Well Guys and Ladies, Just popped in to see what's happening, but I guess we're all still waiting. Looking back all the fuss about our case seems a long time ago and time make me see that it wasn't such an ordeal. The Press intrusion was a pain but I refused to comment so they had to write their stories without my help. I have to give some credit to my local paper who didn't feature the case once I explained that I hadn't won and that it was a bit of a non-story. Some of the others wrote it as if I had given them a statement and that was annoying. Still, I learned a valuable lesson about privacy and the need to protect it. My biggest regret was the publicity that Judge Abraham received. I have great respect for him and the fact that he was prepared to stick his neck out in making the order to suspend the charges and I regret that his stand became so public. I know how that happened and I want you all to know that it was not as result of anybody's postings on this thread. Beware of how much detail you give when you write or they might track you down!! Thanks once again for all your help, support, kind words and sympathy. It was much needed at the time and so appreciated. John.

I've just read the latest figures. It seems they have about £4 billion pounds in a surplus pot and they want to give us a few hundred each!! How big a hole does that fill in a mortgage shortfall? You have to say NO. Check out this page to read more about it. It's an article in the Financial Times. Ctrl + C to copy, Ctrl + V to paste web address. http://norwich-union-policyholder-reattribution.googlegroups.com/web/mos%20jan6.jpg?gda=QGez_T8AAAA35_GJUuGGuR5oG9cXQ50OOcNFKb1TzhOL11s72WTEoTZJatNdFkk5z4UBM7pctlYCjcRK-XsB2HQfqWjk6BAN&hl=en If you have PowerPoint have a look at this as well Ctrl + C to copy, Ctrl + V to paste web address. http://norwich-union-policyholder-reattribution.googlegroups.com/web/A%20Powerpoint%20show%5B1%5D...%20Re-attribution%20-%20The%20Real%20Story.ppt?gda=eBfO7HIAAAA35_GJUuGGuR5oG9cXQ50OOcNFKb1TzhOL11s72WTEoTZJatNdFkk5z4UBM7pctlZxCj6qGcemCFwyTpJBEZ3q7ZVSmOixI1r_mWyxzu23d2Z2DelIbC7h2pON9YWxgxYtD4fsMTuE7q7_ccxggKBsj6g-1kuiDGocFuQOlPjFVQ&hl=en I still hope that enough people will get involved and let Norwich Union know that they can't buy us off cheaply, but it's going to be a tough job. Regards, John.

They can ask but why would you agree? Don't do it! Wait and see what the court says. You can't object because it hasn't been granted.

Hi Adam76, Please don't count on a strike out because of no CB from bank. Mine didm't submit a CB but they sent somone to ask for a stay on the day of the hearing and got it..

Hi Jan, I thought I'd visit at your thread for a change. I'm keeping clear of mine for the moment - not sure who to trust. I had a private mail about my thread a couple of days before the news broke trying to get me to co-operate on a BBC story but I didn't respond - two days later my identity's out on the BBC news website. I call that suspicious. Anyway Jan, I reallly wrote to say congratualtions and glad you won. It's a shame you never got to put the arguments we discussed before the Judge. I'd love know what the outcome would have been. That's easy for me to say when it's your money! It's great news and I'm very happy for you. Good luck and enjoy spending it. With kindest regards, John.

It's good if you want to find your thread hijacked, your case splashed all over the media, your identity compromised, and your house besieged by reporters. I want to make it clear to everyone that I had no part in publicising this story. It certainly wasn't in our interests for that to happen. It's a big leap from my username to my daughter's identity and I never used it on the site. Given the number of cases that were heard at Luton I have wondered if the BBC were tipped off and my real identity leaked. I appreciate the sincerity in your good wishes guys and thanks for that, but at the moment I'm quite disillusioned by the whole experience. With kindest regards, John.

GaryH posted the following clarification about a week ago: Depends on the directions - small claims track standard directions then yes, they don't have to submit documents if they don't intend to rely on any at the hearing. If its been ordered that they must submit a certain document(s), such as a disclosure, and they don't then you can ask for a strike out.

Hi Jan, I feel sure they will have somebody there for your hearing. Please do not speak to them before you go in to see the Judge. It's likely they will try and put you off, try and find out your strategy or generally intimidate you. If you are opposing the stay you will need every bit of ammo you can find. You can't argue non-compliance as the bundle date never arrived but you can argue that the banks are manipulating the courts to their advantage. Have a look at these bits from my original posting: I'd use the template letter on the following link, removing any references to an allocation questionnaire, specifically asking the Judge to strike out the defence. It is pretty heavy weight stuff but I think it's a case of nothing to lose now. Don't forget to print out the evidence to back it up. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclays-bank/97169-aq-strike-out-application.html If that fails you'll need to use the objection to a stay template on the following link: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/17065-application-removal-stay-updated.html#post1046820 Lastly, if you are on benefits or have been while the bank has been taking your money, Section 187 of the Social Security Act 1992 and Section 45 of the Tax Credit Act 2006 states that people on these income related benefits have an inalienable right to their money. What this means is that banks - or any other company - has NO right to this money and you can object to the stay because your claim is not based on consumer law but is in fact based on benefit law. You can search some threads on this if it applies. They will only come to argue the stay. They are so smug they probably won't expect you to argue anything else. You're still in the game but you need to bat hard. You can catch them out and the look of surprise when you do is almost worth the money. I wish you luck and will be rooting for you. If there's anything I can help you with or talk through don't hesitate. I'd love you to win! Sincerely, John.

