The transcript Vs A person shall not be made liable by virtue of subsection (2) above for any charges fixed in relation to any premises by any relevant undertaker, except where— (a)he fails to inform the undertaker of the ending of his occupation of the premises at least two working days before he ceases to occupy them; and (b)the charges are in respect of a period ending no later than with the first relevant day. My argument section B.* You attempted to read meter in March 2010 and recorded on your own paperwork property empty so surely by law my termination date is March 2010. (4)For the purposes of subsection (3) above, “the first relevant day”, in relation to a case in which a person has ceased to be the occupier of any premises in relation to which charges are fixed by a relevant undertaker, means whichever of the following first occurs after he ceases to occupy the premises, that is to say— (a)where that person informs the undertaker of the ending of his occupation of the premises less than two working days before, or at any time after, he ceases to occupy them, the twenty-eighth day after he so informs the undertaker; (b)any day on which any meter would normally have been read in order for the amount of the charges to be determined; ©any day on which any other person informs the undertaker that he has become the new occupier of the premises. file.pdf

Any advice on this guys? Friday is the day The old ancient system is being decommissioned and a new combination installed week beggining 17th October however I need a new meter also but am not accepting a 4000 grand debt that ain't mine I advised through ombudsman they were attempting to obtain a warrent again to which they replied Dear Mr xxxx * Your complaint about your service provider * Thank you for your email received on 3 October 2016. * To help us decide the best way to help with your complaint, we need to know all of the following information: * · Whether there are any practical needs where we could help – by making adjustments like using large print, Braille or a different language. · If there is someone you want to handle the complaint for you, for example a friend, a relative or Citizens Advice. Please give their full name and contact details. · A detailed summary of your complaint. · Copies of any letters or emails which you have sent to the company. Please let us know when they were sent and where they were sent to. · Copies of any letters, bills or emails you have received which you think are relevant to your complaint. · Details of any telephone calls made or received, including dates, times and who you spoke to. · What you would like as a resolution to your complaint; this may include some practical action, an apology or an award to cover time and trouble. Our most common time and trouble award is £100.* * Please include our case reference number, shown at the top of this reply, with any information that you send to us. This will help us add the information to your case more quickly. * When using our service you are free to seek independent advice and you are able to withdraw from the process at any time. For more information about Ombudsman Services visit our website http://www.ombudsman-services.org. * Yours sincerely * Kevin Enquiry Officer  Telephone: 0330 440 1624 Email: osenquiries@os-energy.org

What a nightmare. Order for transcript was 5th however as it was originally delivered later there was a delay in obtaining. As original.hearing was issued initially. After paying a 20% uplift draft judgement was issued Friday to the original judge for his approval. In this time the claimant tried to get me for breach of order. I've had assurance the judge is sitting tomorrow afternoon so will review and file with appeal court by close of play tomorrow This is draining me. Surely the claimant must see thet4 case is not strong and to back down

