Double parked cars can be reported to the council and they will be dealt with accordingly. I live on an estate which has 1 road in / out .We had problems with double parking at the entrance end of the road,and various cars were hi-lifted away at different times (under police supervision) as the double parking made it impossible for emergency vehicles to access our estate , and the refuse collection trucks etc too. .I was trapped in my road a few times ,not being able to get to work until the cars were removed. We have a yellow line system in place now so it doesn't happen anymore .Direct action can get taken and when double parking motorists relise their cars could be towed away they might think twice about it

As said before , most things are checked automatically (a.n.p.r. to name but one) .The cars reg plate is old fashioned too , the only real way to check a cars I.D. is the chassis # (assuming it's not a cut & shut) I think cars of the future will have an 'electronic fingerprint' which will be scanned like a.n.p.r. is and all of the duties (road tax / mot / insurance will show up as paid or not), but as this is all electronics based it's open to equipment failure or hacking and too much info is available . Paying road tax via fuel purchase duty has been done a for a long time abroad , 'pay as you go' -the more you drive the more you pay ,and the less you drive the less you pay - the fairest way?, most people pay for water / gas / electric that way .Payments via the internet is the prefered method for most things these days as it is electronically recorded, so pretty much all of us a going to be bludgeoned into using the web at some point in our lives , either directly or by getting someone else to push the buttons - thats progress I guess ?

The oldest is warden joke is :- Q -Why do they have yellow bands round their hats? A -To stop people parking on their heads

I totally agree , although this box junction has been here since at least 2008 (google image) and now in the last couple of weeks in gets CCTV which has basically made the whole area grid lock with the backlog of traffic as it impacts on the High Road and side roads .The answer is probably a traffic light system or mini roundabout here ,which is what they have done on the other side of the hill near this junction as it gives some sort of order rather than relying on motorists being courteous on their way home in rush hour

Looks like this box junction is going to be a cash cow for the council .I came past there last night and cars were bumper to bumper in the box

Cool , yes I follow that , cheers

Ah , got it now - didn't know about the 2 days after bit , thanks . So, together with the 'vague locus' - 28 days ammo , and the Sheikh V's Newham Patas case I should have a good shot at it. .Thanks again , much appreciated

Hi G&M , .I'm having a bit of a blonde moment here . The 28 days notice - is that 28 days from 3/12/13 (the alleged contravention date as in my case) or 9/12/13 which is the date of the notice, as it says Notice was served twice in the payment statement ,and then just states 'if you don't pay or challenge before the end of the 28 day period' at the end of the statement.Which is the 'wrong' part? Just a thought .What is the impact to an appeal of using the the 'vagues locus' arguement against appealing the contravention with a (as in my case) clear lane arguement? .Would appealing acknowledge there was a contravention ?,as you are discussing the box junction and why you should not be charged with the alleged offence ,when you are also arguing that you don't know the location they are talking about as it is vague? .Does one cancel out the other in the legal technicalities argument?

Just been up to view the footage after being told I could when I phoned up this morning , only to be told in the building that I needed an appointment as the footage needs to be retrieved as it is a new camera ! .I have an extention granted for my appeal time . Appointment is 3rd Jan , so I'll update then when I've viewed it . I would still welcome any views on the important 'do not ignore this notice' section - is the wording legal (see scan in a previous post)

How does the 14 / 28 days wording on the pcn look to you guys , is it correct? / legal? as I know some are illegal in there wording Just found out that the CCTV footage can be viewed at a 'walk-in centre' .This info is not offered on the pcn ,it just states that you should write in to book an appointment , so they have just wasted a week of my time as I posted off a letter to them a week ago and have been waiting for them to contact me with an appointment !! .I'm going to view the footage later today .

