supermonkeys
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many thanks for your suggestion, they accepted that & I have now paid the reduced fine. I also contacted the leisure company we had visited when the PCN was issued to advise them what had happened so they can take steps to avoid similar happening to other customers. They have generously offered some free tickers/vouchers.
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[ATTACH=CONFIG]51968[/ATTACH]I've now received the TRO, I think it does show the parking as on street, but would be grateful of confirmation! Thanks again
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Thanks. I've requested the TRO, but am not hopeful. I now have contact info for the person responsible for councils car parks in MK and have been discussing by email with her. It is a more pleasant experience trying to reason with an actual person, but still unsuccessful. It's a shame I'm so stubborn as I seem to have no chance but just don't want to stop now.
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Thanks, I will do this. However, on the central milton keynes parking map, they show a car parking which is specifically labelled as "off-street", which makes me thing the others are all considered "on-street" https://www.milton-keynes.gov.uk/assets/attach/16110/CMK%20PARKING%20MAP%20(November%202013).pdf
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Hi again, I've now had a response, unfortunately a notice of rejection of representations. It states: I always thought On-Street parking had to be on the road itself as the name suggests? Thanks
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thanks - thats much better. I think I'll just post, as I doubt they'll accept an email. They did say in previous letter "you must wait until the Registered Keeper of the vehicle receives a Notice to Owner before writing in to make further representations." I might follow up with an email to confirm, worried I might get a bit grumpy over the phone!
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Thanks... I hope so! Is it normal that there's no way to submit representations online? I'll have to get the wife to write as she has better handwriting! How does this sound? I am writing to appeal this PCN on the grounds that: 1. The alleged contravention did not occur as contravention code 30 relates to pay & display on street bays where as the vehicle was parked in a car park. (If the CEO felt that a contravention had occurred because of overstaying in the car park, they would have used code 82). Not sure whether to use the bit in brackets...
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Thanks, so basically explain that Code 30 refers to a bay on a street & I was parked in a car park (obviously will re-word & add waffle as required)
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Thanks, the NTO has now arrived. It has two small black & white photos of the car in a space. One is close up showing there is no ticket & the other is supposed to show the coloured line in front of the space, but since it is printed in black & white I can't tell whether this confirms I was parked in a space with a time restriction (I didn't think I was). There doesn't seem to be a way to view these photos online to check. It lists the various "grounds for representations". If the photos had clearly shown the car was parked ok, I'd tick "the alleged contravention did not occur". Does the wrong code being used mean I tick "proceduarl impropriety" or "order which is alleged to have been contravened is invalid"? From earlier messages, I'm assuming it's not worth mentioning the reasons from my original appeal?
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Thanks - is it best to await the NTO and appeal that? They've said they will read, but won't respond any further emails.
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[ATTACH=CONFIG]51015[/ATTACH] Thanks, This is what I noted on my appeal: I've tried to do a bit of research into the Code 30 thing & havn't found much. I can't find a list on Milton Keynes Councel website & what I have found on other authorities websites makes no mention of bays/car parks etc. I've found the attached from CEO handbook, it shows a bay on a street, but doesn't specifically state that this can only apply in this situation.
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sorry, i didn't notice this had gotten to two pages so have only just seen the replies above. I will edit this post shortly with responses to each one:.... The rejection dated 28/04/14 states: So I should have been able to pay the reduced fee on 12/05/14. Sorry, I misread your post & checked the wrong letter. But I have explained the non-compliance thing: It's ridiculous that I have to pay anything, but if I stand no chance of getting the PCN cancelled, I may as well pay the £25 instead of the £50! Thanks - this was a bay in large car park. So are we saying that they have used the wrong code? Done as noted above. I'm not convinced the space I was parked in had the restriction. But how would I prove that?
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still no nto, is that normal?
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The car was parked in a car park. So this indicates to me that I could just pay the £25 fee, but the online payment doesn't allow me to do so!? below is a link to the mk parking map. They are saying that I was parked in the purple dotted area in the bottom right corner (next to the black & red striped area). The purple area is free for 3 hours only whereas the black & red is pay & display. It was a bank holiday & so the black & red were free, but the restriction still applied to the purple. https://www.milton-keynes.gov.uk/assets/attach/16110/CMK%20PARKING%20MAP%20(November%202013).pdf
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The PCN states the 50% fee applies if paid with 14 days but that if we challenge the PCN, and the challenge is rejected, the council will extend the period in which the reduced. I would assume this is extended to 14 days from the date of their rejection, which would be today. Their website is showing the full £50 is to be paid.
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thanks, post 8 states what is wrong with the pcn & the pcn itself is attached to post 13. thanks
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so do i have much chance of being successful? Do they have to prove that I was in a time restricted space? If not, since the NTO hasn't arrived, can I still pay the reduced fine? Thanks.
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Managed to do it now.... [ATTACH]50810[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]50809[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]50810[/ATTACH]
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i forgot to say as well that I did receive an email response to my second appeal. It says that it has been reviewed along with previous correspondance, but they have nothing further to add. they go on to say they will not respond to any further commication (other than response to the NtO). I am livid, but getting worried that now I'll have to pay the full fine as they are not budging.
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i can't upload or link as not enough posts! the quoted bit above notes what i think is wrong with the PCN. I got the wording from other threads on here.
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Thanks for the replies, sorry havn't logged in for a while. I've uploaded the PCN to imgur, but not allowed to upload here or post links!
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Ok, but by doing this, I'm losing the chance to pay the reduced fine? And could I not then make a formal complaint that I did not wish to await the NTO, but was advised to do so? I'm not convinced I was parked in a bay with a time restriction - I'd like to see evidence from them that this was definately the case. Surely they can't uphold the PCN if there is no evidence of a contravention? I was trying to show that they have a duty to be reasonable & use discretion.... the PCN is unreasonable! Because the appeals process & other information relating to PCN T&Cs etc etc are supposed to be available at that address. Since they are not, I am surely disadvantaged... This is the main bit of advice I found on this forum... The PCN fails to comply with regulation 3(2)(b) contained within Statutory Instrument 2007/3482 and it is therefore my belief that the PCN is not lawful (I then go into more detail)
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Thanks - a very quick reply! Yes, the first appeal was by email - I got the response by email too (PDF letter attached). I then responded to this again by email. So I think you are saying that if they go by the formal procedures, they could ignore this second appeal? I am hoping that I will get a response to it & that I the discounted time will be extended. The reason for the short appeal in the first place was basically to be nice - I thought a politely worded short & sweet appeal might work better than a long winded wordy one that might wind them up!
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Hi All, First post here, although I have browsed for advice in the past. I received a PCN on a bank holiday when car park had temporary signs up stating that parking was free due to it being a bank holiday. My appeal was brief, pointing this out & asking for it be cancelled. This was rejected as the state the vehicle was in a time restricted bay. I have replied the same day with a much more in depth appeal with a number of points (most of which I found on these forums). The question is will they review this second appeal or will they ignore it? I feel very strongly that the PCN is unfair & that my second appeal has several valid points, however I'm getting nervous that if it's rejected I'll no longer be able to pay the reduced fee. My response included the following: Requested evidence the vehicle was parked in a time restricted bay Requested evidence that signs clearly stated that such bays were not included on the free bank holiday parking. Noted that authorities are recommended to use discretion. That the PCN doesn't comply with regulations That the PCN refers to policy and appears at an out of date web address. Thanks
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