Barno12
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Everything has been filed now. Thanks for all your help B
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Apologies this is a cleaner more readable version. Could you please remove the previous attachment? Thanks B Defence Statement (1).pdf
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Hi Thanks for all the advice and comments it is really appreciated. I have been lackadaisical with this but have put together the attached defence statement . I know there was a lot more I could/should state. I will be submitting this in to the county court in person tomorrow. That will be two days late. How much will that go against me? Should I add a covering later highlighting and apologising for the late submission? I will also send to bwl by 2nd class too. Appreciate any feedback on the defence statement on anything I should omit and also the points I have disputed particularly under the PoFA. Would I also have to submit the PCN in my defence as it is referenced in the statement? Thanks B
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Great, thanks once again for the advice B
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Thanks dx
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thanks Ericsbrother I have gone back to BWL and said the documents are not legible something which I will be reporting to the court and requesting they send it in the post. I am just writing up the defence now
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Apologies about the file size. It was a scanned pdf that bwl sent which was 8 MB and poor quality Doing it at the highest compression was unreadable so I opted for the medium. Thanks B docs1.pdf
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Great thanks very much B
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It was due today I have messed up on the dates
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Update I have just picked up my emails and BW legal have at 16.59 emailed me a copy of their defence 21 pages in which they have attached copies of the original NTK, map of the area and marked where i was stopped in relation to this and the signage, plus photos of the signage. They state in their defence that they have been granted a non exclusive license by the landowner of the site to occupy the site and provide a parking control service to enforce the T&Cs of the site, they have provided a copy of the contract between the landowner and VCS. They state that the signage specifically detail the T&Cs and by stopping the vehicle i therefore accepted the T&Cs and that by seeing the signage i would have therefore known a contract was being formed. With regards to the signage not being clear they state that they are a member of an Accredited Trade Association and to access keeper details from the DVLA they must adhere to the schemes code of practice and that their signs fully comply with this. They state that the signs are clearly displayed and that i would have had the opportunity to read and understand them before i stationed the vehicle on the roadway. They have also stated in establishing that there has been offer and acceptance, the signage situated across the Car Park forms a unilateral offer to anyone wishing to park their vehicle at the site. Having considered the advice you have given and looking at parkingprankster blog i think the points they make in their defence all could be argued against but as i have missed the deadline on the submission of statements and further evidence am I now in a very weak position with my case in court? Thanks B
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Thank you very much ericsbrother I have dropped the bloody ball with this as submitted my defence and not my witness statement so won't be able to get it to the court or bwl within the 14 day limit. It is actually today. I found a couple of discontinuation of claim from bwl for the same site as me on that parking prankster blog and a real useful post on the signage of that site there too. Thanks for that. But I can't use them as evidence now can I? I also wonder how close to the court date it was when bwl decided to discontinue. I suspect that I would have heard something by now if they had decided to do that with my case. So not having issued my witness statement I assume I can only turn up to court with what I have already submitted in the defense? The original NTK was unfortunately misplaced around the time I first received it. Before bwl got involved etc Thanks B
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Thanks for the advice, the court letter said I had to submit any evidence which was going to be used to all parties 14 days prior to the court date, I'm at the 14 days tomorrow would this mean that I can't rely on anything other than what I submitted as the original defence at the court hearing?
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No WS(witness statement?) filed. BW legal have sent no docs other than a DQ saying witnesses TBC and they ticked for mediation which I didn't. DQ I put no to mediation Yes to agree to small claims track. Liverpool for preferred court No to expert evidence TBC to witnesses... I haven't submitted anything for this. Will this go against me? Yes to some days I could not attend No to not requiring an interpreter And that was it. Thanks B
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Hi, Just wanted to update to say I have a confirmation date for a small claims court hearing in Liverpool on March 15th. I said no to mediation and submitted the below defence. 1. It is admitted that the Defendant is the owner of vehicle *****. 2. It is denied that there is the ability to enter into a contract with the Claimant as the signs which are in place refer to no stopping which it is denied creates a contract for the Defendant to enter into and rather this is a prohibitive notice. 3. If there was a contract it is denied that the Claimant has the ability to enter into a contract with the Defendant. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the land is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. The proper Claimant is the landowner. A CPR 31.14 request was made to the Claimant on the 24 September 2016 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of proof of assignment from the landlord to create contracts and make claims in their own name and proof of planning permission granted for signage under the Town and Country Planning Act 2007 . A response to this request was received on 6 October 2016 from the Claimant denying the request. 4. Furthermore if there was a contract, it is denied that the penalty charge is incorporated into the contract. As per Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking [1971] 2 QB 163, the relevant term must be made known before a contract was formed. Here, the charge was not incorporated into the contract because the signage in which it states no stopping could only be read by stopping the vehicle. 5. Save as expressly mentioned above, the Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. I was meant to declare to all parties 15 days before the hearing any evidence and witnesses but have only provided the above defence. I am just wondering if anyone can provide any insight/experience of what to expect at the hearing. Thank you B
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Great, thank you.
