Shame, I paid the re-issue one on Monday as it was my last day of the discount. Interestingly, this time I had the 14 days plus 2 business days of assumed delivery time of the pcn, so they must have changed their system after my appeal. Annoyingly I had a feeling that I was right in that they cannot simply ignore my appeal and instead send out a new pcn instead. I just couldn't be bothered to ignore the new one and demand a response to my initial appeal. I doubt I can go back now and contest the payment being made :(

Anyone?

Hi everyone, I had a PCN for the Dart Charge, I forgot to pay the fee the next day. The Contravention time and date was the 09/07 at 11:24. The PCN issue date was Friday 17/07. At the bottom of the PCN it clearly says *service of this notice: Unless the contrary is proved, service of this penalty charge is deemed to have been effected on the second working day after the issue date shown at the top of this page. This would mean that my statutory 14 days would start counting on Tuesday 22/07 and give me until Tuesday 04/08 to pay. However, I tried to pay this Sunday 02/08 and it already showed the increased charge online. I gave them a call on Monday 03/08 to explain that I still have 2 days left to pay at the reduced rate. The woman on the phone said that they start counting from the issue date. I told here this would be wrong and referred her to the note re effective date at the bottom. She said I would have to appeal. I did appeal this on 08/08 on the grounds of being a procedural impropriety. I have never received any response to my appeal, but instead I have just received a new PCN with a new issue date (03/09) but for the same PCN number/contravention details are the same. Am I right in thinking this is completely against protocol? It would be great if someone could shed light on this. This new ticket is dated 03/09 (thursday), so again, my 14 days start counting on the 07/09 (this is the date i received it). I would be interested to see if my reduced fee expired by tomorrow or by Monday Thanks in advance! Best, P

I have drafted an email response to SIXT telling them the course of events and that I am not assuming liability. Furthermore, that I know the damage was there before and that they would have to prove to me in photos that it wasn't. I just wanted to double check that I should send it, even though I put my signature under the agents comment on his PDA on the return of the vehicle. I hope they didn't trick me into assuming liability with that signature. :/

unfortunately I signed something on the agents PDA on our return to acknowledge the damage. Can I still refuse?

Dear CAG members, I hope someone here could help us with something urgent. We only have been given 7 days for this. We hired a SIXT car from London for 1 week. When my partner and I collected the vehicle the vehicle was very dirty. I said I didn't mind it, as I didn't want to wait for 30 minutes for the agent to clean it. However, my partner said that we should have them clean it, so we could see the damages that are already present. "Fair point..." the agent said, "...but remember you have paid a premium for zero excess, so it doesn't matter what damages are present already, as any new damage would not be charged to you anyway". We thought great, but let's get it cleaned anyway as it's for mother in law's 60th birthday road trip... After the car was cleaned we were handed the keys back at the booth, told were the agent left it and sent on our way without any further taking note of anything. I was given a receipt that had all the existing damages on there. When we got home to pick up our luggage I noticed a large 10cm scratch on the rear bumper that wasn't on the receipt I've been given. It definitely wasn't us as it looked like a cast concrete bollard got it, or something with similar texture, and we didn't come past any. Anyway, we didn't have time to go back to the hire place to make this known as we had mother waiting at the train station and thought it wouldn't matter anyway as we paid for zero excess. Now, when we returned the vehicle Saturday just gone, the agent (different one this time) asked where we parked, then went to check the vehicle, noted the additional scratch, came back to us and asked me to sign the scratch on his PDA to acknowledge it. I said, we paid for Zero excess, what am I signing here? Will I be charged? He said, no, no, you won't be charged, as you paid a premium, you just need to acknowledge it. So I signed and my partner and I left. Today I had an email from SIXT saying that they are making a claim for the damage and that the online form needs to be filled in and submitted within 7 days. Because I have been registered as the main driver (mother in law was the additional driver) I now have to deal with this insurance claim and I am now worried that once the claim is submitted by SIXT, the insurers will make this known on the whole insurers network, so that next time I am looking to renew my own van insurance I will be hit with a much higher premium. I feel like SIXT have been waiting for someone like us, who they can lure into thinking that any damage unrecorded won't matter, so that they can make a claim for damages later on at my cost. Can somebody please advise what I should do? I was thinking of just writing in the statement that I am not assuming liability for the damage as it was already there. Attached is a screen shot of the form.