I write further to our telephone conversation of 1 September 2016 in which we agreed to stay any further communication between the parties until your appeal was heard on 7 September 2016. * I understand that the Court has adjourned your appeal to the xxx and that a stay of execution of the Judgment has been ordered.* * You have been ordered to prepare and file a transcript of the judgment by xxx.* I have diarised this date accordingly. I yet again respectfully suggest that you obtain your own independent legal advice.* In order to engage in effective dialogue. As advised in our letter of 23 xxx you hold two accounts with us. * Account number xxx is in respect of your ongoing water and sewerage charges for xxxx (“the Property”). * Account number xxx is a ‘ring-fenced’ account subject to our litigation against you.* * You made payments towards your ongoing charges numbered xxxx and cleared the balance of this account on 26 August 2016. Account number xxx is currently in arrears of £2,202.70. * I note you have made a payment of £100.00 towards this account on 26 August 2016. * Our Managing Director clearly advised you of the terms of the Judgment Order in her email to you of 11 July 2016 and I will reiterate them here. * The County Court Judgment was 28 days old on 11 July 2016 The Judgment does not have a specific date to make payment of the instalments of £50.00 per month. * The usual terms are payment within the 28 days i.e. by 11 July 2016. * However, we granted you an additional 14 days outside of this deadline to make payment of the first instalment, i.e. by 25 July 2016. * Had you confirmed this as our Managing Director requested, we would have sent you a payment card and considered that you were complying with the Judgment Order.* In your email to me dated 15 August 2016, you allege that you have not received a payment card on the litigation account and referred to our Managing Director’s email to you dated 11 July 2016. * However, you did not confirm your acceptance of this offer. * In an email dated 11 July 2016 you responded to our Managing Director and accused her of threatening you. * You refused to discuss payment terms until the appeal was considered. * As such, I consider that you have clearly breached the terms of the Judgment and since you rejected the offer of repayment put to you, no payment card was sent in respect of this account. * For the avoidance of doubt, we have not agreed to any formal instalment plan on your litigation account and the entire balance is owed and demanded. You disclosed that there has been another occupier of the Property for the past three years, being your ex-partner who has recently vacated. * I refer to your letter of 19 June 2016 sent to our offices on 18 August 2016 which enclosed a ‘Budget Summary For Creditors’. * In that summary you have listed the number of adults in the property as at 19 June as being 1, although this now appears to be misleading. * *Further in your summary you stated you paid £100.00 a month towards your Council Tax, however in your email of 15 August 2016 you state that Council Tax was paid by your ex-partner. *I am sure you can appreciate that in respect of considering any settlement proposals, this puts us in a difficult position. * In order to work with you in managing your account, you have to be open and honest in respect of your financial circumstances. * I am therefore not willing to consider any settlement proposal absent of full disclosure of your financial position, signed by a statement of truth. * An income and expenditure form can be obtained here. You have queried why you were the only individual liable for water and sewerage charges at the Property. * In the first instance, we are able to hold any occupier jointly and severally liable for the services we provide. * Secondly, neither you nor your ex-partner previously disclosed his identity or requested to be joined to the ongoing charges account. * Please note that we will not engage in any other dialogue with you in respect of your liability for the sums awarded under the Judgment, as our position has been clearly provided to you in the proceedings. * In any event, you are appealing the same so it is not appropriate to comment on it further. In respect of our Customer Assistance Fund, you are aware that your application has been rejected on a number of occasions * Despite your allegation, this is not a ‘breach of contract’ as the Fund is discretionary and there is no automatic entitlement to it. * Considering you are still engaged in an appeal of the Judgment, and that you have not disclosed an accurate account of your financial position, the Fund is not available to you. * In your email of 17 August 2016 you have invited us to present a bankruptcy petition against you. * I note your request, however we do not intend to commence such action at this time. If you wish to disclose your financial circumstances and make an offer of payment for the whole debt outstanding, please complete, sign and return the Income and Expenditure form. * I will also require sight of the following: Wage Slips for the last three months; Bank statement for the last three months; andA copy of your Tenancy Agreement for the Property. Please note that we will not enter into any settlement proposals without full disclosure as requested above. * In respect of CCWater’s email dated 7 September 2016, you require confirmation that you can carry on paying £50.00 a month towards your current charges in anticipation of the new bill. * Please note that although we acknowledge you are appealing the Judgment, we consider that the balance under xx is owed. * As such, we are entitled to allocate any payments you make to us to the oldest debt. Please note that any payments you do make will not constitute a formal repayment arrangement without our prior agreement and the evidence we have requested above. * Yours sincerely Leon Hughes Litigation Manager This is the latest. A stay of execution had been granted. Payments of 50 have been made each month until stay was issued, they allocated a payment to current charges hence they claim a breach of contract. This is purely a tactic to which I have replied Good afternoon.* Please be advised legal advice has been obtained and this is why the case has been stayed as the judge stated I have a reasonable argument of law based on the legislation you obtained the judgement under. I have received formal notification via the post that a payment plan of £25 per month had been arranged and a payment plan issued.* In respect of the litigated account it was ordered payments of £50 per a month regardless of your allocation I have made a payment of at least £50 each month since the judgement and these payments were made on methods I had access to. Note current charges have also been cleared. It is contested that I have breached the order and I consider this to be your personal opinion I shall obtain clarification from judge Vosper during the next hearing.* Taking all the below into consideration I shall await further direction from the courts. To avoid any element of doubt the case has been stayed should you require any documentation in the meantime I invite you to apply through the courts for an order. A stay of execution on an active judgement is only granted where there is a reasonable ground of appeal based on an act of law. Welsh Water and Hugh James failed to disclose the full legislation section 144 and relied on certain sections had the full section been disclosed it would have been established the first relevant date Is such a time you tried to read the meter, from your own documents this was in March 2010 on 3 occasions in fact.* Based on the above and the fact the judge has stayed the execution I would request you do not correspond with me any further until judge Vosper has decided if this is a legitimate enforceable judgement in the meantime I will continue to pay £25 a month to current charges as per the formal letter and card received.* Kind regards Any opinions???

