Alicia86
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Yes Sweep1, I quite agree. Both the Charities Commission and HMRC are clear about the Trustees' liabilities. The frustration is that the HCEO's I've spoken to won't go near the trustees' because they are not named on the order. The Trustees in place at the time of my redundancy are named on the Charity Commision's website, the ET Order names the Charity, but nobody feels able to join the dots. It seems, were I to take this course of action, it would be for me to sue each of the Trustees individually, and that quickly becomes expensive. Remembering too that the order is only for around £8000. I wish the ET judge at the time had gone a step further and named the trustees responsible on the order. It would have made enforcement easy. As it is, it's left a loophole for the Trustees to exploit.
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Thanks for your help Lookinforinfo. There are times of the year when I would expect the employer's account to have sufficient funds to settle the order. I don't know anything about the Mareva Injunction and didn't find it easy to research on the internet. Is there a reason one would use a Mareva Injunction over a Third Party Debt Order? I'm considering timing a Third Party Debt Order to coincide with when the accounts will have the funds. I have the account numbers and sort codes for two accounts. I am not on benefits so I do need to choose an affordable way forward. I found the Third Party Debt Order costs £100, although not sure of any hidden costs. I don't know the cost of a Mareva Injunction.
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Those are fantastically useful leaflets you mentioned ploddertom. Thank you for pointing them out to me.
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I'm still keen to hear from others on my possible options, I'm very grateful to the lovely people of this forum that share their knowledge. Thanks!
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Yes, thank you Ploddertom. With regards to the HCEO route... there are few material assets, the premises are rented and the charity name, rather than the trustees, are named on the order. So I'm not sure it has legs. However, a Third Party Debt Order via our local County Court is an option though not something I know much about, other than what I have read on the web. I'm not sure of the court fee's involved for this or if the order of £8000 is one a court would consider warrants this action.
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Thank you for your replies HCEO. I set out to really just get the judgment at an employment tribunal. So I'm lucky already to have negotiated the tribunal and succeeded. However, the appointment of their solicitor, which I certainly can’t afford to do, and the slippery bank accounts does have me feeling that I shouldn’t let this one go.
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Thank you for your replies HCEO. I set out to really just get the judgment at an employment tribunal. So I'm lucky already to have negotiated the tribunal and succeeded. However, the appointment of their solicitor, which I certainly can’t afford to do, and the slippery bank accounts does have me feeling that I shouldn’t let this one go.
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Is a viable route to apply for a Third Party Debt Order via our local County Court where the County Court Judgment was issued? Is this something a layman could do?
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Brief back story: In 2013, whilst on maternity leave, I raised concerns about how my line manager was treating me. Subsequently, my employer initiated a swift redundancy process, and within a month had made me redundant without notice and whilst still on maternity leave. The employer retained my maternity cover worker. I represented myself at an employment tribunal in Jan 2014; an Employment Judge judged that I was unfairly dismissed and treated unfavourably by my employer to section 18 of the Equality Act 2010. The employer was ordered to pay my notice pay, compensation for unfair dismissal and compensation for injury to feelings, amounting to around £8,000 in total. The establishment is named on the order rather than the names of trustees. The employers are a small registered charity, a playgroup, managed as an unincorporated trustee body. The members of the trustee body change frequently. They operate out of rented premises and they don’t have much by way of assets. At the tribunal the employer presented bank statements attempting to show that they have ‘no money’. However, the Judge noted that the statements showed money was being moved around between several accounts. The employer has engaged a solicitor who in short says the employer has no assets and no money and that the trustees are not financially liable for the debts. The solicitor has rejected a payment plan of £150 per month and a without prejudice settlement offer of £6,500. The solicitor has advised that they can only make payments of £50 per month. The employer has paid the notice pay one made one late payment of £50. A County Court Order has since been issued for the full award plus interest to date. I haven’t engaged a HCEO yet although I did enquire and they advised me that bank accounts were protected. Please could colleagues here advise me on the best approach in going forward? I’ve included as much relevant detail as I can here but please just ask if there is something that needs clarifying. Thank you for all your help.
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SweetLorraine, thank you also for your help. The respondents in this case were listed in the name of the charity, they were not listed individually.
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Thank you Lamma. I gathered from that, that the respondent (the charity in name) in my case is the legal entity to be held account, and specifically that includes each individual identified as a member of the managing committee (the trustees) on the date that I was made redundant.
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Thank you Lamma. The charity produced bank statements and crude balance sheets at the hearing to paint a picture of being in financial difficulties. However, the judge spotted that they had more than one bank account, one was paying the other and some or the items on the balance sheets were falsified. So from what I gather, the charity are trying to hide any moneys that they have, and hide bank accounts. Do you think I will need to investigate this before handing it over to the HCEO or is this something the HCEO looks into?
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Thank you Ploddertom. What questions would you put to HCEOs to help choose between them in this instance?
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Hello. I was an employee who was made redundant by my employer. I represented myself at an employment tribunal, who found in my favour on all counts. They judged that it had been unfair dismissal and sex discrimination and made an award of around £10,000 although I don’t expect any of it will be paid. At the start of the hearing my employer’s solicitor tried to wriggle, suggesting to the judge that they were not a legal entity. The business is run by a managing committee of volunteers (an unincorporated association) and is also a registered charity (registered with the charities commission). However, don’t let that draw sympathy, the hearing revealed how badly the charity was being managed and how the charitable funds were being wasted. The judge said that they are a registered charity and therefore a legal entity. So although they may wish to describe themselves as an unincorporated association, they did enter into employment contracts with me and other staff in the name of the charity and have assets in the name of the charity. Question So with the status of the respondent being a registered charity (claiming to be an unincorporated association), who should I address the high court enforcement order to? The managing committee will all be stepping down from their positions and running for cover. Should I put the name and address of the charity, or the present chair of the managing committee, or the then chair of the managing committee at the time of the redundancy, or the managing committee secretary who signed the paper work, or all the managing committee members by name? I’m not expecting to see any money paid to me but I don’t want to make it easy for them to wriggle of the hook and continue operating either. Thank you so much for taking a look at my thread. x
