For the first time in my career I've been graced with having a manager (operations manager) who is actually not an egotistical *****, he actually does a pretty good job to boot..... BUT, one of his subordinate managers is trying to replace him, he just doesn't realise it yet. My manager is over everything, directly runs the dept I work in, the other manager runs another small dept for him. Other manager on the surface seems like a nice chap, really friendly with everyone, very loud and chatty, always walking around making it look as though he's well liked, but he's also making silly/petty complaints about my colleagues, my manager has to act or it'll look like he's not doing his job, which results in my manager looking like the bad guy, many of us know where these complaints really come from, but because this other manager seems so popular, nobody ever speaks out. The owner of the company sees the department as being out of control, because the mud might have no substance, but throw enough of it and it sticks, the owner doesn't trust any of us because of all the complaints, and so we wouldn't be believed if we did say anything. I don't know if there's anything I can do, it's driving me nuts seeing this guy swanning about pretending to be this great guy, whilst stabbing us all in the back to make our manager look bad. He really is toxic and calculating, for someone so chatty, nobody knows anything about him, he's got zero social media presence, not even Linkedin, nobody even knows what town he lives in, where he went to school, where he used to work, he hides everything, he's the most closed open book you'll ever meet. I know it's beyond my control, i'm just curious as to where this normally ends up.........

Thanks all, car is now sorn, cannot tax for 5 working days, got an official email from the insurer today confirming the claim status, so I can get insurance sorted now with something official as backup, the broker needs to amend their records or ill be going elsewhere.

I know this TBH, but I also know what the DVLA are like once they issue a fine, completely automated system, refuse to drop it, ends up in court with them losing. I know 3 people who've been issued fines when SORN, with the vehicle on a private driveway parked facing the road, the ANPR pings it and a fine is issued automatically, the person driving doesn't actually do anything bar drive the van........ Or at least it was like this maybe 5-10 years ago.

Do they still send these vans out to look for newly SORNed vehicles? Due to an insurance mess up, i've got to take my car off the road, I have a driveway, but i've heard of people getting DVLA fines due to the reg being picked up on the ANPR vans, vehicle on my own property is there anything wrong with sticking gaffa tape over half the plate to stop the ANPR pinging it? I'm assuming not as it's fully on private property........

Ok, it's all gone tits up....... From tomorrow I have no insurance, car is being taken off the road, been told it'll take 5 days to update the claims record. SO now I have to SORN my car, totally screwed up situation.

My experience is that the claims team are really quite helpful, but the sales/renewals people are reluctant to budge, so I wonder if it's a case of they only give a damn about meeting some sort of sales targets. They probably think they have me by the balls, think I can't go anywhere else, but if they blank me i'll cancel the insurance, take the car off the road and then threaten to charge them for transport costs, as well as contacting the ombudsman if they don't fix the issue. I wonder how I go about getting my record changed to reflect the truth of the claim........ Because that's the real issue stopping me shopping around.

Ok, I contacted them (which was difficult in itself), they confirm it's a no fault claim, BUT it seems to be on the national database as being my fault, which means wherever I go i'm going to either get screwed OR declined........ I'm not sure what I can do, i've got a few days only, probably going to have to take my car off the road until it can be resolved.

Bottom line up front Have gone to renew insurance and told i have a fault claim on my policy from last year, I had an accident last year, the other driver was at fault, I had dashcam footage, there were multiple witnesses, he was prosecuted by the Police, but somehow the insurance company have decided it was my fault and now my premium is more than double at £700, for a car I barely use now having moved house. The other driver tried to claim injuries from my insurance, solicitors got involved, I had interviews with them and then once the Police made their decision I was told it was basically all over. My renewal is due in a few days, I think they'll drag their heels and try to bully me, I won't be bullied, I may end up cancelling the insurance altogether and walking/cycling instead. What options do I have with this situation? I'm really angry as this is their f**kup and I have to pay for it.