Face 2 face obtained entry on first visit. The representative was disgusted took photos and left. This was 2 months ago now grovesnor have the file and are taking court action. The compliance officer in face 2 face has assured me that there will be no further contact from them and further instructions will be refused

They have not obtained one as of yet they are going to attempt to on 14th October. The debt is so high as the amount is incorrect the meter is faulty as stated by their own third party assigned agents lowri beck. Any payments made will go on the oldest debt clearly disputed The warrant is to either disconnect my supply or fit a Pre payment meter. Ovo energy refuse to acknowledge any complaint and the ombudsman well they decline to review as been ongoing over 6 months

I have now had a response to the concerns that you have raised about Welsh Water and their reporting to your credit file. You raised concerns, on 27 June 2016, that Welsh Water were processing inaccurate personal data about you. This was because you had two accounts, one that was defaulted and currently the subject of a legal dispute. For these reasons, this account was "ring fenced" and further payment information, relating to your consumption of utilities, was indicated on a separate account. You raised concerns with us, as the water company were recording late payments on your credit file. You felt that this was unfair and inaccurate processing. As you provided an extract from your credit file indicating that it showed continuous late payments, I raised this concern with Welsh Water. Welsh Water have now responded to the questions I put to them. The key question related to the recording of late payments about you. Welsh Water have confirmed that these payments were mistakenly recorded as being late. They have, however, gone on to say that the reasoning behind this is because there system is set up to communicate with Experian on the assumption that the customers payments are always applied to the oldest debt. Welsh Water have advised that this is an isolated issue, and has been caused mainly by the fact that the arrangement they have with you is not a typical one. It is not their typical policy to apply payments to the latest charges, and it is not something they intend to do with other customers. What principle 4 of the Act says Holding inaccurate data does not automatically put an organisation in breach of the Act. We would, however, expect organisations to take reasonable steps to ensure the accuracy of personal data and; when such data is challenged, to assess whether or not the information they hold is accurate, and to amend it accordingly. In this case, I am satisfied that this has taken place. At the point where Welsh Water were made aware that late payments were being logged, month on month, they looked into this and have now put measures in place to ensure this situation does not continue. For this reason, I will not be making an adverse assessment against Welsh Water at this time. Obviously, if after a reasonable time, the late markers continue to appear on your credit file, we would be likely to contact Welsh Water again to request information as to why this has not been amended. We are satisfied that this problem has been caused due to the unforeseen consequences of recording the unique financial arrangement they have reached with you. As this financial arrangement was designed to help with your financial circumstances, we do not believe that the mis-recording in this case was intentionally prejudicial to your rights and freedoms under the Act, and it would be a punitive measure against Welsh Water for us to make an adverse assessment against them because of it. Conclusion As Welsh Water have now taken steps to amend the late payment markers on your account, there is no further action at this point, and the case will be closed. From the correspondence we have had on this case since early this year, it is quite clear that there are extensive concerns between yourself and Welsh Water. These concerns, fundamentally, relate to issues regarding service and allegations of money owed. For these reasons, it is unlikely that the ICO or any part of the Act would ever be able to resolve these concerns. I appreciate you raising these matters with the ICO, but unfortunately, we are unable to help you further in this matter. Yours sincerely, Mark Palmer - Case Officer Information Commissioner's Office

