the letter we have sent Bristow and Sutor we have asked that they revert these back to what they were originally, i.e. an account for council tax which the remaining balance is actually made up of their unreasonable and unlawful van fees of £450 and therefore no council tax amount which my wife cannot be pursued for. And an account for £2515.90 for non-domestic rates that cannot be claimed from myself, as I was an employee of the business and of which you are already aware of from the landlords, and cannot pursue either my wife or mother-in-law for as they have both been declared bankrupt and the lease surrendered. And whilst we are at it, I am today making a freedom of information request to ask you for a copy of the agreed fee scale in the signed contract between yourselves and your bailiffs, Bristow and Sutor. I ask for this by return of post. I would also like to take this opportunity to tell you that my MP, Mr xxxx, has now taken up this case on our behalf and will be looking into yours and your bailiff’s behaviour and dealings. A copy of this letter, along with all correspondence to date, has also been sent to the LGO and to the official receiver for their records. This account is in dispute and no further action can be taken against us. If further correspondence regarding this matter is received before any resolution takes place, i.e. from both the LGO and our MP, and then we will deem this as harassment and seek legal representation, taking this matter to court. Yours sincerely What does everyone think? I've included the freedom of information request too.

These bailiffs aren't acting on behalf of Shropshire Council are they? PM me if they are!

No, but I will now. I shall put in my letter to them today regarding the above. Thanks Tomtubby. Did you also get my request for more info relating to the Marstons case? Does anyone else have any suggestions regarding these bailiffs/council etc?

Hi all Just came home to this letter for B&S: This is what I'm thinking of sending back: Dear Sir/Madam Thank you for your letter dated the 6th November 2009. However, this is not correct. And will be fought. Firstly, we ask that you separate the two accounts. As one is Council Tax and one is Non Domestic rates each should and have be dealt with separately. Council Tax - £450 This account has been ongoing and is included in my wife's bankruptcy. There are letters that deal with this and as such the only person who can be made to pay for this is myself. However, you and the council are both aware that this account is in dispute. We are still awaiting a response from the Local Government Ombudsmen regarding this matter and as he gave us until the 6th November 2009 to reply to him for his further consideration, how can you demand repayment of this account with your letter dated 31st October 2009. You and the council, should have both awaited a response from the LGO and seeing as we do not yet have one then how can you justify taking this action. We would also like you to know that our MP, , is looking into this case and will be acting on our behalf. Please remember that we consider this van fee charge of £450, which according to yourselves is not even a charge, to be unreasonable and as a £100 pound fee laid down by the Marston Group was deemed to be unreasonable by District Judge Avent in Aug 2009 and is now case law, then you have absolutely no right to charge this figure. Non-Domestic Rates - £2515.90 We believed this account to be sorted out. Firstly, you are not allowed to include myself on this account as I was an employee i.e. I had nothing to do with the business. I suggest you get clarification of this from the council as they sent me a letter telling me exactly that. Secondly, as we discarded the business on the 27th January 2009, i.e. we were no longer trading as of this date, that is where my wife’s and my mother in laws liability ends. The lease was surrendered and all liability for the empty property is now due by the freeholders of the business, Newperties Ltd. The council are already aware of this and we again suggest that you go back to them to find out this information. What next? We get a bill for next year’s non-domestic rates and the following years? No, our liability has ended and you have no further right to claim anything against a business that died and was buried on the 27th January 2009, long before the non-domestic rates bill that you are trying to demand on behalf of the council. Furthermore, I would also like to point out that you cannot just claim for things when you want to. There has to be a series of events leading up to this point. In this case a bill with my wife’s name on it, a reminder with my wife’s name on it, a final demand with my wife’s name on it, a liability order with my wife’s name on it and a letter from the council to say that they have the courts backing to collect this money owing with my wife’s name on it. We both find it particularly strange that not only one item of the above list has never found its way to us, but that all of them have never found their way to us! It is not enough to say that you have them, they have to be served upon us and as such they have never been. Again, I suggest you go back to the council and find out from them exactly what is going on and remind them of their liability. As far as you are concerned, you will not be allowed access onto our premises to gather goods to the value and we most certainly will not be signing any of your paperwork. We are also seriously considering taking you and the council to court for putting us through so much stress, all we want to do is put that part of our lives behind us and your actions are not allowing us to. We would also like to mention that yet again, you and the council have both acted unlawfully, inconsiderably and highly inappropriately. Both of these accounts are considered in dispute. Please note well, not only has a copy of this letter been sent to the council but also to the LGO and our MP. Your correspondence has also been sent too. Yours sincerely What does everyone think? Anything else we can put in here?