Actually your wrong, we're people, not machines, to err is human and any business that does not account for possible mistakes, nay actually encourages mistakes, is utterly foolish. And sexist what? Are you feeling ok? would you like a safe space?

It was more of an open ended post, to get responses on the general situation. There are personal mitigating factors (at that time), such as recent involvement in a serious car accident and lack of sleep due to a newborn baby (2 weeks old at the time), which they know about and makes what they're doing even more of a [removed] shot below the belt. The system failures which I raised, those that preceded the mistake, are issues that (it turns out) many people knew about but have been too worried to mentioned for sake of retribution. I believe that a robust "system" should easily mitigate against people being sick (especially considering their draconian sick pay policy), people being tired and momentary lapses of concentration. I don't think that this is merely about a mistake, I think it's more of a "shut up and stop rocking the boat", because of the issues I raised.

And what if your IT systems go down, or the internet connection, or the mail server? I'd be very surprised if this request was as urgent as you've been told, there has to be some leeway. Doesn't mean you won't get into trouble, it depends on whether your company is retarded enough to think that making examples of people helps to motivate staff.

Sorry, that's not a fix, it's a sticking plaster. I'm not kidding myself, I understand it's hard for most people to see this when they haven't work my sort of background, but systems should be robust enough to mitigate against mistakes happening, to the point where the only way to screw up is deliberately. When the same problem occurs again and again (even going back before I joined), you have to wonder why there is a reluctance to even consider fixing it. In both the automotive manufacturing sector and the defence sector, if you went back to a customer with "oh we found the person and punished them", they'd tear you a new ********, starting with "ok, how do you plan on making sure nobody does this again?" and your response is "post-it notes", you'd lose a million £ contract.

Here's the deal... I made a mistake, not denying it at all. First actual mistake i've made at this employer. It turns out this same mistake has been happening for years, I believe the root cause is their database/system, which takes no action to mitigate against such mistakes and actually in this particular case encourages mistakes. The root cause is defined as the non-human element that would have absolutely prevented the error if removed from the equation. So for example, if you were told to cross a narrow foot bridge and fell off because there was no hand rail, where does the fault lie?? hmmm? What's annoying is that there is no willingness to fix the problem, what's more annoying is that it's happened so many times with different people that you have to wonder why the bloody the problem (which it turns out has been complained about multiple times) has never been identified. As a former quality engineer I find this extremely frustrating....... The company has a pretty toxic blame culture, it's always "who" not "how" or "why", people try to cover up mistakes and push responsibility down onto someone else, every now and again someone gets sacrificed to the blame gods so that a certain person can appear as though they are doing their job. Some people even go so far as to establish an email chain before doing anything they're asked to do by this person, in the misguided belief that this protects them from blame, when in fact they're not the only people with access to said emails. My mistake was basically in forgetting a screw up had occurred when I got back into work on Monday, having had barely any sleep due to a constantly screaming 3 week old baby which has had to be put onto medication for severe reflux (i hate mentioning that, but it's relevant to explaining my tiredness). Should well designed, robust systems and processes fall over as soon as someone comes into work sick or tired? I think not. So here we are, facing a disciplinary for a minor mistake (which is being trumped up into something bigger), knowing full well that had they investigated previous mistakes properly and implemented corrective actions, it wouldn't have happened at all. The primary "complaint" is not the cost of the mistake, but the "personal embarrassment" caused, which i'm finding it very hard to not say "well suck it up snowflake, fix your sh*t and stop blaming people who fall into the cracks".

Why does every debate on nuclear "issues" always bring weapons and power generation into the same room? They're two entirely different things!!!!!! My option on power generation? Chernobyl is the worst nuclear disaster in human history, but the remaining 3 reactors were kept running for decades after the incident and the whole place is now a tourist destination. Guess what my opinion is.....

I don't work for them, they screwed me over last year, but i've moved on. This is a reference for his employment tribunal though, not a standard employment reference.