Dear Mr HXXXX I addressed your concerns regarding late payment markers in my assessment email to you of 22 July 2016. I acknowledged that Welsh Water had responded and advised that they were going to take steps to ensure that, going forward, your credit file reflected that payments were being made. In order for us to reconsider this assessment (a copy of which is enclosed with this email), we will need to see further evidence that late payment markers continue to be applied to your account. As Welsh Water acknowledged your concerns on 21 July, we would always give organisations a reasonable period within which to put things right. If, after August 18, you can show that the most recent copy of your credit file still shows the payments recorded as late payments, please provide a copy to us and I will raise your concerns with the organisation. Yours sincerely, Mark Palmer - Case Officer Information Commissioner's Office

I have had similar please see my litigation thread. The ICO have confirmed that if a formal payment arrangement is set up then that is what should be reported to credit reference agencies. The question is who arranged the £50 a month do you have it formally agreed in writing?

The application date is the 14th October

After a 2 year dispute with my energy supplier I am now in receipt of a court date from Grosvenor Legal services, Face to Face were previously instructed and refused to act once they done a home visit. the house is end of terrace and the meter needs replacing however due to the house being end of terrace national grid need to assist with the pipe work. The meter is faulty and apparently I have used £4017 gas in a 24 month period. This is a civil matter the magistrates courts have no jurisdiction surely??

They didn't turn up yesterday so will await them getting comms in post before making any proposal. In fact the law this is suspended on means the liable period is 11/2009 to 03/2010

Good news. I took this right back and focussed on one argument rather than several. They obtained judgement under section 144 part 3 of water industry act 1991. Section 144 was not disclosed in full at original hearing. Section 144 part 4 states any day on which any meter would normally have been read in order for the amount of the charges to be determined; As such my termination date is March 2010. A stay of execution has been grated and an adjournment pending me obtaining a transcript of the judgement. Appeal judge closed and said if judgement was awarded purely on section 3 you have a valid argument and ground for appeal as it's the law however before I make a final decison and to be fair to all I will require a transcript prior to granting permission to appeal. He further went on to say of it is listed for appeal it will be summer 2017 due to his schedule. What is the cheapest transcriber service around? Their argument I failed to inform the undertaker it is purely on the below they obtained judgement A person shall not be made liable by virtue of subsection (2) above for any charges fixed in relation to any premises by any relevant undertaker, except where— (a)he fails to inform the undertaker of the ending of his occupation of the premises at least two working days before he ceases to occupy them; and (b)the charges are in respect of a period ending no later than with the first relevant day. My argument section B. I've just stumbled across this. They attempted to read meter in March 2010 and recorded on their own paperwork property empty so surely I can argue that due to section B by law my termination date is March 2010. (4)For the purposes of subsection (3) above, “the first relevant day”, in relation to a case in which a person has ceased to be the occupier of any premises in relation to which charges are fixed by a relevant undertaker, means whichever of the following first occurs after he ceases to occupy the premises, that is to say— (a)where that person informs the undertaker of the ending of his occupation of the premises less than two working days before, or at any time after, he ceases to occupy them, the twenty-eighth day after he so informs the undertaker; (b)any day on which any meter would normally have been read in order for the amount of the charges to be determined; ©any day on which any other person informs the undertaker that he has become the new occupier of the premises.

Big day tomorrow Appeal oral hearing. Listed for 30 mins

Much appreciated, shame I didn't dig deeper sooner. I see this as my last chance I will not be defeated. You have been direct throughout and if you consider it worth an argument then it's an argument I'll put forward after all if I had no chance you'd tell me. I'm baffled how they even obtained judgement is it not expected to provide full sections of legislation and not snippets to the claimants advantage bearing in mind I'm acting as litigant in person. Should the judge not have researched the relevant sections before passing his judgement if it takes a technicality to have this thrown out then a technicality it will be. I'll keep you updated. I've got 7 days reply to request oral hearing. Final question I read they can state no right to oral hearing is this common practice?

