Hi Jansus, Re-sent.......

Jansus, Thanks for that - I've pm'ed the names to you.

Hi Jansus, Thanks for the advice. In my particular case, they got a money order with the repossession order, although the money order is for a slightly different amount then the balance on the mortgage on the completion statement they sent me. I've asked the agents who valued the property for me back in Jan 08 to supply copies of the valuations. Funnily enough, I'm sure the agent who sold the property for the bank was one of those who valued it for me in Jan 08. I've had a look at all the stats on Mouseprice.com. My property was a 4 bedroom terrace house (a purpose-built one, not a conversion from a 3 bedroom). In Jun 09, the average price for a 4 bedroom house in my area was £212k, the average price for a terraced house in the area was £110k. I've put average in italics because there are a large number of terraced houses in the area ranging from tiny 2 bedroom houses to large 4 bedroom houses (like mine). The majority of the purpose-built 4 bedroom houses in the area are semi-detached, so average covers a multitude of sins. Another thing is that somebody else on this thread mentioned the Asset Protection Scheme which bailed Lloyds out. Having looked through the small print on this (contained on HM Treasury website - I posted a link earlier), it looks as though the bank is obliged to continue collection activities as usual, regardless of the fact that the loan concerned may or may not have been guaranteed by the govt. In any case, the Asset Protection Scheme was for the bank's benefit, not ours. I guess they can only claim on that guarantee if they are totally unable to collect their debts by normal means. In my case, I suppose it's just a waiting game now to see if the drone dealing with it manages to tie up the correspondence or just keeps pressing the buttons. 'Computer says.....naahhh'

Hi all, Just a quick update - got this from the thieves at Lloyds today: I note that I have not received any response from you concerning the loss suffered on the above mentioned property. In an effort to resolve this matter, I would be prepared to consider any reasonable proposals that you have for payment of the loss and enclose a prepaid envelope for your use. Please ensure that I receive your proposals within seven days. If you wish to discuss this matter, I can be contacted on 0800 0563508, selecting option 2. We may monitor and/or record telephone calls in case there’s a need to check that your instructions have been carried out correctly and to help improve our service quality. Thank you for your assistance in resolving this matter. This letter, along with the previous 2, came from 'Julie Newman' at their Loss Recovery, Recoveries Department. I addressed my response this time to Ms Newman (by recorded delivery of course) and it went along the lines of 'oh yes I have responded, my responses were sent by recorded delivery and I have proof you received them. Maybe you had better search your offices and by the way you have 30 days left to respond to my SAR'.

Hi Sillygirl and Bona and thanks for your replies. Sillygirl - totally agree - firstly, repossession is supposed to be a last resort. From the outset, I was keeping Lloyds in the loop and they were aware that I was doing my best to get the tenants out and get new ones (who would pay the rent) in. I had even served them with a Section 21 Notice and was in the process of putting an application together to get the relevant possession order. They also know that renting it out was a temporary measure until the market recovered enough to sell it and cover the costs, clear both the mortgage and the arrears. Not much I can do about that now. Secondly, they chose to repossess the place and the time and price of the sale was of their choosing, not mine. Got another shocker a couple of days ago. The average price of a 4 bedroom house in my area was around the £212k mark in March 2009 (according to mouseprice.com). Mouseprice claim they get their data from the Land Registry. Thats a helluva difference. Bona, I already sent the letter I quoted earlier, will leave it a couple of days and send another one asking the awkward questions about Lloyds APS agreement with Gordon & co. Thanks guys for all your help so far.

This might be useful, it's a link to the details of the Asset Protection Scheme which RBS and Lloyds Banking Group signed up to. http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/aps_uk_asset_protection_scheme_270109.pdf As far as I can tell, the way it works for Lloyds is this 1) The government guarantees up to £260bn of bad debt. This bad debt includes residential mortgages. 2) The bank takes a hit on the first £26bn 3) The Bank pays the government a fee of £15.6bn (paid in shares). This gives the govt a majority shareholding in the bank. Things I need to find out are whether or not Lloyds claimed on the guarantee for any individual mortgage (including mine) and if as suggested above, this has already been passed to the taxpayer and written off. Will continue digging, but to be honest, I don't have a clue where to look for that info. Any suggestions?

