You know what I do know exactly where you are coming from, after 90 mins on phone to council, with the gentleman that finally resolved this for me last week, we agreed it was a mess, everyone failed each other, they failed to provide the service they should have, I failed in that I just had enough and said no more and that was it, was more principle for me than anything. We both agreed at time I should of paid in order to clear what I believed was a good estimate to what it should of been and then left it with them the incorrect remainder, that didn't make sense as to me going off what happened already, even if I had cleared account and left their incorrect mistake as a balance, it would of more than likely appeared at court bailiffs, I would of still been away and they still wouldn't have actioned the amendment needed. But that just speculation, cant alter the past to predict the future. Thing is with me due to the way I work, I make it my priority to ensure that who ever I work for gets exactly what they asked for, exactly when they asked for it and not a single thing different in anyway, that way everyone is happy, no issues, jobs a good one and paid. Never a bad word said and one very happy client and always guaranteed to return back. When someone messes up with such the simplest task of a sodding date and after months of telling them, sending them paperwork, writing very simple emails and letters and time passes and not a single thing even done, half the time don't even acknowledge, just general we got your email someone will be in touch shortly..... yet in mean time they demand I still pay something that I don't actually owe, i start to get fed up and I'm pretty sure i am not the only one. But when it gets to end of year and still I am getting letters regards outstanding balance that was it. I refused to pay until it was actioned, the notes on my account on their system clearly show it and the reasons why But low and behold no matter what I have done, what they haven't done they then proceed to claim all of it with an order in court. Possibly had I not been away and at home the week earlier may have had enough time and clearly again pointed out the error or had chance to laugh it in their face at court in person but either way it went past that stage but still that never worked even then telling them. So many staff names had surpassed me in this time that the staff turnover was either fairly high or they don't have enough staff and other departments covered. It may of been around time of the switchover to their own managed systems though cant be certain. I don't know but it seems as though it was never picked up and actioned to end. Would of taken 5 minutes and that included pressing print and walking to printer. At then end of the day I was stubborn and stood by my own principle, they acted like they didn't care and I just had enough. When someone tells you time and time again you are making the same mistakes, there becomes a time when you lose your rag. Kids do it to me all the time. Same excuse as my kids is used, it not my fault. They did though blame it on the lady I spoke to way back when I first noted mistake and tried to properly sort in December but she has long since left but it stated on notes she requested actual tenancy agreement not would accept my scanned copy I had taken and emailed over in first instance. Though that argument surpassed rapidly when further along the timeline it states a letter from landlord confirming dates in question was noted on my account. Obviously this years bill not a real concern, I only missed 2 months and have stated would clear it once they sorted it, I just told them I never refused to pay the payments were just on hold at moment pending a noted discrepancy. They have admitted in writing today that a clerical error and oversight had occurred and apologised and offered to have bailiffs refund back the difference from what they had dent originally at and what I actually owe, at least its something. Now I just take it as high as I can to get back what I paid on top highlighting the huge mistakes and discrepancies noted during the whole fiasco. Only thing that bugs me throughout is how they can still hold me liable on a order knowing it was wrong and confirming it was wrong, stating it can just be amended but would still be valid. I went through a right fiasco with a CCJ I applied as the figures went through wrong, payments made to my account just before hearing to have judge not rule in my favour as what I was claiming was incorrect and an oversight on my behalf, then they did one and I lost out never did get what i was actually owed and ended up having to right of the debt. Subject access will definitely be used but will have to wait as cant spare the costs until i get paid next. Of all the months this one was my least busiest as we had a lot of personal things to sort and little one just started school for first time beginning of month so knew it wasn't going to be easy and I was due to restart my final courses to finish off my degree this week. But apologies now for possible lack of grammar, spelling etc, not slept for 2 days now and not sure when I next will, and now dealing with an adult and 2 sick kids not sure when that will next happen. Though somehow looking through the last 10 months, not even sure how this was even possible to get to this stage. A lot of questions to raise, whether it was an isolated incidence or whether there was incompetence, i wont know but deep down i was Data Analyst for some many years and it may be nice for an FOI request to see how isolated this may of been, at least when i hopefully see a resolution of some sorts, I can help ensure this doesn't happen again. Though when you delve and see the company running their Administration is the same company chasing monies hastily not owe you sort of answer these questions yourself. Of all the years i have to admit never once ever had an issue like this with any Local Authority, and have moved few times due to past work contracts, council tax is pretty simple in its own rights. My 4 year old can type on a computer and pretty sure if i gave him a name, address and a date to type in, i could be fairly confident he could type it exactly like it says on the paper. That said, my entire Local Authorities Tax System may be ran along the similar lines to Subway and each member of staff is responsible for a particular field/line to type in on the screen, just so happened to be on the day they did mine, the date member of staff was off sick and someone who just does the postcode field also had to do the date one aswell but that was too much to ask of them as that wasn't in their job description and they were never properly trained on dates.