Their argument I failed to inform the undertaker it is purely on the below they obtained judgement A person shall not be made liable by virtue of subsection (2) above for any charges fixed in relation to any premises by any relevant undertaker, except where— (a)he fails to inform the undertaker of the ending of his occupation of the premises at least two working days before he ceases to occupy them; and (b)the charges are in respect of a period ending no later than with the first relevant day. My argument section B. I've just stumbled across this. They attempted to read meter in March 2010 and recorded on their own paperwork property empty so surely I can argue that due to section B by law my termination date is March 2010. (4)For the purposes of subsection (3) above, “the first relevant day”, in relation to a case in which a person has ceased to be the occupier of any premises in relation to which charges are fixed by a relevant undertaker, means whichever of the following first occurs after he ceases to occupy the premises, that is to say— (a)where that person informs the undertaker of the ending of his occupation of the premises less than two working days before, or at any time after, he ceases to occupy them, the twenty-eighth day after he so informs the undertaker; (b)any day on which any meter would normally have been read in order for the amount of the charges to be determined; ©any day on which any other person informs the undertaker that he has become the new occupier of the premises. They did not provide 28 days notice mearly 14. They did not draw my attention to the said legislation ( rights under section) until a Witness Statement was produced for proceedings

Need urgent caselaw or court judgements in relation to an account being assigned to a third party. Can anyone assist? Appeal refused however the appeal judgement states that "the issue in this claim is wheather the appellant is liable to pay the water bill under the provisions of the water industry act 1991. I have read the trail bundle and note that all the points raised in his appellants notice were put before judge xxx at the hearing, who also of course heard evidence from the respondent undermining some of the issues the appellant makes. This was a decison for the district judge on the facts. Where a district judge comes to findings of fact the appeal court cannot intervene unless it is shown that he came to a decision which is unsupported by evidence or is plainly wrong. This case does not pass the threshold. Accordingly I refuse permission to appeal If the appellant seeks to renew his application for permission to appeal at a hearing as he is entitled to do so, he should obtain a transcript of the original judgement and send it to the court at leastb3 days before the date fixed for hearing" I will be going to a oral hearing as the debt was assigned to fredrickons and as the assigned third party they were made aware of my vacation of the address. As this is my last chance I would appreciate greatly some caselaw legal info to support the appeal I was hoping not to have to get so technical however Section 150a water act 1991 No relevant undertaker may commence proceedings before any court in respect of any charge in connection with the supply of water for domestic purposes or (as the case may be) the provision of sewerage services other than by the carrying out of trade effluent functions unless, not less than 28 days before doing so, the customer concerned was informed by it, in such form and manner as may be prescribed, of— (a)its intention to commence proceedings; (b)the customer’s rights by virtue of this section; and ©such other matters (if any) as may be prescribed. This is apparently a provision as per the defence at the hearing, should a published provision not be followed in best practice? Were the water company under any obligation to adhere to the above?

Was issued a ticket by officer previous defended through court and I was awarded damages. 12 months ago An officer who witnessed the event previous watched me for 20 minutes yesterday in this time I'd visited a shop and returned to my place of work. There was a wall between us when I extinguished my cigarette. He couldn't see me I couldn't see him but was aware of his presence. Upon walking into my place of work I was apprehended and told to show him my cigarette butt. I asked why have you witnessed an offense? The situation escalated at which point i requested he call the police and activate his camera and he proceeded to write out a ticket. He said that although he had not seen it my failure to present the cigarette butt was enough to issue ticket. I requested my managers be called after all I was in work and once they arrived I presented the cigarette which was in my hand at all times. He immediately put his ticket book away No APOLOGY and went on to say he can stop me as he seen me smoking but didn't see me dispose of it. Absolute joke. I have subject access requested the CCTV footage

Can any one direct me to law regarding citizen rights regarding these enforcement officers? Do they have to witness an offence to stop you or is suspision enough to stop and detain an individual?