Hello everyone, I took out a vehicle insurance online via one of the van insurance comparison sites beginning of this month and paid the deposit of around £250 upfront with the first instalment of £130 coming out shortly after on the 10th of Feb. Now, I just got home and had a letter (dated 20/02) from the insurance company, or rather the broker as it turns out, telling me that the insurer (they don't mention the name of the insurance company) advised them that my policy must be cancelled within the next 7 days. "This is because of where your vehicle is kept overnight". The vehicle is kept on the road overnight, as I indicated on the comparison site, which based on all the information I have given listed the different insurers and their premiums, from which I had chosen this one. The letter goes on to say that I urgently have to contact them so that they can place me with an alternative insurer. Now I have a few questions: 1. First of all, I think this smells very fishy and I have doubts that this is legal? 2. I provided all the information beforehand, based on which I was given a premium. If this would have been an issue they should have not let me take out the insurance in the first place? 3. The vehicle is kept on the road overnight. I did not lie. It's not like I said it's kept in a garage when in actual fact it isn't. I mean everyone keeps their vehicle on the road, or at least the majority of the population? This would mean they would only have a handful of customers? Again, another reason why I think it doesn't make any sense? 4. Do I have 7 days from date of receipt of this letter, ie from today until the policy would be cancelled? 5. If I don't agree with this and they cancel me completely or I want to leave them as this is not a very honest start with them, can I get my money back? I haven't even been with them for a month. My installment from the 10th should at least take me up to the 10th of March, not to mention my £250 deposit I paid at the outset? 6. The premium is set up to be paid monthly through a financing deal, which I signed. Am I now required to pay the full premium every month to the Finance guys, even if the brokers or I end up cancelling altogether? I would really appreciate if someone could explain the legalities of this all to me before I give them a call as I don't want to end up playing my cards wrong. Should I get legal help/advice to get my money back? Get in touch with watchdog? I am a bit at a loss with this as you can probably tell so any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks a lot in advance!

Hi, so good news is, it's all rolled back. Bad news is that I just received the NtO again, with the same mistake on the address line again, so thanks mister post(wo)man for knowing too well where to drop this Anyhow, as this NtO is 2 years too late, am I right in assuming that this is unenforcable? I read somewher years agoo that PCNs are only valid for 1 year (if no further correspondence received), no I hear 6 months? Is that true? Can I just say that the time to enforce has lapsed and appeal on said grounds? Thanks in advance everyone!

I completely forgot after all the waiting game. :/ Just updated the old thread. Thanks!

I forgot to update this thread with the final outcome. The adjudicator agreed with the appeal and asked the LA to cancel the initial PCN. Thank you so much again everyone!

Yes, I will just proceed this way, ie sending the witness statement pointing out that neither the CC had a door number nor the OfR and hence leads me to the believe that no NtO was received due to the same mistake. I think I never appealed the PCN, because I never received a NtO until now.

No, the above background was a different one. I actually managed to appeal the LA decision with an adjudicator and he agreed with me that it should be cancelled.

Sorry, yes, of course! NTO, not PCN! Thanks for pointing out!

Hi all, a bit more than a month ago I received a 2 year old PCN from southwark that I had completely forgotten about. I noticed the letter had no house/door number. It looked like one of the neighbours put it on the envelope in pencil and then delivered. I ignored it as I believe I don't think that it is enforcable without having officially delivered and having my full address on it? As far as I am concerned it could be someone else on the street. The post lady however knows ofcourse that it must be me and keeps dropping them with my other mail. I have received a CC a few weeks ago and finally yesterday the OFR. The first 2 letters I opened, but the OFR I have not opened. Am I right in thinking that writing undeliverable - no house number on the envelope and returning it will get me out of this, or at least they realise they cannot chance it any longer and have to enquire with the DVLA to get my full details? I don't even have the vehicle anymore, which is probably why they cannot get the details and just rely on a vague memory from a previous PCN? Any insights into address field legalities would be much appreciated as I cannot seem to find anything online about it.