Hi SS . Yes , I have only been honest here , It has become a nightmare junction recently after the addition of CCTV .This has been a box junction since at least 2008 , and now in 2013 they intro. CCTV.on it . I haven't seen any signs in the High Road warning motorists of the placing of cameras here either, other than one A4 sized laminated sign zip tied to a post in Chadwell Heath Lane (the side road with the van coming out of it in pic ) and facing the footpath, which I read when I walked down there on Saturday to have a look (update today wednesday 18th -the A4 sign has gone , so no warning signs at all). The case of Sheikh V's Newham as suggested by G&M is a similar case to mine ,as, he was stopped in traffic when the lane to left of him was clear , but he chose to stay put in his lane and still won his appeal. I moved to the clear lane to keep the traffic flow moving .I need to view the CCTV to see how long I was actually stationary (5 seconds or more?) and also if it recorded my point of entry into the box .The adjudicators seem to be judging cases on what they think you were thinking of doing of at the time (minority report springs to mind). The Gillingham case concluded that the appeal should be based on what he did ,not what he might have done

Ok , sounds good ,thanks.

Thanks G&M , I thought the Sheikh V's Newham might work , although the adjudicators in the Patas rulings you linked me to don't neccecarily agree with the appeal being upheld but I will use it anyway .I also thought about the 'Gillingham' case where the adjudicators said he had stopped and although there was a clear exit , Mr G didn't take it ,so it (the clear exit) is irrelevent . My point is if he had taken the exit (as I did in my case) would it have been relevent to the appeal that he lost? . Has anybody tried the 'vague location ' angle? Did you get a chance to read the pcn scan I posted up?

Hi SS , that is me in the box ,you can see the right turn lane next to me , that is the lane I used to exit the box, the van has just entered the box from the side road. This is the problem with the box , the traffic in the side road (where the van is ) enters the high road , and takes up any available spaces , thus preventing the high road traffic from moving foreward. After the shot was taken I moved over to the right turn lane and exited , a full video will show the events , a still photo doesn't show much at all.

Here it is :-

I did post up a scan but it looked too small so I tried to edit it - I'll go back to it soon

Hi SS , here is the scan [ATTACH=CONFIG]48233[/ATTACH]

Hi Sailor Sam , I did type out the exact wording of the pcn in my first post , here it is again:- The Penalty Charge of £130 is now payable and must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date this Notice was served . If it is paid before the end of 14 days beginning with the date this Notice was served, the amount payable is reduced to £65 . Payment should be made to L.B.of Redbridge (see below for further details) . OR ,if you believe you have good reason not to pay the penalty charge ,you should right to us explaining why (see Representations section overleaf). Although there are specific legal grounds for making representations , we will consider excercising our discretion and may cancel the Penalty Charge Notice if there are suitable mitigating circumstances (i.e. if we believe that there is a good enought reason). Please make sure the Penalty Charge Notice number is written on all correspondence. If the penalty charge is not paid or challenged before the end of the 28 day period , an increased charge of £195 may be payable . We may then send you a Charge Certificate seeking payment of this increased amount . this is typed word for word as printed on the pcn

Hi , thanks for the info. I need to see the CCTV footage in full to get the facts / times etc .I have requested an appointment to view it . I'll update once I've seen it .Thanks for your help .I'll get back to you soon. BTW , any views on the wording of the PCN ?

I moved foreward , realised there was a clear exit to my right (the right turn lane) stopped , and backed up then moved over to the right turn lane In the key Patas cases there is the case of Mr Gillingham where the findings contain this :- " That Mr Gillingham might have made an alternative choice of exit is irrelevant, since he did not take it. The law must judge the actual facts of the case: i.e. what the driver did – not what he might have done. " Does this mean if he had taken the alternative clear exit , it would have been relevant to the appeal? I took a clear exit - that's what I did, not what I might have done - relevant?

