So will be in court tomorrow. Any final words of advice would be much appreciated

Thanks for that. The only problem with this is that I don't think that a judge will not accept that the prescribed terms are not present because Lowell have provided them. It's the last page of the Consumer Credit Agreement that I uploaded and clearly shows the terms that were in force at the time the agreement was taken out. For something to be a 'True Copy' it does not need to be the "original" document as long as the documents provided go to make up what "would have been" the original document and in this case Lowell have done that. Now, as to whether "we" think that is right is immaterial because it's what the judge thinks that counts and so far, given the documents provided by Lowell and the fact that I am not disputing that I do owe this money I don't think I have a leg to stand on, not even on a technicality. The ONLY things that stand out are where you pointed out that the DN refers to the wrong section of the contract...section 8 when I think it should have been section 7 and also that Capital one were I think in breach of their own terms because it clearly states in section 8 where it deals with Monthly Statement "The statement will show all transactions debited to your account and payments made since your last transaction" Given that they have provided nearly 5 years of statements with NO transactions at all but just totals then I would think this breaks the terms of their own contract? Having said that. This particular litigation is between me and Lowell not me and Capital One so I don't think the judge will consider either the DN or the failure to comply with the contract and will simply concentrate on the fact that I admit I owe the money and that will be the end of it. A CCJ AND a large debt to pay. Not a great outcome for me.

Is there an example on the CAG of what "should" be on the reverse of that signed agreement page? I'm concerned because a judge will look at this and see all the required things present. The correct interest charges, the correct late payment charges etc. What I need to do is show what Lowell "have not" provided by example.

Ok I have read back but the documents they provided for the court, the Witness Statement, includes the 'Credit Agreement Regulated By The Consumer Credit Act 1974" and interest rates shown there are: Purchases 29.9% Balance Transfers 29.9% Cash Withdrawals 31.3% It also shows charges as follows: Late or Failure to Pay Charge £20 Returned Payment Charges £20 Overlimit Charge £20 Returned Credit Card Cheque Charge £15 Foreign Currency Conversion fee 2.75% As far as I know these are the correct interest fees and charges at the time of the agreement in Jan 2004

I'm not panicking so much as trying to make a rational decision based on the available evidence. Lowell have nothing to lose but a court fee. I have a LOT to lose and of course they know that which is why they pursue these cases in the first place. I have had unfortunate experience of courts in the past. ..not in a civil proceeding like this but, judges are judges and they come from a certain section of society which tends to put their moralistic view above that of the technicalities. I remember once sitting in court on a speeding charge. I was a dispatch rider at the time and I was doing 50 in a 30 but on a wide stretch of quiet road with no danger to anyone. Speeding is an occupational hazard as a dispatch rider. There was a guy up before me, a business man with a lawyer. He had been caught drunk driving down the high street swerving across the road and was a distinct danger to everyone around him. It was also not the first time. He got off with a fine and I got banned for 6 months! That is one of the many reasons why I do place a lot of faith in our courts. It's always open to the judges discretion, unless of course you have a very good lawyer who can argue the intricacies of the law in your favour. Is there a template for a witness statement? I was just going to copy the format of the one Lowell sent. Should I keep it short and to the point. Simply rebuffing the statements they have made? By the way, The terms and conditions provided by Lowell as part of their evidence and that shows the interest rates for purchase, balance transfers and cash withdrawals. Isn't that the terms that would have been on the reverse of the signed credit agreement? Or are the prescribed terms different? I want to be very clear when submitting my witness statement what the difference is between what they have provided and what is actually required.

Thanks Andy So I just wanted to confirm that no matter what, I must still submit my witness statement today...well in fact I probably know that already but, Lowell can still cancel the whole proceeding as stated in their cover letter "Should you wish to discuss a resolution of this case without the need for a hearing, do feel free to contact us as soon as possible" I know of course they will tack on their court costs etc but maybe given the alternative it's a price worth paying. If it just affected me then I would not be bothered about it all but it affects my wife if we go for a mortgage and it also affects us when looking to rent as we go through a company called Open Rent and we deal with the landlords directly. I really don't want to have to say I have a CCJ. Technically it may not mean much but it scared landlords.