Hi Johnny, You raise a couple of interesting points that I admit I hadn't considered. Fortunately I still have the spreadsheet from the date we went to court, but I'll carry on calculating interest as well. I have no idea how the courts will view it when the time comes. I think the Judge was sympathetic to our case and I'm sure he was trying to ensure the delay didn't disadvantage us. I guess we'll have to wait and see. Regards, John.

I have received a General Form of Judgement or Order from court following my hearing staying my case until 31st March 2008 with a view to awaiting the decision in the test case. THis is based on the fact that that a test case has been issued in the High Court between the Office of Fair Trading and certain banks, with a view to detemining issues of legal principle in relation to the recovery of charges made on bank current accounts. And upon it appearing that the issues raised in the test case are similar to those in this claim.

You still there Scoot? If so and you have time read post 113 on my thread: johnsworld v Barclays Bank. I went to court and lost against the stay but have put down what I'd do differently. DO NOT discuss anything with their guy before you go into court. They'll try and manipulate you. Unless of course they'd like to settle. I think I'd ask them just to annoy them. Good luck. I hope this is in time to help. Regards, John.

Hi JGJ, Sorry I haven't been around lately. The clarification from Gary about directions was only what he said in post 423. How are things with your case in Oct? Have you been stayed yet or does it look like going ahead? Regards, John

Hi Jack, It's good to hear from you and I understand your dilemma because it's damned annoying to feel they've got away with it but I think they have. I reckon that the test case will go against the banks but I'm concerned that the judgement might set a high figure on what is reasonable to charge and the decision to stay cases is going to cost us because we would probably have got it all if the bank had settled. You've given it a good run as have I and everyone else but we have at best been unlucky and at worst conspired against. I'd like to tell you to take them on and appeal the stay but commonsense says don't. I'd like to thank you for your kind words as well. I wish you luck whatever you decide. I'm sure we'll prevail. It's just how long it might take that bugs me. Best wishes, John.

I wouldn't bother. It seems like they've shut up shop. If you get through to anyone at the bank all they will do is tell you that they will send somebody to your hearing to request a stay or that all cases have been stayed. If your hearing is definitely proceeding you need to be looking at ways of getting the case thrown out, or opposing a request for a stay and getting it heard. Regards, John.

A special hi to Jan and Jack, I don't know when your hearings were going to be so I thought I'd better mail you my thoughts on what I'd add to my evidence if I could do it again. Jack, I just read that your case has been stayed so unless you intend to contest it I guess this won't apply. Jan, if your still in the game I am assuming the bank has not (will not) submitted a bundle. I also assume that allocation questionnaires were dispensed with. If that 's the case the first thing I would do is inform the Judge of the banks failure to comply. I'd tell him but you could let him read it if you are nervous. It's not likely to make much difference to your case but it will be a point to you. Couldn't find template but this is what I used: I, the Claimant, refer to the claim as detailed above and specifically the order made by District Judge __________ dated _______ 2007. I wish to inform the court that the Defendant has not complied with the order in that it has not served upon me the evidence, or any such documents, upon which it intends to rely at the forthcoming hearing. I wrote to the defendant's Litigation and Disputes Team on _________ to request that it serve the Defendant's documents at its earliest convenience. I have received no response to this correspondence. I can confirm that my documents were filed on ___________ 2007 and served to the Defendant on __________2007. It is submitted that the Defendants non-compliance creates a significant imbalance between the parties in light of the forthcoming hearing, which I believe to be contrary to the overriding objective. This imbalance is particularly exacerbated by the fact that the Defendant is represented by specialist solicitors, whereas I am a litigant in person. (I'd delete this paragraph I think, especially if I was going to request the case be struck out.) Given that the Judge is unlikely to chuck out the case on failure to comply with directions I'd use the template letter that follows, removing any references to an allocation questionnaire, specifically asking the Judge to strike out the defence. It is pretty heavy weight stuff but I think it's a case of nothing to lose now. Don't forget to print out the evidence to back it up. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclays-bank/97169-aq-strike-out-application.html If that fails you'll need to use the objection to a stay template on the following link: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/17065-application-removal-stay-updated.html#post1046820 Lastly, if you are on benefits or have been while the bank has been taking your money, Section 187 of the Social Security Act 1992 and Section 45 of the Tax Credit Act 2006 states that people on these income related benefits have an inalienable right to their money. What this means is that banks - or any other company - has NO right to this money and you can object to the stay because your claim is not based on consumer law but is in fact based on benefit law. Well, that's my advice. I'm no lawyer so maybe you might check it out with a mod or maybe someone will have a different view. The way I see it the court will be minded to agree to a stay and it will have to be something pretty heavy to stop them. Good luck, John.