Hi Bona, Thanks for your reply. I'll do some research and see what I can find.

Hi all, Got this from the thieves at Lloyds today "I have written to you concerning the outstanding debt on the above property and am disappointed that you have not contacted me. This situation is not acceptable and I can only stress the importance of you addressing this matter. I must now inform you that unless we receive settlement in full or your reasonable payment proposals within 7 days from the date of this letter, your account will be referred to our Legal Department Should this be necessary, I would advise that mortgage interest and costs will be added to the account. I have taken the opportunity of enclosing a further financial questionnaire which I strongly urge you to complete and return to me in the prepaid envelope provided. Please ensure I receive your response by 11 September 2009. If you would like to discuss this matter, I can be contacted on 0800 0563508, selecting option 2. We may monitor and/or record telephone calls in case there’s a need to check that your instructions have been carried out correctly and to help improve our service quality. Yours sincerely," Will send this in reply Thank you for your letter dated 4th September, the contents of which are noted. Contrary to the statement in your letter, I did, in fact reply to your previous letter. My reply was dated 1st September 2009 and was sent to your office by recorded delivery the same day, complete with the statutory maximum payment of £10.00. I have attached a copy of my letter for your convenience. Far from ignoring this matter, I have in my letter made a request for some information. I have asked you to refrain from taking further action until a reasonable period has passed after your response to it. I believe that it is only fair for me to be able to make an informed decision about how best to proceed with this matter. I believe that my request is more than reasonable under the circumstances and if you have nothing to hide, you should have no problem in responding fully to it. I look forward to your response in due course. Yours faithfully, I'm open to suggestions from people and any help will be greatly appreciated.

Ell-enn and Jansus - thanks ever so much for your replies. I've already rad the credit-agricole post and found it very interesting. I'll definately be reading up on the other threads you mention too. As far as keeping dossiers is concerned, I already make a habit of scanning and keeping soft copies of all the letters I receive, as well as copies of all the letters I send. I also file and keep the originals. Just as a quick update, the SAR went off this past weekend, so the clock is ticking. I'll update with events as they occur. I've already let these people screw me once, it won't be happening again! I've also found out where my previous tenants live and am giving serious consideration to going after them (legally of course!) for the almost £700 in rent they owe me.