I have not yet put in my Witness statement. I know it needs to go in today or tomorrow at the latest. The court is not far from me so it will be hand delivered. I'm still unsure about allowing this to proceed to trial because of the risks involved in having that CCJ on my file. I know as you mentioned it does not matter in general terms but certainly it would be a very large spanner in the works as far as any future mortgage application goes and I can't do that to my wife. So the way I see it is, I am not disputing that I owe the money but simply trying to avoid paying it via some legal manoeuvring i.e trying to find fault in the way Lowell have pursued the case. The problem with that is it all depends on getting the right judge because from what I have been reading, many judges will rule in favour of the claimant in circumstances like mine. That is they often "overlook" the small discrepancies and go with the fact that I do actually owe the money. That is quite a gamble on my part. I have managed to stretch this whole thing out for over 6 years and even though I am not in any position to pay this debt off. I think that sometimes you have to know when to pick your battles and when to concede defeat...or at least a tactical retreat If I had the money spare and didn't have to consider the consequences of the CCJ I would have no hesitation in fighting this. Simply because I know how Lowell operate...my wife once worked for them! and they are one of the most underhand, deceitful organisations out there. But...I DO owe the money so that's what I keep coming back to. Any thoughts on that?

Well I know we will be looking to buy at some time over the next couple of years so it is something to consider. Also what happens if Lowell win and I have a judgement laid against me. I definitely can't afford to pay off the debt in full so where does that leave me?

unfortunately Lowell paid the court fee on the 31st May. obviously they are pretty confident In winning. Will have to try and compile a defence later today. I think it's going to be a bit thing though because It all rests on processes not a dispute about the amount owed. My own feeling is that a judge will lean more toward Lowell because I am not disputing that I owe the amount...which is what they are claiming. Lowell know that people will be weighing up a CCJ against a payment plan and the payment plan is always the lesser of the two evils because a CCJ can have such a devastating impact on your credit record...even if that record is not great to start with. I'm very reluctant to let Lowell get away with forcing me into any sort of payment plan but at the same time a CCJ not only affects me but also my wife, who at the moment has an impeccable credit record. It would greatly impact on us when trying to find a new place to live when we eventually move from here. Lots to think about.

Thanks. will phone the court tomorrow and then get the documents off. I expect I need to send the docs even if Lowell have missed the payment deadline just so I comply with things my side? It did occur to me that Lowell may well have sent the docs to me in the hope I would settle.

Actually that was something that came to mind. Is there a way to check online or do I need to phone the court? Hearing date is 7th July

Well this is the thing. There never was any dispute over what I owed Capital One. The problem arose when I got into financial difficulty. Before these problems arose I knew I was struggling I wrote to Capital One and asked if they would agree to move me to one of their lower interest rate cards. After I had been with them for 8 years, never missed a payment and yet they were still charging me nearly 30% interest! The idea of this card was to improve my credit rating. I think after 8 years I had ably demonstrated my credit worthiness. ..otherwise they would surely not have kept increasing my credit limit? Yet apparently I was not a good enough risk to move to a lower interest rate card? Capital One simply told me that in order to move to a lower interest rate I would first need to close my account, clear the balance and then apply again..but they could not guarantee I would be accepted! Rather convenient for them. Maybe I should have just got another credit card and did a balance transfer. I was not that wise back then When I started to struggle with the payments I wrote to Capital One and offered to pay £50 per month until my circumstances improved but they flat refused and instead suspended my account and passed it to Fredrickson International. I made the same offer to them and they refused stating "Our client thinks this is too small an amount". I wrote back explaining my circumstances again and that I really could not make a higher offer because I couldn't guarantee to meet the payment every month, hence I offered what I knew I could afford. They again refused so I told them to take me to court and let a judge decide. I didn't hear anything for must have been nearly 12 months and then I find the debt had been sold to Lowell. At that point many people were saying just to ignore them. Bad advice as it happens...not given here I should add! So that is how we end up where we are now.

Received the documents Lowell are intending to present in evidence. Have attached the redacted copy here. Only things I can see here are they have made a statement that I offered to pay £100 per month and failed to do that however I have never offered such an amount and they have not provided evidence to show where I did. I would not have done that because I know I could not afford it. I did as mentioned near the start of this thread, make several offers of £50 per month but they were declined. They also have not mentioned Fredrickson International who were pursuing this before Lowell. I made offers of £50 per month to both Capital One and Fredrickson. I'm hoping I may still have copies of these offers but It was a long time ago so perhaps not. Can they make such a statement without providing evidence? If they can it makes it look like I entered into an agreement which I did not. This all leaves me with a rather large dilemma. I could prevent the court action from going ahead by making an offer. This way I would avoid a CCJ but be left struggling to pay a rather large debt. Or I could take a chance on my pretty thin defence and hope the court finds in my favour. ..but given the amount of evidence Lowell have and the fact that I am not disputing the amount but just the process I fear I will lose and be even worse off? As usual your advice would be most appreciated. Lowell WS.pdf

Seems a bit OTT for everyone to have to yet again supply the same documents supplied previously? No wonder things in this country move at a snails pace. I don't think item 11 applies to me though as I don't have any witnesses, it's just me.