Hi Jack and Jansus, I've been having a hard time since the case. I think I could have done more, especially when I see objections to stays being successful and cases being won as a result. I really thought the fact that the bank hadn't complied with the directions of the court would have mattered and that the Judge would have thrown out their defence. I also see that other Judges have decided for the claimant on the basis of exactly the same CAG template and that's been hard to take. Anyway, you've got a shot at it now and I've been thinking what I'd do differently. Jack, I've read you own thread and wonder when you say you haven't received the banks defence whether you mean their defence or their bundle. It's important in deciding tactics. Just let me know and I'll get back to you. Seeing you win would make up for my disappointment! Thanks, John.

Thanks for the explanation about directions Gary. I lost my objection to stay but I'm sure it will be helpful to people with cases pending. Kind regards, John.

I have to admit that I'm a bit confused about the banks failure to comply. Some posts say you can get their defence thrown out others that they don't have to submit a bundle. My bank didn't submit a bundle. I requested that the Judge consider that before hearing the request for a stay but he just asked the defence why they hadn't complied. They made up a stupid excuse and were rebuked for it by the Judge, but it made no difference and the application for a stay was allowed to proceed. I don't think it's clear and I don't think anyone should assume they can get a judgement by default just for that. Thanks, John.

JGJ, The onus is on you to prove your case and that is why you need a bundle. If the bank are confident in their initial defence, or that your case is rubbish, more likely they never intended to argue in court, they don't HAVE to submit anything. I thought as you do but it isn't the case. Some people were lucky I guess and maybe their Judge decided the bank were taking the pee. You can still overturn the application for a stay though and as I've said they can be wrong-footed. Hit them with the failure to comply just as a starter.

JGJ, Don't bet on it. Alll it means is bank doesn't submit bundle, bank only has basic defence to rely on. It's not likely to be thrown out. Some people have won by default but not many.

Sammy, I put my witness statement in court bundle but not bank's copy. I told the court office on the last day to submit and they said no problem, just send it to bank. Try ringing court. I reckon you'll be able to slip it in.

Mick, My directions said the same as yours. To each other and the court by May 18th? Despite writing twice the bank never responded and did not comply. My case was last week and they still hadn't. Their defence tried to say that it was because the bank anticipated a stay (clairvoyant obviously). Depiter that the Judge didn't give it much creedence. So it seems you have the same argument and other Judges have upheld it but mine didn't. That's why I think you need to pitch a bit harder. Argue failure to comply but add the bit about taking advantage of the court to bolster your defence. I didn't say in my previous posting, but if you meet the defence before the hearing DON'T discuss the case and don't give them anything before you get in there. They will try and intimidate you if they get a chance and tell you you have to give them copies of you evidence, that you won't be qualified to argue the leagal complexities etc.. That's what they did to me and I let them see my stuff just as we went in but I wouldn't next time. They smile at you but the knife is behind their back! In you favour is the fact that the defence advocate isn't prepared or briefed to defend non-compliance. Mine was a freelance and her instructions from the bank were only to seek a stay so you have a good chance of catching their defence off guard. Good luck. Let's know what happens, John

Hi Mick, I'm a bit confused so forgive me I I've misunderstood. I found out at my final hearing that the bank doesn't have to submit a bundle. I presume they filed a defence right at the start and that is all they will be able to rely on at trial. I tried arguing failure to comply but while the judge asked the banks defence why they had not submitted a bundle it didn't have any bearing on the outcome. Barclays won a stay against me. With hindsight I'd use the failure to submit a bundle to show the judge a history of non-compliance and failures to defend in court. I'd try to show the judge how many were settled out of court and that the banks are abusing the court process to bully and intimidate claimants into giving up. Good luck, John.

Sarah, Have a read of my thread about court if you've not done already. It really isn't as scary as I thought, or you think. It's a bit like going in to see the headmaster, but if you are a litigant in person he will be more on your side because he has a duty to protect you. Don't discuss the case with the defence before you go in and don't give them anything until you get in there. They may try and intimidate you but don't let them. Take it as a sign that they are worried and go for it. Good luck. It will be great if you win. If not try and get some concessions, like no more penalties or interest for the duration of the stay. Regards, John.

In my case the bank's advocate said she was asking for a stay and the Judge asked me if I had any objections. I said I had prepared a document (based on CAG template) listing my objections which I wished the court to consider and passed it to the Judge. You need to have a copy for the defence as well. Simple as that! Good luck with your case. John.