Yes started it this evening, not getting far though. I spent most of today tieing up questions with answers, i.e bailiff instructions, amount outstanding, police procedure and involvement as without that everything was pointless. I spoke with a senior officers today regards police complaint, who sounded appalled at their behaviour, i think when I explained the correspodence from council, along with no action currently being taken due to their instruction, my new revised bill and then when explaining how it came about when they demanded that I allow him the keys to the car thts not mine to take and then bringing him in to take goods to the value or whatever he felt like, afterwards seemed slightly concerned, though afterwards police are police and don't really expect anything to happen much from complaint, it already mentioned regards police retraining from ploddertom that will more than likely be there excuse and will more than likely tell me they will look to preventing this happening in future. With regards Local MP, I know I need to approach that one but currently trying to work out how, i understand how to formally complain and claim maladministration regars council, seems pretty self explanatory, just have to print the 40 pieces of correspondence there is with me giving the same info time and time again and then lack of any remedial action on there behalf. The council did state that reason why is seemed to rush through Liability order even though a discrepancy was noted was that they get audited and as it was a last years account into new financial year it was pushed forward with the rest, obviously to help with their figures I suppose. Complaint about the bailiff personally is little more difficult as there are mentions in new 2014 bailiff rules about cars on finance but doesn't give clear indication on exactly what, also states items for business/employment use which were the other items he only wanted when he tried to gain entry into my office, both of which as far as I can tell are not allowed. Then the matter of acting with no instruction, no proof or signs of any paperwork. nd using Police presence to enforce only full payment. But yes, local council, Local MP, Managing Director of Equita, Formal Complaint regards Bailiff to correct ombudsman and to his employer, and then formal complaint regards the whole mess being esclated by police and their enforcement. If they had just left tell him to go on his way as he wasnt acting at time on behalf of council in that I already knew day before roughly how much I owe and then left it with me to sort as stated first thing monday which I did, none of this would occurred and I would of cleared the outstanding balance on my account, less the fees from bailiffs.