Another update on this. Received another 'General Form of Judgement or Order' from the country court today laong with a 'Notice Of Trial Date' which is now set for 7th July. Have attached both documents (redacted) but as far as I can see it is now a simple matter of first, hoping Lowell don't pay the court fee in which case it will be struck out and then it's up to them if they start the process again or if it goes ahead I need to rely on the fact that they have not provided a 'True Copy' of the original agreement? court-order_Redacted.pdf trial-notice_Redacted.pdf

A ruling in 2009 by Judge Waksman at the High Court in Manchester established it was not necessary for a lender to provide the original credit agreement, or even a direct copy, such as a fax or scan. He ruled it was perfectly acceptable to provide a copy of the agreement reconstituted from other bank sources, so long as it accurately and honestly told the borrower the original terms and conditions, and any subsequent changes.

Just going to submit my defence, the court gave me until today to get it in. Will deliver in person. But before I do I just wanted to check something about the original agreement with my signature on it. Is it a "legal requirement" that the original is produced to the court not a photocopy? If I remember correctly, at least at the time the agreement was signed. Photocopies were not accepted as legal proof of an agreement and it always had to be the original document? The reason I mention this is because IF it is legally required that the original be produced and Lowell do not have it then perhaps "legally" speaking there is no agreement? Might be clutching at straws but you guys are far more knowledgable than me about all this so wanted to get your opinion. I just found out myself that the "original" signed agreement does not need to be produced in court. my defence seems to revolve around compliance. I suppose it can be argued that the copy of the signed agreement Lowell provided is not a "true copy" of the original. It is only part of the original document and does not contain the prescribed terms and conditions and it therefore unenforceable. I think though I would need to quote the particular piece of legislation concerned or it will not be considered.

If the court would not allow a stay of judgement then they should not muddy the waters by giving the option to do so. I simply took the option so I have done nothing at all wrong in that respect. Perhaps they should try speeding up the reply process. In any case the point of this whole exercises is to drag it out as long as possible. I have no doubt at all that the judgement will be in favour of Lowell because realistically we have been through all the reasons why this thing should never get to court and apparently that is exactly where it is heading. The only defence I could possibly have would be on technical grounds and Lowell seem to have satisfied the court in that respect. I'll think of something I'm sure but don't quite know what as yet.

I didn't say you advised I write and ask for a stay. On the form of judgement it gave the option to do that otherwise I would not have done it.

after writing back to the court a couple of weeks ago asking them to stay the judgement and request that Lowell provide the full prescribed terms I received a letter from the HM Courts & Tribunals Service as follows: Dear Sir Re: Case Number XXXXXXXX Lowell Prortfolio I Ltd vs Mr XXXX XXXXXX Your letter dated 7 April 2017 was referred to District Judge XXXXX who has directed as follows:- I will not make a further order of my own initiative at present. The defendant must comply with the order made by Deputy District Judge XXXXXXX on 3rd April 2017 by 19 April 2017. Yours faithfully. XXXX XXXXXX first of all how can I comply by the 19th April when it is already the 25th April and the letter they just sent me is dated 24th April? I don't have a time machine unfortunately. Leaving that aside I assume now I just go ahead and submit a defence of one sort or another. I have no doubt this will eventually come down on the side of Lowell and I will be left with a CCJ and big bill to pay off but I guess all I can do now is try.

Ahh, ok got it. The 'prescribed' terms are those that show the credit limit and repayment details including the percentage rate. Apologies, I should definitely read more before asking!

Ok but is that short version of the credit application form with my signature on it all the court needs? In other words if I were to ask the court to stay the judgement on the basis that the full T&C's were not supplied would that work?

They did provide the statements although there are no "detailed" statements between 6th Feb 2004 and 6th August 2009 and even more odd where is shows 'paid in' and 'paid out' both are £0.00 so for over 5 years nothing was paid in and nothing paid out? The minimum payment due and new balance changes over that period as does the credit limit but there are no other details. As for the original credit agreement, apart from that small slip with my signature and the date I take it there is also supposed to be a back side to it with the full terms and conditions? Thanks again for your help. Most of us would be completely lost without this website.

I'm thinking that I may have come to the end of the road with this one? Lowell have submitted all the documents requested so now the ball is in my park and I don't think I have anywhere to hit it

Ok here's the DN they sent Lowell-Capital-One-DN.pdf