As the title says really, i've been asked if i'd provide a reference, which i'm willing to do as former employer really took advantage of this guy for several years and then sacked him the day after he finds out his wife was pregnant. He was a good guy, hard working, gave it 110%, but used to get a lot of hassle/blame he did not deserve, mostly because of his age and inexperience in dealing with work politics.. I'm wondering what sort of reference is this, obviously it can't be personal, but how much can I say about the way I feel he was treated?

Ok, unfortunately this makes sense now................. It's amazing how one comment can make everything else fall into place. Taken on to sort out production issues and to deal with 2 years backlog of customer returns, with no intention of keeping me beyond 2 years. There was one particular area, run by a guy I ended up working closely with and after i'd helped him get that running properly I was asked if I wanted to do that guys job (meaning he would be kicked out) and I'm not the sort of person who'd screw someone over like that. I think effectively that was the intention all the time, sort out the issues that nobody else has the experience to fix, replace that guy for 2 years and then most likely be kicked out anyway. It's pretty awful to think it, but everything that's happened, even some of the weird stuff that didn't add up before I accepted the job (like never getting a formal job offer in writing), all now makes much more sense. Now I think about it only 3 people have been there longer than 2 years, I can't believe I didn't see it!!!

Without going into too much detail (i'd written a wall of text). I've just been told I no longer have a job (after nearly a year), reason sited as not fitting the role, but told that i've "not specifically done anything wrong". It was a VERY broad ranging and high responsibility engineering role, non-stop work, but whenever I wasn't doing what one of 3 other people thought I should be doing, the back stabbing would start, meaning I could never actually do right. BUT I stayed on top of everything I needed to. This back stabbing has seen off several employees during my time there, people who I believe just needed the right support, who were badly supervised and expected to do jobs outside their level of experience or ability (and then punished for doing it wrong). The level of paranoia and baseless assumptions that has surrounded these people is just crazy, they were painted out to 200x worse than they really were. Every time anything went wrong, it had to be pinned on someone in the worst light possible. One person in particular would spend hours moaning about people to the boss and there is no way he could possibly have ignored it. This resulted in a lot of stress, one day everything is great, things are moving forward, the next day it's gone to sh1t because somebody is upset that you spent all day yesterday doing something they didn't deem important. Like building alignment jigs for product manufacture. At one point (6 months ago) one of these people raised the question as to what value I add to the company, vaguely suggested that my position was a waste of money and suggested I needed to fill in time sheets, but my job was so varied that most of what I did could not be quantified. I felt like since then that more and more unquantifiable additional work was loaded onto my plate and because the company measures performance in a very black and white way i've had a constant worry in the back of my mind. So i've "done nothing wrong", it "just isn't working". No examples of wrong doing could be given, it was just a "feeling". Apparently my technical knowledge was lacking, yet i'd done nothing wrong and yet i'd managed perfectly well. Some people were a bit snobby because I never went to Uni, but that doesn't mean I don't know my stuff and my background was there in black and white on my CV. Although I worked out very quickly that there was no chance of a long term career there (due to what i'd seen), this felt very sudden and I'm struggling to work out whether it's down to people making me look bad or whether they can't justify paying me (I know they struggle financially), or whether it's a combination of all that. I've taken the moral high ground as someone who has never felt the need to put others down to forward my own interests. I'm quite calm about all this, but in a few weeks time I fear it could turn to anger.............

Ok, writing is on the wall, it'll be a final warning tomorrow, followed by a new disciplinary for whatever they've made up since, they're still piling up new evidence, no matter how minor. I think they don't like it when you actually try to defend yourself.

Since 2008, there is some history with this guy, i've posted here before.

