Just to put this thread to rest...I've accepted and received payment of all of the total, minus the £400 as per their offer. It was pretty exhausting going through this, and I don't think I could have done it without all the help from this forum. I'm going to make a donation towards the running of this site as I think it is a great free resource for people in need of help with this kind of thing and I really appreciate all the help I have been given

I'll post it but it's not pretty reading! Obviously I disagree with a lot of these points...but , I can understand how they would feel these ways about things due to the lack of ongoing dialogue throughout this project...They aren't aware of things that come up on a day to day basis that cause delays and changes to plans so would be left I won't bother rebutting any of these on here unless asked as I'm not sure how relevent it is...Just to put it out there though...we have done four other large project on this day work basis (although wont do any more) and on every other occasion have left on good terms, been recommended by them and have been invited back to do more work for one. On thing I would say is that he says the £400 is in liue of the lights and the materials left on site...I have already taken off the £160 bookkeeping charge to pay for the lights **** I can see that you are not responding to the reasonable requests for information that has been requested. And to be honest from the exchange of emails between yourself and us, your tone is unhelpful. During this exchange we have tried to keep a professional dialogue going with you and to try and get you to understand our view point but that is just not happening. From earlier in this exchange you were vocal in your opinion on us and how we have treated you, now I can no longer be silent. Throughout this build you have been more worried about your subcontractors than your client, us. We have tried to be a good client by paying on receipt of invoice and dealing with any queries or requests promptly so you can get the build complete. This has not been reciprocated. Your responses have been vague with a lack of commitment to time or cost, and as a result incurring additional costs for us. You still haven’t confirmed what you are taking responsibility for and you continue to be vague in your response. As a result we can only conclude you are taking responsibility for all works completed whilst you were on site, as well as when payments were made directly to the other contractors by us. This is the only conclusion to be drawn from the lack of a response. There was a clear expectation that you would complete a working drainage system, in line with the quote you submitted and the discussions on site. When we hired you we were expecting and were lead to believe that you were a contractor with the necessary experience and knowledge to undertake our extension and all the works discussed. This has not been the case. When discussing issues you have implied that you have given us the information and that its up to us, at no point did we feel that you were responsible for the build as the contractor. This is one of our main exceptions and which we felt you let us down on. We still cannot understand your decision making process as you were frequently asking us to make decisions on small insignificant items but on other larger items we were totally disregarded. Your work ethic since we agreed to go day rate has been somewhat disappointing and we feel that you have taken advantage of us in how you have managed the work. Taking 3 days with 3 people to dig a soak away and taking 7 working days to do the breakthrough was unbelievable. Having had building work done before we feel that this was overly lengthy and we believe if you had been working to a fixed price your work rate would have been better. Because of your belligerent attitude and lack of ownership we feel we have been unable to raise any issues as your attitude has been condescending and at no point have you taken ownership as the contractor. Having your terms and conditions 2 weeks before start on site is hardly good business practice and left us in a position of either we went ahead or left at such a late stage of finding another contractor. You had already delayed the build by 2 months from the original start date because you fitted in an additional 4 week project elsewhere. When you talk about terms and conditions, you have failed to take in consideration what we were receiving as a service. We hired you on the basis that you were a competent contractor, what in fact we received was something different. At every stage there was no responsibility taken by yourself for the build. We employed you as an experienced builder and from our perspective this has not been the case, as well as having limited skills in your team you also had limited access to other contractors. When told what materials were needed, we have ordered them and on frequent occasions has had to chase you for the information so that the materials were on site in time, even when the suppliers were chasing you and complaining about a lack of response. Again this incurred additional costs due to the increase of prices in January 2022 of 8% on average. During your last few weeks it was also rather obvious that your time on site was limited as **** was here mainly by himself as a labourer. Over the course of the build your time keeping has been inconsistent and not in keeping with what you said would happen. Whilst we appreciate that there was planning time for you as you leave early to pick up you child and you said you would use this time later in the day to plan, the amount of days that you and your team were off site before 4.30 was significant. This would have been acceptable if we were not paying day rates, we do not feel that over the course of the build we have had full value from this. Taking into consideration your teams timekeeping both at the start and end of the day, we feel that we have been used and disrepected. In addition, I am sure that you did take phone calls for other work whilst on site which you appear not to have taken into account. You were asked in December to provide a fixed price or a fixed timeline, neither was delivered. This has incurred us additional cost in the region of £1,000. It became clear over the Christmas period that you were not to be relied upon to make deadlines and to keep to your commitments. At this point we insisted on a time plan which was vague and unprofessional. At this point we felt we had no choice to get the work done as quickly as possible and to get you off site, hence we tried to keep our distance and to be honest not say what was on our minds. Taking 13 weeks to handover a partially completed building was poor. Your email says that you are not are not prepared to accept payment in full settlement of the invoice - you’ll need to clarify as I’ve assumed this is not what you intended to write. I would suggest that you reduce the invoice by £400 in lieu of the lights, the unopened materials you left on site and which were paid from your accounts (and which only you can return) and hours left from site before “day rate” completed. You have declined the option to pick these materials up over the last 2 months. The payment can be made upon receipt of an amended invoice. If not, we can proceed to court and utilise the mediation that will be offered to try and resolve this issue.