At the suggestion of Bankfodder, here is my horror story. It's quite long and involved, so please bear with me. In early January 2008, I was made redundant. At the time, I had a mortgage with C&G with a 2nd, secured loan with GE Money. There was about 139K on the main mortgage and 13K on the GE Money one. My wife and I had been toying with the idea of starting our own business, so this seemed like an opportunity to do it. Anticipating problems making the mortgage payments (foolishly, I had no PPI), we decided to move into rented and sell the house as a vacant possession. We got valuations from three local estate agents, all around the 150-160K mark. This, according to the agents, made the house a 'steal' and would make for a quick sale. It went on the market at the end of January. Come the end of June and with the house still unsold and the threatening letters from Lloyds and GE Money coming in, we decided to let it out and ride out the storm. Please bear in mind that at all times, Lloyds and GE Money were kept informed, in writing, of progress. In August 2008, we found a tenant and they moved in around the middle of the month after paying two months rent in advance. There was no deposit. The tenant informed us from the outset that they would be on housing benefit and at the time, that didn't seem to be a problem. The next rent due date came and went with nothing being paid so we pressed the tenant for the rent and eventually it was paid. The Council had previously confirmed to us that the HB payments were being made to the tenant, so there was no excuse for the rent not to be paid. The tenant had tried to fob us off with a story about the HB claim being delayed, which was untrue. She was pocketing it. GE Money started repossession proceedings, despite me making payments when the rent was received. I asked them to bear with me, but they refused, stating that they wanted the arrears paid off and future payments to be made on time, all the time. The tenant was informed by GE Money about the repossession claim, and apparently sought advice from someone who advised them not to make any further rent payments and stay in the house until the bailiffs put them on the street. I assured my tenant that their claim would fail. This was because the default notice was inaccurate in that the sum they claimed I owed was partly composed of penalties and didn't contain the correct wording. The hearing date came and I attended. I argues that GE Money had unlawfully terminated the contract under Common Law and the CCA. The judge agreed with me and basically told them to go back to the drawing board and adjourned the case until either we settled it between us or they could prove they had complied with all their legal obligations. Round one to me. Because of my tenants previous dishonesty and their subsequent refusal to make any more rent payments, I applied to the Council for the HB payments to be made directly to me. It took them THREE MONTHS to make it happen. In the meantime, LTSB started their own repossession proceedings, despite me having kept them informed of all events so far in this sorry tale. By this time, the tenant had given me grounds for eviction under Section 8 of the Housing Act for non-payment of rent, so I served them with a Section 8 Notice. I asked LTSB to hold off until I had evicted this tenant and found a new one who would pay rent. They declined to do so. With a serious case of stage fright, I didn't attend the hearing (something I will always regret) and they were given possession. The bank evicted the tenant and took possession in February 2009. In March 2009, the recession claimed our business and we ceased trading, thankfully at the time, the business was debt-free. We both signed on and started looking for work in April 2009 and moved house again, to something smaller and more affordable. We both got full time jobs earlier this month and just as we were at last feeling good about life, LTSB caught up with us and demanded we pay them £30000, this being the shortfall on the mortgage after they sold our house in July 09 for £117000! This figure didn't sit right with me, as only 15 months before, three local estate agents had valued the place at around the £150-160K mark and that was for a quick sale. I intend to send LTSB a Subject Access Request, asking for the usual list of transactions, but also asking the following questions: 1) To what period does the interest quoted in the statement supplied with your letter apply? 2) What, if any, Mortgage Indemnity Guarantee was in place before the property was sold? 3) Please supply a complete breakdown of how the ‘Administration Charges’ figure in your statement was calculated. 4) Please supply a complete breakdown of how the ‘Possession Maintenance Fee’ figure in your statement was calculated. What maintenance was actually carried out on the property whilst it was in your possession and by whom? Please supply copies of any invoices. 5) To what does the ‘Audit Report’ relate and by whom was it made. Please supply me with a copy of the report, together with copies of any invoices relating to it. 6) What valuations were made on the property before it was offered for sale, when and whom were they made? Please supply me with copies of the valuations you obtained, together with copies of any invoices related to them. 7) How was the property marketed and by whom? Please supply copies of any invoices related to the marketing and sale of the property. On what date was the property first advertised for sale? 9) What period of time elapsed between the property first being marketed and the completion of the sale? 10) How many bids were received for the property and what was their value. I also require that you disclose the identity of the eventual successful buyer. There is no data protection issue associated with this part of the request. This information is already in the public domain and is available from HM Land Registry’s website on payment of a small fee. I'll also be approaching the agents who valued the property in Jan 2008 and asking for copies of their valuations. I had a look at the land registry website and figures from there state that the average price for a property in my area in Jun 2009 was £138K. I know what that implies, but my house was bigger than the average house and even if it sold for an average price for the area, the shortfall would be a whole lot less that £30000. So, right now, I'm looking for evidence that they or their agents undervalued the property so I can use that information as a bargaining tool against them. Sorry this is so long. I know that there are areas where I could perhaps have shown better judgement, but they all seemed like good ideas at the time. If there is any advice that fellow Caggers can offer, it would be much appreciated.

Hi dcakiller. Yes, you are absolutely right. A hard lesson learned and a mistake which will not be repeated.