I've got some issues at work, for months now i've been experiencing problems with various other employees causing hassle for me, spreading lies, giving me the cold shoulder and encouraging others to do the same, as well as certain individuals sabotaging work and generally trying to make me and 3 others look like we're not doing our jobs. I'm not one to stand by and let someone do that to me or my colleagues, so I took a stand, I made some noise, nobody wanted to know, nobody wanted to upset the apple cart. On several occasions i've told my direct supervisor about how this is affecting me in a negative way and undoubtedly affecting my work too. The last time I spoke to my supervisor (on a Monday), the very same day my manager went digging into weeks/months worth of my work and picking out faults, resulting in a disciplinary action made up of dozens of small errors. He claims he found a single fault on that Monday, BUT instead of bringing this fault to my attention, having a quiet word and sorting it out, he let me make the same mistake again several times over the course of 3 days, before putting together a huge report and taking it straight into a disciplinary action. All the time knowing full well that I'd already made it clear that I was under a lot of stress. Then we get a pre-disciplinary where i'm told what to expect, i'm told to bring supporting evidence, I questioned that I can't get any evidence because i'm not allowed to access that area of the database, he explicitly tells me that "you know you can, we all know you can and you could if you wanted to". Disciplinary day, I get a whole load of stupid little issues thrown at me, I discount more than half of them with my evidence, but it's clear the whole thing is biased and that whatever I say wasn't going to make a difference. He then starts questioning me on how I got my evidence, the meeting ends and now i'm being investigated for misusing the database.......... This is utterly ridiculous, it's clearly a personal matter, he's mad that I was making noise and standing up for myself, etc. He knows i've been under a lot of stress and he's wasted company time and resources by turning this into a witch hunt when he could have resolved it on day one. It's really p!ssing me off, this guy was investigated for bullying another colleague before he was promoted years ago, i'm sure everyone can see what he's doing, HR, his own manager, etc. I don't know how these people can sleep at night and I don't understand how they can think someone like that is good for the business! So now im in a situation where I know he's watching every move, I can afford to make a mistake, but i'm so stressed by all this that I can barely think straight and it's taking me nearly twice as long to do anything!

Doesn't matter what the "policy" is, it's simply going to be a popularity contest.

Any CCTV won't pick up that level of detail and probably got erased anyway. Usernames and creation times mean nothing, as I said these can be spoofed VERY easily. The IT dept will undoubtedly consist of graduates, who quite frankly memorised a few text books and don't really know a fat lot about the darkside of IT.

Sounds to me like a "they're getting over confident, lets make an example of this person and put them back in their place". It's usually because your making a "superior" feel insecure. I've been in these sorts of situations..... Example - I was accused of being consistently late, but they didn't know i'd set up my work PC to create a time log every time I turned it on, I produced this log at the disciplinary hearing, i'd been late (by no more than 6 minutes) precisely 3 times in 4 years. Result? I still got a verbal warning on record and 2 months later my PC was taken away under the pretence that I no longer needed my own personal PC. I'm the sort of person that people think they can mess with, they mistake my quiet nature for stupidity, but when they do they find I bite REALLY hard. They think they're winning, they think they can make stuff stick, but all they're really doing is digging a great big hole for themselves

I've got a similar issue........ I'm a multi skilled engineer. 5 years ago I was travelling Europe for a major electronics manufacturer, carrying out component testing and quality related tasks. Present day the company I now work for is mainly office/admin based, they bundle in technical/lab work with stores related tasks.. The problem is they see anything technical as "dirty" work, so one minute i'm examining something with an electron microscope under lab conditions, the next i'm moving filing cabinets, cleaning floors or lifting pallets off trucks, whilst lesser skilled people look down at me whilst drinking their coffee. I'm not even trusted to be alone for more than 5 minutes under the assumption i'll just do nothing or muck about on the internet. It's slightly infuriating, that all these very stupid people talk to me as though i'm a lesser human being. They don't understand what I do/know, so they down play it as something simple for simple people. No surprise then, that i'm filling my CV with all the relevant experience and looking for another job.