This is a separate matter not subject to litigation. There are two accounts reported on my credit file the litigated amount subject to appeal is defaulted and current charges, In relation to my current bill I have a payment plan of £50 per month, these payments have been made on time each month since being arranged. Despite the payment plan being agreed mutually the water company are recording late payments on my credit file. They believe this is lawfull as the full bill was not paid within 14 days. Ccwater don't agree, ICO wish to investigate. Thoughts and opinions would be greatly appreciated. Please see formal complaint reply below;- Dear Mr xxx * Thank you for your emails dated 9 June 2016 in respect of your credit file.* I hope this letter clarifies some of the issues for you. * I understand that you are unhappy that we have recorded a late payment of £264.00 on your current account. Bill number 7xx dated 8 April 2016 was sent to you for the period 15 October 2015 – 7 April 2016.* I note that your property is serviced by a water meter, so you are being charged for actual consumption of water. * As you are aware you hold 2 accounts with us.* Account number 3xxx is in respect of your ongoing water and sewerage charges for address.* Account number 3xxx is a ‘ring-fenced’ account subject to our litigation against you. * Unrelated to your accounts that you hold with us, we report your total amount outstanding on a monthly basis to Experian and follow a process of default where it is not settled within a specified time. This occurred on your record on 24 February 2016 and you will have seen your record with Experian being classified as ‘defaulted.’ * Any subsequent charges raised against your account are then reported as a new record with Experian, which you have highlighted in your recent email. These are reported as increasingly behind unless the full amount owing, inclusive of the defaulted amount, is cleared. * Should the new charges remain outstanding within a specified time, we may decide to follow a process of re-defaulting your record with Experian. This would result in your “new charges” record being closed and applied to the existing default, thereby increasing the amount you are currently defaulted for. We would always notify you first before this occurs and allow 28 days to prevent this occurring. * I am aware that you set up a payment plan of £50.00 per month towards your ongoing charges, and these payments will be visible on Experian as a reduction in the new charges outstanding. In addition, while this plan is in place we will not enter your account into the process of re-default. * It is upon this basis that data is shared with Credit Reference Agencies and we are unable to remove or alter correct information.* Noting that the 02 balance is correct and recently confirmed by our Court proceedings against you, I am satisfied that the information we have shared is correct on this occasion. * Please note that since 2010, water companies have been permitted by the Information Commissioners Office and OFWAT to share data with Credit Reference Agencies.* The information sharing scheme is carefully regulated by law and by strict rules drawn up by the organisations who share information. * We’ve now fully reviewed your complaint but if you’re unhappy with our reply you can ask the Consumer Council for Water Wales to review your case.* If they can’t resolve it and you’re still dissatisfied then you can contact the alternative dispute resolution scheme WATRS, which is free for you to use.** You’ll find further details of how to do this on page 5 of our booklet ‘How we handle your complaints and compliments’.* Our recent email explains how you can view this booklet using our website. * Yours sincerely * Julia Cherrett Managing Director Dŵr Cymru Customer Services

The evidence was supplied through the claimants witness statement. The appeal was sent to court and served on claimant no objections has been raised and fee has been requested and paid This is the document relied upon. The appeal asks for what outcome you want. We have said. We accept liability for November 2009 until March 2010 as their own inspection report states property empty. I've asked for case to be struck out but if not the judgement is varied so that March 2010 to June 2013 does not form part of judgement to support this any payment made would have gone on disputed amount as supplier failed to split accounts so that there was a disputed and undisputed balanace. Furthermore despite having a payment arrangement in place for current charges they are reporting late payment something the ICO have taken in this is a separate accout to that subject to litigation water.pdf

An appeal has been filled with the court, it's been refused at court level so has been escalated to a circuit judge for review. Legal advice has been obtained on the judgement and the appeal is based on the judgement being awarded that I failed to inform the supplier of my vacation of the address. Based on this we appeal on the grounds that the notice given to the claimants assigned third party would have met this obligation it's unjust for me to be held liable for their assigned third party not forwarding information further to the above in 2010 the claimant instructed another third party to visit the property who reported the property empty. We consider these two events to have satisfied my obligation under the water industry act 1991.

Have spoken with step change today and they will be completing the application for the DRO for me as only slected companies can submit the application. They agree a DRO Is the best course of action as costs less than bankruptcy. Spoken to my bank and as they won't be included they are happy for me to keep my account with the DRO.

I'm taking payday loans to see me through the last two weeks of a month. Recent events ccj have made me realise I can't bury my head and I need to act. There are over 8 defaults on my credit file and now a ccj what more damage can there be ??

Ccj Welsh water Gas Halifax Nationwide Vanquis Mr lender Safteynetcredit credit 247 money box Aps Capital one T mobile Life mobile S&u plc Wonga