Great! Thanks a lot Jamberson! Just submitted everything. Fingers crossed they get back to me soon with positive news.

just doing the online appeal as it means I can send it all off tonight rather than rushing to the post etc. Just wanted to double check: am I ok to just put the following text as the appeal? I would appeal to the adjudicator on the basis that: 1. The contravention did not occur. I am being held liable on the basis of the NTO, not the PCN, and the contravention stated on the NTO did not and could not have occurred at the time given (00:34). I have pointed this out in my recent appeal to the authority, but their Rejection Notice is just a generic letter and does not address this issue. 2. There has been a procedural impropriety. I have been issued with a Charge Certificate prior to the expiry of the time allowed to consider the rejection notice and appeal to the adjudicator. The Rejection Notice is dated 20-11-15 and the Charge Certificate is dated 08-12-15 and was received 11-12-15. The Charge Certificate was therefore issued 18 days later instead of the statutory 28 days. 3. The PCN is too old to be reasonably defended, since accurate recollection of events on the day is not possible. Should I include anything else? Looking forward to any advise.

Thanks a lot Jamberson and Michael, this is exactly what I thought. I am glad to hear that this could be an easy appeal. Jamberson, I removed the times because dx100uk adivsed to take them out along with the officer number. I can see why the officer, but I am not sure why the contravention times seeing that I am mentioning those in my text anyway. Maybe he meant something else and I misunderstood? I will draft the appeal tonight and send it off first thing tomorrow. Again, thanks a lot for your adivice. I will let you know if and when I hear back from the adjudicator to let you know the final decision. Fingers crossed this is an easy winner.

thanks dx! I think its all done now. By the way, I originally left the time on the NTO and CC because they are showing midnight time not the midday time as seen on the original PCN and original NTO (NTO from last year which I cant find at the moment)

hi dx, thanks a lot for your advice. All done! removed barcodes and consolidated into one pdf.

Dear all, I came here recently with help regarding a parking fine and bailiff issue with Southwark. Everyone here was so helpful and it was a great success. Thanks a lot everyone! This time I have another problem with Lambeth. Similar in duration (Original PCN was from 22/05/14). The original NTO I appealed last year and then never heard back from them until recently (09/15) when I received an OFR out of the blue demanding £202 (£130 for the original NTO + £95 for the CC + £7 Court registration fee). I filed a witness statement stating that I appealed the original NTO, but never received a reply. The WS was accepted and the NTO and CC were ordered to be revoked. The original PCN was obviously not cancelled so I waited for Lambeth to send a new NTO, which they did on the 09/10/15. The new NTO gives the wrong time of contravention. Instead of 12:34 (controlled times between 12:00-14:00) it says 00:34. I then sent the same appeal I sent them last year PLUS the additional comment about the wrong time (ie 00:34 is outside controlled hours etc.) via recorded mail and received a rejection notice on the 20/11/15 (pretty speedy response- only 5 days after my appeal). The rejection notice is just the usual patronising, generic letter, not addressing any of my points (see my appeal below and their rejection attached). The rejection notice had an appeal form enclosed to give me the opportunity to appeal their decision to an adjudicator within 28 days after receipt of their RN. It's only been 21 days so far and today I received a new Charge Certificate from the LA dated 08/12/15, so they ignored my statutory right of 28 days to appeal their decision to the adjudicator and drafted and posted their new CC only 18 days(!!) after their rejection notice. Apart from my original appeal, which had only a weak (but reason enough?) argument of me having a grace period of 20min loading/unloading, which I didn't exceed, am I right in assuming that their mistakes from this year (wrong time on NTO, sending of CC after 18days instead of 28) is enough material to present to the adjudicator and getting approval? As always, any help would be really appreciated.