They have offered to pay full amount, minus a £400 deduction for materials left on site. I disagree with the £400 deduction but am tempted to take the offer...any thoughts?

@Manxman in exile That drawing is just a bog standard (well below average if I'm being honest) architectural drawing that was drawn up for the job as instructed by the client so that builders can quote/work from it. It was drawn before we even went round for an initial visit The key should explain the details I added...it was just to show Bankfodder the extent of the drainage works we carried out as I didn't think it had been clear before Have a look at the note circled in biro...the drains were unknown and the circle on there was just a (wrong) guess by the plan drawer as to the position of the existing drain We were only ever doing this on a dayrate basis....we had agreed to get it to a wind and watertight stage and go from there. They knew it would be cheaper to employ plasterers, decorators, kitchen fitters etc direct rather than going through us so it was never the plan for us to do all of the work. The subbies that had already been on site with us were trades that we would work with anyway wether it was quoted or not. They were paid direct by the client rather than through me. I only charged for my labour and the two people I have working for me...everything else was paid directly by the client to the relevant sub contractor There doesn't appear to be any concerns over the standard of work, just a sense of injustice that they paid a lot for the drains and I guess they want to blame me for this. It's easy for the people who eventually fitted the pumped drain to come in and say it should have been done differently, especially as I'm sure that the client would have been questioning them and wanting to hear that answer anyway. As I said above I'm not convinced anyone has actually done a drain survey and made any solid suggetions as to what this other solution should have been. We inspected all posibiliites..lifted the neighbours drains, checked all levels with a laser looking for some way to connect without using a pump...then discussed options with building control and client and it was deemed a pump was the most suitable/only option Hope that answers your questions..feel free to let me know if not!

I've adjusted slightly just to alter some timescales and correct some bits about work carried out as below. Do you think I should mention that I am happy to take responsibility for the works I have personally carried out...it seems like this is a big hurdle for him to move forward in this discussion.

The only response I can think of is to say "I am happy to take responsibility for all work I have undertaken and been paid directly for", I don't know wether to get bogged down in all the drain talk or not There was never any discussion of waiting for drains to be tested before being paid. In fact I would say it goes against the entire three months I was there and being paid weekly

Ok, looking at his email there doesn't seem to be a great deal I can respond to...Ill post here again The drain and pumps were commissioned (i.e. became usable) on Wednesday the 13 April when **** **** Services completed the installation work. On the morning of Friday the 15th April you then sent your letter before action email. The communication from me is because the drains have now been tested. In my email of the 13 March I confirmed that I would respond to you, however your letter before action changed what the response would be. The last payment was delayed because the internal drains could not be tested. Because of the breakdown in trust, my preference is to resolve this by email. In your last email you say that it is the threat of court action that has prompted an exchange, however concerns over the final bill have previously made. Your threat of court action has meant I am asking questions about the reason why this solution was suggested. I have contacted Building Control as well in line with your response as you have suggested this was their advice. The cost of the installation has been c£3,500 (in addition to the cost of the pump). The reason for asking about your conversations with suppliers was to ascertain was the cost of installation discussed? The 4 firms who came to quote all stated that the pump was an expensive solution and the existing drains could have been changed. I am not clear why this option was not pursued. I just accepted your advice that this was the only option and in hindsight I wish I had asked other companies with appropriate experience to provide the solution. The only response I can think of is Hi **** I am happy to take responsibility for any works I have been paid directly to undertake

This is my particulars of claim...what do you think? I am claiming three days labour for two people plus materials that I supplied to **** **** in the process of working on his extension. We had an agreement in place whereby I would charge weekly for labour, and any materials I supplied would be charged at cost to me plus 10%. This agreement had been honoured through my (roughly) three months on the job but payment is being withheld on my final invoice

They were all needed for various aspects of the job which are outside our expertise..I would probably say he commisioned them but maybe I'm biased. It was agreed before the job that I would get my usual subbies to give him quotes for their bits and he was welcome to get other quotes and use whoever he wanted. He dealt directly with the roofer I use from day one and I wasn't involved in those discussions. He used his own electrician and plumber I recommended a bricklayer who turned up on dayrate and was paid directly by the client I recommended a carpenter to him who has been working on dayrate and in email contact with him about ongoing works I'm not invloved with (fitting kitchen etc)

Also, sorry...one other thing! I'm registering now and it costs £205 for my claim..is this added to my claim?