Hi I had an issue, see previous thread, locked due to comments made by other members. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?434113-Incorrect-CT-Liability-Order-and-Bailiffs-Forced-to-Pay-it-by-Police(1-Viewing)-nbsp I had an issue where council generated incorrect Liability Order stating I owed this much when I did not, it has took months and months, almost 10 in fact and they finally only 2 weeks ago stated they made a mistake and it would be resolved. Its all in the other thread. Here lies my update. After receiving my new Genuine Revised Council Tax bill on Friday morning amended to show the exact dates I actually lived in the property, actually what my outstanding balance was (stated genuine purely as someone on the other thread said I probably made bill on computer), this now differs somewhat to the liability Order they raised some time back after telling them it was wrong. Basically my question for this is what can I do with regards the Order that was raised incorrectly, even when they knew it was? Obviously if i get a bill saying I owe this much, I will pay, but when you get a balance that is somewhat higher I will not pay it regardless, especially when they refuse to amend it for whatever reason. My main pressing concern is where someone said Bailiff who entered my property aided by Police acted Lawfully. He stated he was informed by Council on Friday to proceed with order and collect Full amount Outstanding. Didn't show me proof, didn't show me ID, obviously didn't comply, called police and wasnt instructed by anyone. Police arrived, basically made me pay exactly what he was asking for without any proof from him, just a slip of paper with 4 lines and total balance. If i didn't pay, take a car not belonging to us (bill of sale in partners name only) or my Business Assets failure to comply would result would be arrested for breach of peace. So had no option but to pay leaving me with hardly anything left. Today I get informed after numerous calls over 5 hours that Council gave no instructions at all to bailiff company and that pending action wasn't being taken at present due to known error that had occurred which by this call had been rectified. So basically bailiff tried to come into property on a blatant lie, having police aide him in his so called lawful duty as they put it. Now I have email today from council telling me that it has been sorted, how much is actually owed etc, also confirming that they didn't instruct any bailiff action and that as of 1st September as per received letter it was still on hold until further notice So bailiff now definitely acted on his own accord with no instructions, lied to police who they based on his lie, aided him in forcing me to pay money I didn't have to or else I faced possibly arrest. Basically if you read thread most is on there, just now can clarify that monies was owed, but left on my account to pay was £73 for the year. Council apologised and said they will speak to Bailiff Company as they don't understand why he did this but all they could do is get them to refund the difference between the original debt on Liability Order and the Correct amount they revised it. Unfortunately their Fees are not our responsibility that goes to the bailiff so other than that that's all we can do but at least its sorted now and balance cleared and then obviously asked if I was now willing to pay outstanding for this years as refused to pay it from June when they were reluctant to fix their mistake. I did query why I had 2 council bill accounts instead of just amending address change on other one but said human error and its just one of those black friday cases that happens once in a while but not to worry as I have paid the balance at least. I have already raised formal police complaint based on they actions of the Police Officers but also wondering if I have grounds for reporting a crime. The bailiff acted on his own authority and I was subject to intimidation by police and in some case blackmail in that if I didn't pay what he wanted regardless of whether right or wrong I could face possible arrest. Also council state under no circumstances can an Order be revoked they can amend amount but it was still be enforceable. This should never of gotten to this stage in first place as they were told back in December, January and February that it was wrong and their notes on their system clarify my concerns but it was never actioned. Who is right and who is wrong in all of this? Is liability Order correct and still valid? Can I not have back Bailiff £310 Fee? Was it theft? What ground if any are there towards Council, Bailiffs etc for all of this situation? Note bank were no help and said can only do a chargeback(as some stated is option) once transaction is authorised and not still at pending and that may not constitute one, also fraud said no as I handed over my debit card regardless of circumstances. I have had to keep my little one off school today due to all this hassle, and the ordeal has left my partner physically sick with whole ordeal and situation and I cant drive and cant afford taxi fares and this took more pressing matter to resolve. Only thing been told so far is complain for maladministration on behalf of council and bailiffs action as for council to pick up on as they are their agents? What does this achieve in mean time?? I for one now have to try and sort out my p***ed off landlord who expected this today and who i cant tell exactly when will get rent! Feel like phoning police and reporting it as crime as to me in some instances i believe it is

When acting upon information you deem to know is incorrect, seen as in this instance those administering the error and rectifying the actual amount outstanding are his actual employers, not the local authority but Capita who administered the entire Council Tax System for my Council along with the entire Administration Side, you honestly believe that he was acting on credible information, i.e months old Enforcement Notice or basically going off his own judgement knowing what he was doing was not lawful and come next week no commission from charges. Either way, he was attended knowing or not knowing the current situation, can only presume in this case but highly likely he knew. Logical reasoning suggest when stating he was acting under instruction given on Friday 04/10/2014 he was actually more than likely acting upon information that prevented any further action in this instance with amount outstanding and felt need to take action himself, hence 7am on Saturday specifically telling me when I told him I will clear this with council, that wouldnt be the case as they are closed now until Monday!!! Lawful entry I do think not!

Can i just ask, why all the upheaval regarding common assault, that is what he used in order to have police presence, obliviously pretty much straight after realising i had more upto date copies of evidence relating to what he currently held as a now verified incorrect order We know the guy opened door and just walked in, i with no actual permittable force ensured he stayed in the confides of the street and my front garden and then shut the door on him. If my finger or said few fingers touched him then so be it shoot me, string me up and throw rocks at me, then how about we spend all day in town when those getting through shop doorways prefer to barge past and shove you out of the way with complete disregard to politeness or manners, wonder how many we can get done for it. You spend more time jabbering about common assault than anything, you on the other hand make me wish I had lamped him one, then we can continue this discussion without going round the houses going did i or did i not in that instance yes I punched him and assaulted him, whatever the case. It was one small thing or many small thing that led to it Any relation to say police presence and them threatening possibly arrest was because not relating to what happened before is that possibly they felt they may have been something actually classed as assault nd not the petty thing you keep blabbering on about. Fact of the matter, he executed what he knew and what I could prove was incorrect order, he refused tried to take what was not actually legally mine, then tried to further take what legally and lawfully he wasn't allowed to take, in mean time, I am told by police presence not to get in his way and prevent him undertaking what they state are his sworn duty or I will be in breach of peace and possibly something little more severe. So all in all who cares if he yells common assault, never materialised, police brought bailiff into house from street, explained they were here to let him perform his duties and to prevent prevention, he tried to car car knowing not mine and bill of sale with actual owner not me, tried to take items solely belonging to my work and some that belong to those I work for. Police then leave no option but if I don't let him take either or, then I have to pay full amount he says I owe regardless of whether wrong as that is solely between me and the council as they let him go about his duly appointed business based on his non existent paperwork he shouldnt, couldnt, wouldnt show me and if I prevented him I would be done under breach of the Peace and arrested. Obviously what would that achieve leaving my kids unattended a bailiff in my house and police taking me away!!!!