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Hi I am just after a bit of clarification on what I should submit for my defence please. Should I just copy section 2 from http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...-Viewing)-nbsp minus point 2 and fill in the blanks, also changing the use of car park to private land or does that not really matter? I am also not clear on which paragraphs of the POFA have not been complied with and I annoyingly misplaced the original NTK letter so would you suggest I also omit that section from the defence? Thanks very much B
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Hi, Thank you for your response. The letter from bwlegal arrived today. Dated 6 October 2016 Our client: Vehicle Control Services Limited Account Number: xxxxxxxxxxx Balance: £232.54 We write in reference to the above matter and your correspondence dated 24 September 2016. It is our client's position that it is the lawful occupier of the Car Park (Was not a car park though) and enforces and manages the Car Park terms in a reasonable manner as per its contractual agreement with the Landowner. Furthermore, our clients authority was detailed in the signage as displayed at the site in question. The contract between the Landowner and our client is legally privileged document and we will not be disclosing the document to you unless ordered to do so by the Court. In response to your point raised regarding Planning Permission, please note that in terms of the lease with the Landowner, contains a definition of our clients rights in regards to the signage located within the Car Park. Any accusations that are(sic) client is in breach of any planning regulations are refuted. We trust the above is satisfactory. Yours faithfully BW legal I do like the way they keep referring to it as a car park. Once again I appreciate any response/ suggestions. Thanks, B
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Hi I went on to the MCOL website did the ACK (AOS) and sent the letter suggested in the posts above to BW legal on 24 Sep before my holiday, I'm yet to receive any response from them and just wondering how long i should give them to respond before moving forward with the defence form, I know i have until 21 Oct to submit but I'm away with work that week for a few days so want to ensure I have the defence form ready before then if I can. I'm not sure how best to approach the defence claim from the letter I sent BW back in August when I stated that there is no keeper liability as the protocols of the POFA haven't been followed to create one and that there is no contract offered by their signage so cannot be a breach of one, they did belatedly respond stating that the vehicle stopped on a roadway where stopping was prohibited and by stopping in a prohibited area the vehicle has contravened the prohibition They also confirmed that their client does not rely upon the POFA. Thanks
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Thank you very much once again for your guidance. It is much appreciated. B
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Name of the Claimant - Vehicle Control Services Limited Date of issue – 21 SEP 2016 Date to acknowledge) = 09 OCT 2016 date to submit defence = by 4pm 21 OCT 2016 What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim? 1.The Claimant's Claim a sum of £100.00 being monies due from the Defendant to the Claimant in respect of a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) issued on 28/03/2016 (Issue Date) at 15:23:55 at International Business Park Liverpool Peel L and Property Ltd. The PCN relates to Honda under registration xxxxxxx. 2.The terms of the PCN allowed the Defendant 28 days from the Issue Date to pay the PCN, but the defendant failed to do so. Despite demand having being made, the Defendant has failed to settle their outstanding liability. 3.The Claim also includes Statutory Interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum a daily rate of 0.02 from 28/03/2016 to 20/09/2016 being an amount of £3.54. 4.The Claimant also claims £54.00 contractual costs pursuant to PCN Terms and Conditions. What is the value of the claim - £232.54 (Amount claimed £157.54, Court fee £25.00, Legal representative's costs £50.00) Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim ? - VCS but Signed by BW Legal Services Limited (Claimant's Legal Representative) Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Yes Hopefully done that correct. Thank you again for the assistance.
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Hi, Received a County Court claim form today with 14 days to reply of the date of service. After going this far with it I want to proceed with the "disagree with the claim" option. I was just looking for a bit of guidance on the best way/ wording for filling in the Defence please. Thanks, B Sorry forgot to add that I am out of the country for 9 nights from Sunday and the letter is dated 21st September so I assume I would need to respond tomorrow wouldn't I? Thanks B
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Hi, I received a "Letter Of Claim" dated 16th August from bwlegal. No reference of the letter I sent to them stating " There is no keeper liability as the protocols of the POFA haven't been followed to create one etc" as suggested Their letter states that they are yet to receive payment and/or a response to their letter. So they want the balance paying by 2nd September to prevent legal action being taken. £100 parking charge and £54 for VCS' legal fees. They then go on to use the case of ParkingEye Limited v Beavis 2015 UKSC 67 to suggest that this case eliminates the main defence that you may have should the matter go to court. Mentioned if claim has gone unsuccessfully through an IAS then County Court would likely come to the same conclusion. Then finally they use the CCJ scare tactic. Would you suggest as in the Help-bw-legal-letter-of-claim-Oct-2015-Excel-PCN thread I send another letter to bwlegal with the one line response? "it is denied that any monies are owed to your client relating to the supposed event of 28 March 2016 as no keeper liability has been created and in any case no contract entered into by the driver at the time. Please refer this back to your client". Thanks very much, B
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Thank you for the brilliant advice I will keep you updated
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Hi I did not outright admit I was the driver only the reason we had stopped and that the PCN was contested. This was to VCS though and no response received. I have just attached a pdf containing pics of the signage and the dead end area where I was photographed by VCS. Thanks B Doc1.pdf
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Out of curiosity can VCS use the photographs taken by their mobile camera to prove who was driving as their first letter showed the 2 photographs with a short time difference to show that I had stopped in a no stopping zone? Not sure how that proves 100% that I had stopped when I was still behind the wheel on both photographs mind you.
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