thanks for clarifying Bailiff Advice! I have not taken any action since the court order was issued. 1 week later I had the letter from the LA saying they followed correct procedures and then a couple of days after that I received the refund from Newlyn with the £75 outstanding I phoned them up and asked them where the rest had been. It's now been/approaching a month since the LA's letter and I have yet to receive the new NTO they mentioned and/or the outstanding £75. I have not received a N244 from the other party, given the evidence it is highly unlikely. "UNLESS consideration of a refund had been outlined in your N244 application." I have done exactly that. I said that I should not have had to pay the £50 fee in the first place if the council would have followed correct procedures thereby forcing me to pay the fee and the bailiff. What do you advice to be the next steps? Should I compose a letter to the LA regarding the outstanding £75 owed by Newlyn and the £50 court fee?

Thanks a lot again for your reply Jamberson! This is exactly what I thought, but wanted to double-check before making the next move. I will compose a letter to the LA this weekend and post it here to see if everything is covered. It's very frustrating indeed. However, equally I don't really mind if the end of this goes a less official route, ie instead of LA paying me back in full etc., I just pay them an outstanding £5, as it would mean a lot less letters and work for me. I know I will have to pay the £130 for the original NTO anyway, as I was parked on the wrong side of the road with my paid ticket (one side was pay and display the other was residents only) and my first attempt of challenging it by saying I was loading was accepted under the condition that I sent them a delivery note, which I don't have :/ All the best, Phil

Thanks a lot for your reply Jamberson! The following has happened since the letter from the council. 1. I have been refunded £202 by Newlyn out of the paid £277. 2. When enquiring about the outstanding £75 they said that they would keep this as by making the first payment to them I agreed to their terms and conditions as well as accepting liability for the sum demanded. I said the court order says differently and that I wouldn't have had to pay the money if the LA would have adhered to preocedures. There was no argueing with her, so I said "I will be back" 3. So far no NTO has been received following the letter from the LA. 4.Furthermore the £50 fee I had to pay for the case to be reviewed is also still outstanding. Can I write back to the LA saying that, seeing that the bailiffs are holding on to £75 and the fee of £50 I shouldn't have had to pay (if they had followed the procedures in the first place) is still not returned either, I will only pay the £5 difference to the LA to make up the amount of £130 asked of me for the PCN? Should I seek help from the parliamentary ombudsman regarding the bailiffs? Ie reporting their misconduct (I see them keeping part of the money that the court ordered to pay back in full as misconduct)? I look forward hearing your advice.

thanks a lot for your reply jamberson! things are now turning ugly, again... so, I received the official court order in which it is ordered that the order for recovery of unpaid penalty charge be revoked as well as charge certificate and the notice to owner/enforcement notice be cancelled. great news I thought hoping for the council to be in touch to refund me the difference between the original pin and what I have paid to the bailiffs plus my n244 fee which I should have never have had to pay in the first place if they would have followed the procedures. But no, today I received a letter from Southwark saying that they have investigated the case and find that correct procedures were followed. they now want another £130 for the original PCN. please see letter attached. it seems to me that my evidence was not provided to them by the court, only their order, otherwise they would know that I know about their unlawful ways and that I have requested to get my money back? Please see both letters attached. I am confused as to why the court order doesn't make any mention of ordering the council to pay me back my money? I look forward hearing your advice [ATTACH=CONFIG]59605[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]59606[/ATTACH]

Hi everyone, GREAT NEWS!! I have just had a response from the deputy district judge regarding my N244. 1. The application for leave to file a Statutory Declaration out of time/ Witness Statement to be GRANTED. Thank you so much for your help everyone! Do you know what the next steps will be? How am I going to get my £323 back from the bailiffs/LA now? Will the LA also have received a response from the judge ordering them to pay back the money? Below the order it says You have 7 days to apply to set aside or vary the order under Part 23 Rule 10. You must file with the Court and serve on the other parties an application that sets out my reasons for the objection. A fee is payable upon the filing of the objection. But I am guessing this only applies if the order was not the outcome I was hoping for? Or do I now need to file another application and pay another fee just to continue this case? Help would be much appreciated. FYI I received this letter on the 15th Sept, so the 7 day window would close tomorrow :/ Best wishes, P