Yeah gathered with anything relating to Freemans is a load of bull and to stay clear, seems to have stemed from others thinking they can go back what seem centuries. So hard deciphering what is true or manipulated. Though issue with Police i have read on websites with data stating updated within last couple of months so hoping that this info is correct in what they have written. Though to me it should always be backed up with some Rules and Regulations to which you can refer and try to put into simple plain english, though trawling around the internet a lot give statements about this, that and the other, but for me they dont back it up with anything set in concrete with either some Section, Part or Regulation to use hence I don't know if true or not. The only thing I do know is that if a published case in the past relates in more certain terms to my circumstances then the details held within that case can be used as my own evidence to uphold any thing I formally do from this point onwards. Though the link I posted up with regards to Bailiffs and Police Relationship 2 posts above is pretty much nigh on exactly what occurred today so for me, is it true what is written and the information and instruction contained exactly the processes to follow? As far as I can see my main approach is maladministration with complaints needing to be submitted to CE of Local Authority, Local MP and Managing Director of the Bailiff Company, with view to complaint being made to those that govern bailiffs regards his conduct and stating he will take items he knows he is not lawfully allowed to take. The approach on this matter is what i cant fathom and whether I have to refer to any rules and Regs etc. As far as Liability Order, with being in receipt of the now revised new Council tax Bill for 2013-2014 with all info corrected as previously requested that they have basically shown they made a mistake but as far as the Internet states I cannot get a Liability Order revoked, its not simple even if incorrect. Obviously if I cant ever get Liability Order revoked then how do I ever claim back and get back any payment made, especially with regards to the amount of £310 paid in fees for a bill that would never of gotten to this stage if 8 months ago they amended based on the info I submitted

If someone would like to helpshed some light on matters in question, is this information contained in this link actually bonafide truth with any legal standing or manipulated information [removed]

I understand what you are referring to with regards this Freeman rubbish, hence not knowing what true or just bull. Though with regards to Local Authority, this hasn't been in their hands for some time. The local Authority haven't been dealing with this as such, the whole of our council with regards Council tax is Capita I was told and is managed via them, the excuse of him having incorrect info cant possibly be accurate as the firm managing the Council's C Tax Debt is the same company employing its own Bailiffs to enforce. Though saying that I have proof that i had no option to pay the incorrect amount as told if I didn't a car not belonging to me will be towed and I cant prevent it or they will remove all my business assets, both of which are not allowed by law. The Police told me I either let him take car or my Work Gear or I pay in full there were my only options. Which ever option I chose I had to take the matter up with those when I could, i.e local authority and council visit in person on Monday morning. To me duress means such as that. If police weren't there and hadn't of let him in and then told me the only 3 options I had, 2 of which were not lawful I wouldnt have been forced to pay there an then for a debt that i am not currently applicable for without risk of being arrested, as that action would of occurred if they had happened to set foot in my office, some items in there do not belong to me, they are owned by those whom I work for on contract basis regardless of receipts they would of seized goods they are not entitled to. As per Police "They are legally allowed to take whatever they want and we are here to prevent you from preventing them following out their duties"

Also those blurting out Common assault please remember, the police will 99% side that of the bailiff due to civil matters, so with presence of a Uniformed Police Officer present at execution this will only increase the probability that the Order is followed through on a positive note for the bailiff. It was a clear tactic exaggerated as such and used in order to coerce those with extreme authority i.e the Police to facilitate the issue to the bailiffs advantage, possibly unknown to police who look to resolve matters as always peacefully do not see that they are used a means to aid those that they may undertaking actions that at time are not as lawful as made out.