Hi all, I got a call about three weeks ago from the managing agent for my previous address. They told me that the new tenant in there had found a card on her doormat from a company called 'UK Forwarding', addressed to me. Apparently, they had tried to deliver a package, but nobody had answered the door. It gave a phone number, a name and a reference number. Not expecting anything through the mail, I called the number to find out what this was about. I was told the same story, so I gave them my current address. I began to smell a rat when the young lady told me that they would put the package in the post. If they're a delivery company, why put something in the post??? After a couple of days with no delivery, I got more than a little suspicious and googled the phone number. I found a website called phonespamfilter.co.uk and the phone number was listed on there (and no I'm not trying to plug anything). Anyways, last Saturday, I got a letter from Lloyds TSB demanding that I contact them and make arrangements to pay £30,000 - that being the shortfall from the sale of my house which they repossessed back in February of this year. I know that they could have got my address from any number of sources, but it seems more than a coincidence to me. A [problem] that Caggers need to be aware of I think. Note to the mods - can I tell my repossession horror story here or should I start a new thread?

dx Thanks for that - I'll pass it on and get her to call the Northampton Court tomorrow.

Hi all, Hoping to get some advice here. My step-daughter received a claim from Freemans in mid-August last year, dated 8th August 2008. The claim was for £173.50, plus solicitors fees of £50 and a Court fee of £15. She has receipts for goods bought from them totalling £85, so she put in a part-admission for that, with an offer to pay by monthly installments and put them to strict proof that they were entitled to the remaining £88.50. The part-admission was submitted via Moneyclaim online on 3rd September 2008 and since then, she's heard and received nothing. This is a cause of worry for her as she's a single mum with 2 small kids and barely making ends meet, so she just wants to make it go away. I've offered to pay it for her, but she's refused, saying it's her debt and she needs to deal with it. Any ideas anyone?

Fair enough, it was just an idea. Forgive my ignorance

Hi all, Not sure where to put this, so if any of the mods want to find a home for it.... Looking through the Consumer Credit Act 1974, I noticed Schedule 1 right at the bottom. This lists punishments for offences committed under the Act. I've seen a lot of threads and template letters which mention offences committed by not supplying documents etc, but nothing about any punishments these companies might face on being found guilty of committing them. From what I've read, the most common offences seem to be failure to supply documents under S77(4) and S78(6) of the 1974 Act. What might surprise people is that these offences are actually punishable on summary conviction (ie magistrates court) by a fine up to Level 4 on the Standard Scale. According to the Wikipedia, this translates to a fine of up to £2,500. I've never heard anything about Trading Standards actually prosecuting any of the banks etc for CCA74 offences, so how about a collective, Private Prosecution? Taking a sample of, say, 1000 offences by any given bank, the fine would hit them where it hurts........ What does the panel think?

Hi, Good parachute accounts are Natwest Step account or (and don't quote me on this) RBOS Key Account. They're both basic current accounts with a Solo/Maestro card, no cheque book and no overdraft. You can get online banking though. They do a credit check, but that's really meaningless. The problem is the credit scoring and I don't think applications for these types of accounts are credit scored. I got one and if I can, anyone can Works for me!