I think you might be viewing the juction from the opposite way . The traffic lights are in the opposite direction to my route ,the box is at the junction of Chadwell Heath Lane and the High Road . I was travelling away from the lights towards Romford. The exit route I took was the the right turn (marked in the road immediately after the end of the box junction) . This was clear all of the time - no stationary traffic (as I remember - I need to see the CCTV footage as I can't be sure of the specific events as I entered the box) The 'still' photo even shows no traffic in the right turn lane which was my actual exit route . Is it deemed an offence if you stop in a box when there is a clear exit that you take? . From what I have read the offence occurs if you enter the box with no clear exit at that time and you have to stop ?

Interesting to read about the findings of Sheikh V's Newham . Would the wording of the pcn be correct in my case? .I read 2 comparisons on here earlier and I can't work out if mine is worded correctly or not?

Hi Sailor Sam & green_and-mean , thanks for the replies . @Sailor Sam ., there is a single lane approaching the box , the box only covers the route I was heading in (a half box?) as you exit the box the road splits into 2 lanes , a straight ahead on the left and a right turn (google maps will show it in full from the road names I gave in my post ,but I can't add a link) . From memory (I need to see the CCTV footage to refresh me and see all of the events in full) I moved straight ahead , there was no traffic immediately in front of me as I entered , t he traffic stopped in the left / straight ahead lane , I stopped and move over to the clear right turn lane , so my eventual and actual exit was clear all of the time , bearing in mind that the box junction is not divided between the straight ahead and right turn until you exit it , the straight ahead and right turn arrows printed immediately after the yellow markings . I wasn't forced to stop as there was a clear exit lane available

Hi everyone ,new member here . I received a pcn 31 for 'entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited' . This box junction a situated at the junction of Chadwell Heath Lane and the High Road A118 (please see google maps to view the junction) .I was travelling in the Ilford to Romford direction . I have applied to view the CCTV footage of the alledged contravention in full to go over a few points . I entered the box in the lane to travel to Romford , the traffic stopped in front of me , very slow moving traffic . the way this trafiic flow works (or not !!) at peak times is, as a space becomes clear ahead of the box juction , vehicles turn left out of Chadwell Heath Lane, head towards Romford and take up the 'space' making the Ilford to Romford flow completely stop , I moved foreward ,I stopped for a short period as I couldn't move foreward, but I moved over and I then exited via the clear (at all times during this time) right turn lane , which is alongside the straight ahead lane , so my 'exit route' was clear all of the time . I entered the box , and left via a clear at all times exit lane ,thus not 'prohibited' as the alledged contravention states , am I right?, is there a penalty for amount of time you spend in a box when your exit route is clear? can they fine me for what they think I might do, or is there no contravention as I exited via a clear route The 'still' photo sent to me shows the right hand (my exit) lane next to me to as clear too . I was reading a Patas case no. MV0071NE02 Sheikh V's L.B. of Newham which shows a very similar situation to mine where he was stopped in a lane by traffic but the lane along side of him was clear with traffic passing through , and although Mr. Sheikh didn't use the clear route and stayed where he was , the appeal was upheld . Also I'm not clear on the wording on the notice regarding the 14-28 day period and whether it is correct or not .I'll type the actual wording for you to me advise on if you will:- The Penalty Charge of £130 is now payable and must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date this Notice was served . If it is paid before the end of 14 days beginning with the date this Notice was served, the amount payable is reduced to £65 . Payment should be made to L.B.of Redbridge (see below for further details) . OR ,if you believe you have good reason not to pay the penalty charge ,you should right to us explaining why (see Representations section overleaf). Although there are specific legal grounds for making representations , we will consider excercising our discretion and may cancel the Penalty Charge Notice if there are suitable mitigating circumstances (i.e. if we believe that there is a good enought reason). Please make sure the Penalty Charge Notice number is written on all correspondence. If the penalty charge is not paid or challenged before the end of the 28 day period , an increased charge of £195 may be payable . We may then send you a Charge Certificate seeking payment of this increased amount . I'm not a legal bod and from what I have read there seems to be different wordings used by different authorities