Didntdoit
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OMG !! Just read this. Who is this person? Mr Bully Buffer fikko? Horrible person. Bully Alert ! Bully Alert ! Bully Alert ! I thought this Forum was for civil people? I think you better get back to Facebook where your sort belong ! Anyway, just thought I'd check in to let you know that I've had my court hearing and I haven't been prosecuted. TFL suffered no loss and it wasn't in the public interest plus TFL actions were disproportionate in the circumstances..... or words to that effect. It was interesting hearing all you people give me advice. I particularly liked the comment about my mum being "impartial" if she represented me in court. You never mentioned the lack of impartiality between magistrates and TFL - lol !! you people lol!!
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I have picture I can upload of the McDonalds signage if anyone's interested
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Yes that's what the Deputy Head of one crappy Sixth Form said to me recently. On that basis she never fought for anything, never stood for anything. She was gutless and unkind too (not that you are Honeybee). I agree with you honeybee, life is unfair but that doesn't mean we should stop fighting to make it better and fairer. It doesnt mean we have to join in and follow cos you think nothing can be done about it. We have to stand apart, stand up and be counted and encourage others to do teh same. Say "Hell, No! to TFL Bro !"
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I see what you're saying Old Codja. However will you please consider this and by the way thank you for replying. I see that the offence is a strict liabilty one which cannot be denied. BUT, it is not enough surely for TFL to ignore its own Policies when it comes to deciding to pursue someone? Otherwise that would be stupid. In my case, TFL failed to abide by its own Revenue Enforcement and Prosecution Policy as well as the Home Office Guidelines on the deterrence of keeping young people out of the criminal justice system. In particular, TFL failed to apply its policy on how to deal with "youths" (implying school age or young people) and the decision whether or not to prosecute. I am 18 and at the time of the alleged offence I was of compulsory school age (which was raised to 18 last year FYI). I was effectively a minor (up until July this year) and I still had to wait outside a corner shop if I'm wearing my school uniform as the shop owner only lets two in at a time (crazy I know) - otherwise there's a lot of adults wearing school uniforms around. But that isn't even my biggest point. s8(2)(e) is as going through the barriers was unavoidable in the circumstances not to mention that my eyes were diverted from the small compulsory ticket signage by a massive McDonalds burger ad immediately, yes immediately at eye level as it was placed directly on the ticket barrier averting your eyes to it. You are right also, it is about principle. It would also not be in the public interest to pursue me because of all the above. Don't you agree ?
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Honey bee - Yes I probably am but I thought the notes actually WERE the witness statement? The witness statement is nothing more than a typed up version of our verbal conversation at the station. Wasn't I supposed to be offered to sign his notes or something ? Otherwise he could just write anything he wants AND in fact that is just what he DID do !
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DX - Transpires that I did receive an initial letter but there wasn't any law on it. It didn't say on what law they were charging me so my mother replied thinking they were going to have on "boarding a train without a ticket" so she argued that it didn't happen (she's dodgy like that). Alright Bazza i WILL read the cases if you point me in the right direction - Just gone back to Oxford Circus and they have a very small sign on the barriers that NO ONE can read if they're in a rush (defo not nan and grandad cos they're half blind anyway) so the sign is completely inadequate. There's got to be a case about inadequate signage surely ? As regards my ticket case, we both have the same ones and nans is identical too. Before I go could someone get back to me about the RI's witness statement because I am sure he should've run it past me to see if I agree and then sign - I don't of course. Thanks again
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Thank DX for your help here. Well I've never received a letter asking me for my side of the events. All I've got is this Single Justice Procedure Notice in which it asks me how I plead and gives me a sheet to explain why I am pleading this way. In that document the RI has made a Witness Statement !! I thought a Witness Statement had to be signed by me as well? Any idea ? Well its a lot of money to an 18 year old whose just left school so I defo not paying and I will put my case forward - its just bullying tactics to get money out of us
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Thanks DX for that info - they want £260 !!! - I will see what the others have to say about it before I make a decision - but you must admit, it is definitely disproportionate on TFL's part
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DX100uk - It happened in May 2016 - why do you ask please? and to King12345 - I appreciate that so thanks. I am not just going to pay up cos I'm frightened of the consequences. I will go to court if I have to and fight for proportionality and quote them their own Policy on how to deal with stuff. If I could just get a couple of cases (short ones, I hate reading) with the words "honest mistake" (thanks for that) I might be able to put it forward but there's no way I'm paying a penny on principle - just think of the tax papers' money that its going to cost for all this. Glad I'm not paying. Probs going back to oxford circus to see if there are any signs saying "compulsory ticket area" So if this is a strict liability thing then I only half done it because I honestly believed I had my ticket even tho I didnt, right? Is there a case about that ? Any other help from anyone would be appreciated Thanks everyone
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Thanks Honeybee What I've got is a Form headed "Single Justice procedure Notice" and underneath it says " You have been charged with an offence committed on a Transport for London service as detailed in the attached pack - You now have 21 days to plead either guilty or not guilty to the offence" so I am going to plead "not guilty". Message to King 12345 Do you know for sure that this is a strict liability offence ? Can you show me where you got that info please? My own research says that it is rare for a s.17 offence to get a criminal record - I'm not paying anything unless absolutely necessary - I have a feeling that you might work for TFL - Has no one heard of proportionality round here ?
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I went through the barriers at Oxford Circus with Grandad's freedom pass (which I used by mistake thinking it was my own ticket - we'd gone out to lunch for my 18th and he gave me his stuff to look after) and got stopped rather aggressively by a Revenue Inspector. I got the impression that he was the police 'cos he read me my rights. I was sh .... ing myself cos I'm not from London but had heard stories of brutality from the police. This guy was definitely trying to provoke a physical response from me but I kept my cool 'cos I was in a suit. He questioned me about the freedom ticket and I explained what had happened. He was having none of it. He was so close to my face that he was spraying spit too. I just immediately volunteered to go and get a ticket which I did and after extensive questioning and detaining me, continued my journey. Next thing I know, I've been charged under s.17(1) TFL Bye law (is this a strict liability offence?) for apparently entering a "compulsory ticket area" without a ticket (I'm not a Londoner and so was pretty shocked by Revenue Inspector's behaviour). He is relying on his statement. I am pleading not guilty because having traced my steps back to Oxford Circus I can't see that it is a compulsory ticket area. My mother is livid and wants to countersue for the guy's behaviour. What I want to ask is (a) because I bought a ticket before getting on a train does that get me off the hook (b) the RI's statement is a lie - it's as if I've been framed because of the way he's worded it. Is the RI's statement still valid if I haven't signed it? Can I sue him back? Is there any good case law I can use in my defence, please. Thank you.