Well, where does one start? At the beginning I suppose So far against Lloyds - submitted Data Protection Act request, got statements etc back on day 40. Went through, worked out they've helped themselves to about £3500 of MY money. Initial request went in on 24th August. Got a polite 'Non'. LBA went in on 8th September. No reply to that. Did the thing on Moneyclaim online. Case has been transferred to my local County Court. Also got the Allocation Questionnaire. Their Defence is: "1)The Defendant, Lloyds TSB Bank plc (the Bank) is a bank whose registered office is 25 Gresham Street, London, EC2V 7HN. It is admitted that the Claimant has been a customerof the Bank at all materieal times 2) By opening an account with the Bank, the customer enters into a commercial arrangement with the Bank for the provision of banking services. The Bank is entitled, as part of that arrangement, to charge for those services. At account opening, a customer is provided with details of the banks charges, currently in a leaflet a guide to our banking charges. By using the account, the customer acknowledges that the charges are incorporated into the contract. For personal customers, a number of services are provided for free, notwithstanding that they are an expense to the Bank.Such services presently include, but are not limited to, providing; Cheques Bank Statements The facility to make payments by direct debit and standing order debit cards ATMs 3) By maintaining the account in credit, or within the limit agreed with the bank the customer may avoid most if not all of the charges. If the customer fails to ensure that there are sufficient cleared funds in the account to cover payments, whether by cheque, debit card, standing order or direct debit, the customer makes a request for the payment to be made form the banks own funds. If the bankmakes payment, or returns the payment, it provides a service as specified in the leaflet and makes a charge in accordance with the terms of the contract. On Page One of the leaflet the bank explains that there are normally no charges for everyday banking at Lloyds TSB if the account is in Credit When you use an agreed overdraft, there is no monthly fee and we only charge interest on the amount you are overdrawn each day. When you go overdrawn without an agreement or where you use special services such as copy statements, we will make a charge. This guide explains how these charges work and when they will apply. If you want to use a service we haven't listed, we'll tell you the cost before you give the go-ahead. 4) There is no breach of contract, the charge cannot therefore be a penalty, consequently there is no requirement that the charge be a pre-estimate of the banks loss. 5) The customer is given advance warning of charges being imposed; statements show the charges, if any, the customer has incurred during the course of a month and which will appear as debits on the followingmonths statement. Customers arewarned by letter when they go overdrawn or over their agreed limit without arrangement with the bank. If the customer fails to remedy the position and payments such as direct debits and standing orders are refused again, then the customer is warned by letter. 6) The charges are fair and reasonable and it is denied that they are unlawful. 7) The Customer is notified in plain, intelligable language at the conclusion of the contract and on each monthlt statement. The charges are terms which relate to the price payable by the customer for a service provided by the bank and pursuant to Regulation 6 of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, are not subject to the assessment of fairness. 8) In the Premises: 8.1) The charges are for banking services and are not damages or a penalty 8.2) The Bank is entitled by contract to impose the charges, which are fair and reasonable. 8.3) It is denied that the charges are unlawful or contravene any statute or regulation 9) The Claimants claim is denied in its entirelty. It is further denied that the claimant is entitled to any sum claimed or to any sum from the Bank." So there! I get the bit about the charges being a price paid for a service rather than a penalty for a breach of contract. To be honest, that bit worries me a little. I intend to ask the Bank to supply the original credit agreement as part of the "Other information to be supplied by the Other Party" part of the allocation questionnaire, so I'm hoping that will trip them up. Suggestions/Comments anyone? I have until 13/11 to get the form to the local County Court with a payment of £100. Sorry its so long.

Hi all, Just thought I'd say Hi. Got a few irons in the fire myself, thanks to Martins Money Tips and this group. Scores on the doors so far Lloyds TSB - £3900 - Gone to court, waiting for them to submit a defense, They have until 27/10 to do that. Citi Cards - £540 - Usual old rubbish - got the long-winded letter from their solicitor that others in the group seem to have got. They have until 31/10/06 before I start court action. Got a cheque for part payment £270. Accepted it on condition it was a part payment and on the understanding I'll be chasing them for the rest. Capital One - £534 - Again, usual old rubbish. Their time is up, just waiting for pay day before I start action on Moneyclaim online. Monument - £240 - Ditto Lloyds TSB Gold Card - now there's a tale. Wrote off with Subject Access Request - Nothing heard. Sent threatening letter, again nothing heard. Was about to file papers in court for an order under the Data Protection Act. Realised none of the letters I had sent had been sent by recorded delivery, so the bank could well claim they never got them. Doh!! Start again on that. In the meantime, because I'm broke and haven't been paying on that card, got threatening letters from a debt collector about it. Wrote back asking them for evidence that I had consented in writing for Lloyds to pass on my details. Got a letter back saying it was in my contract etc etc. Wrote back and asked them to prove it. Nothing heard in 6 weeks. Wrote to them today, recorded delivery with a £1 postal order asking for a true copy of the credit agreement. Reminded them that under s78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 that they have to provide me with this within a month and that if they don't, a) they have committed a Criminal Offence and b) the agreement is unenforceable. Watch this space. Next up - check credit history for 2 default notices for Lloyds Personal Loans which I believe are there, but I never received the notices. If they are, that's another 2 S78 CCA requests going in. Watch this space - sorry it's so long. Keep up the good work guys. The days of big £multi-billion blatantly flouting the law at the expense of us, their customers, may well be numbered. "Artificial Intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"