Just to clarify the about me saying I'm happy to take responsilibity for work I have been paid for. During the job, there were other trades coming and going doing various aspects of the build. Carpenters, plumbers, a bricklayer, roofers and electricians. These were all paid directly by the client and not through me so I feel that that I'm liable only for the work we did ourselves and were paid to do...nothing else. Would you agree?

Ah ok...I was just putting the drawing up as it's pretty hard to explain the exact situation to you and I thought it may make it easier to just see how little involvement I have actually had in the drains. Deadline expires next Friday and I will start proceedings straight away...I'm just about to register with MCOL Do you think it would hurt if I said that I take responsibily for any work I was paid directly to do, and not work that others were paid to do? It seems this is a sticking point for him to move forward with the conversation

Maybe i should have done this sooner, but i'll attach the working drawing which I have adjusted to show the drainage runs and what was done by who. I literally put 3 metres of empty pipe into the ground with a slight fall towards the outside ready to be connected onto at a later date. Picture the downpipe from your guttering but laid horizontally underground. As you can see from the note on the drawing which I have circled, the drains were always an unknown quantity and we have swapped emails before the job started discussing this. It was always going to be a case of once the job starts we find the drains and go from there. The installation that they are asking about on their email is for the pump and is not work that I carried out. I honestly don't know how the costs compare with adjusting the drains instead of the pump. We did look at all possibilities and even lifted next doors drain to look at options of joining in further down the run but it didn't seem possible/practical It's not uncommon for other builders/contractors to go onto a job after another builder and just start saying things like "I wouldn't have done it like that....shoulda done this mate", especially with the client asking them questions that would lead them that way. It's all well and good saying that we should have adjusted drains and done it differently but I doubt anyone has investigated the possibilities of actually doing that as much as we did or has a clear picture of how this would work. Its all generic...I don't hear any specific ideas of how we should have done it coming from them As a side note as I don;t know much about this, how does the consumer rights act apply in this case. I did a look for information n it and it seems that it would be saying that all of our previous communication is taken into account and forms a contract of sorts..or have I mis understood? Drain layout.pdf

I've had a bit of time to digest this now and have put some thoughts in red after some of the clients comments. I am not necessarily suggesting them as replies to him, just information for you The drain and pumps were commissioned (i.e. became usable) on Wednesday the 13 April when **** **** Services completed the installation work. On the morning of Friday the 15th April you then sent your letter before action email. The communication from me is because the drains have now been tested. In my email of the 13 March I confirmed that I would respond to you, however your letter before action changed what the response would be. And a month passed after that with silence from them despite my asking for some basic information such as what they meant by "commisioned" and when I could expect for this to take place The last payment was delayed because the internal drains could not be tested. Because of the breakdown in trust, my preference is to resolve this by email. In your last email you say that it is the threat of court action that has prompted an exchange, however concerns over the final bill have previously made. Your threat of court action has meant I am asking questions about the reason why this solution was suggested. I have contacted Building Control as well in line with your response as you have suggested this was their advice. The cost of the installation has been c£3,500 (in addition to the cost of the pump). The reason for asking about your conversations with suppliers was to ascertain was the cost of installation discussed? No cost of installation was discussed The 4 firms who came to quote all stated that the pump was an expensive solution and the existing drains could have been changed. I am not clear why this option was not pursued. I just accepted your advice that this was the only option and in hindsight I wish I had asked other companies with appropriate experience to provide the solution. I agree the pump is an expensive solution...it doesnt necessarily mean its the wrong solution. What suggestions did they make? In your email you ask me to express any objections to the work you have carried out. I have asked in the last 2 emails what work you are taking responsibility for. I am happy to take responsibility for any work I have taken payment for and not for any work other people have been paid directly to do Once you have replied to the above then we can move onto discuss payment.

I have received another reply...Just off to work so will check back in later **** The drain and pumps were commissioned (i.e. became usable) on Wednesday the 13 April when **** **** Services completed the installation work. On the morning of Friday the 15th April you then sent your letter before action email. The communication from me is because the drains have now been tested. In my email of the 13 March I confirmed that I would respond to you, however your letter before action changed what the response would be. The last payment was delayed because the internal drains could not be tested. Because of the breakdown in trust, my preference is to resolve this by email. In your last email you say that it is the threat of court action that has prompted an exchange, however concerns over the final bill have previously made. Your threat of court action has meant I am asking questions about the reason why this solution was suggested. I have contacted Building Control as well in line with your response as you have suggested this was their advice. The cost of the installation has been c£3,500 (in addition to the cost of the pump). The reason for asking about your conversations with suppliers was to ascertain was the cost of installation discussed? The 4 firms who came to quote all stated that the pump was an expensive solution and the existing drains could have been changed. I am not clear why this option was not pursued. I just accepted your advice that this was the only option and in hindsight I wish I had asked other companies with appropriate experience to provide the solution. In your email you ask me to express any objections to the work you have carried out. I have asked in the last 2 emails what work you are taking responsibility for. Once you have replied to the above then we can move onto discuss payment.