I found this one CrappoMan presume this is instance to go ahead with regards the chargeback at my Bank Bailiffs-Pay-and-Reclaim

There are these not that would know what to do with them, everything and everyone I have dealt with upto know has not bothered. A bailiff may not encourage a third party to allow the bailiff access to a property (i.e. Workmen inside a house or a police officer), access by this means renders everything that follows invalid A debtor can lawfully use reasonable force in removing a bailiff without a levy that has refused to leave, the bailiff resisting is the person guilty of a breach of the peace, Green v Bartram [1830] 4 C&P 308. If police are present, the bailiff is the person that police should arrest If a police officer arrests a debtor after throwing a bailiff off the premises who had refused a request to leave, the officer is guilty of false arrest because no offence was committed and the bailiff was there illegally: Green v Bartram

I know exactly where you are coming from, even told police it boils down to blackmail on their part aswell, either do as we say or you will be punished either way, and that he even said we cant go until this matter is resolved in full, officer even said if we needed and hour or so to ring round numerous friends, family, relatives to gets loads of small amounts together they would wait around here with him until we got it all. Obviously when you show copper your 1 day old evidence they dont want to see it as its civil matter, they didn't even want his, just clearly took his word for it, i don't even know what he had. Though regards chargeback just read some excerpts on some webpages and they have some spiel to write and state in order to be effective it needs to be done in writing rather than trying to get anywhere with some call centre agent on the phone. There is also loads of stuff on web about police not actually being allowed to let them in, help facilitate in their wrong doings etc. A lot of it wordly professionally but end of day you dont know what is just hear say worded to sound like it legitimate and bonafide and whats not. All I know is i don't owe it, never did, tried hardest to fix but very reluctant to do so so if bank say no what options do I have, obviously nothing that will be turned around in say week or so. They refused to fix instead chased knowing there info was wrong so what chance do i have of getting refund back Even police said if it wrongs of course they will refund you the difference!!

acting lawfully as an Enforcement Agent but when handed correspondence direct from his Agents (local Authority) addressed to me dated the 30/09/2014 a month and half after (12th August Enforcement Notice) stating what I actually owe, it is lawful to pursue knowing what info you have isnt the case anymore, is it lawful to blatantly try and remove by force an item of property actually not legally anything to do with me, having someone try and work out how to tow out car, all the time knowing that actually he has info contrary to the belief that what we hold is no longer correct and that we cant get him to confirm as there is no one to talk to, even said you cant sort with council as its saturday and they are closed. will we do everything we can now before we cant actually do anything and miss out of this extra few hundred quid we should not be getting. What would be the case when I personally call in Council Offices on Monday, explain situation and they say no one has rescinded the order that your account in question and order is still on hold due to only just actioning discrepancies and errors, yes account is still on hold and that these then acted on the own accord, how does that help me going forward, is the resolution instant, i think not. Lawful is one, unlawfully executing something that you may know is no longer correct but doing so anywhere is not justified.

no its okay, i knew you werent saying anything nastily. I do see what you are saying just way I wrote it and obviously what happened, how I wrote it and how it is reread obviously different picture forms, you weren't there you picture based on what I have written. But in a fairness, I have been since December to now trying to sort this, and never actually gotten anywhere. I once got told by someone on phone presuming it was council, not realising it was actual employed staff from Capita on the line when it regards Council Tax Debt (only just fond that one out as), she asked what the problem was and why i was fuming and kicking off and told her that refused to pay a month worth and some of council tax on property I never lived, she asked how much told her and said is that all just pay it, thought you were talking bout sumit like 6 months worth or sumit, but all this over that, at least could understand if you owed loads and that. Exact words of what sounded like a 14 year school kid. obviously minded the childish comments but already paying council tax in the property actually lived at at the time for the correct period.

it wasn't pushing as such just way I typed it. Obviously harder to write a scene than it is to verbally repeat it, hence why copper said nothing really in what i did. Just my context and somehow not clear use of the correct wording. He didn't make it down the hall i was heading off down hall and he then opened my front door and just started to help himself walk in I went back down hallway and proceeded to prevent him moving anymore directing him back out of the door so I could shut the door. We were also lucky in that our eldest dog was downstairs in Kitchen or he would of gone out a lot quicker, not that he would of bitten him but his bark and attitude is definitely not a reflect of his fluffy exterior Look at this way, I was in local Tesco Express other day and there was altercation with manager and someone previously banned for shoplifting, he was trying to get in the store and manager was preventing him getting past sending him back out through the entrance, obviously in this case automatic doors really aren't the best as its not like you can just close them, but was it common assault no. If it had manual door would he have closed it behind him once out of shop, yes most definitely. Did he beat the c**p out of him, no. Asked him to leave, had no right being there.