For everybody's information. I have still heard nothing else from MacKenzie Hall (or indeed Black Horse).

Sorry I haven't updated for ages. I received a second letter from BT almost identical to the first. I will be filing the court papers this Friday. I will base it on similar wording to that used for bank charges since the principle is the same (i.e. charge is not a true reflection of the cost).

Also, a quick note to Lantana, on reflection my "joke" does sound a bit nasty. Apologies. Not intended that way. But, for the reasons mentioned, I would prefer to close my correspondance with you.

The first line is a joke based on the almost evangelical phrasing of Lantana's post. But I'm afraid that as we have no way of knowing who is actually behind some of the advice on here, it is appropriate to point out conradictory posts. I also think it appropriate to alert other posters to the tone of certain contributers posts and maybe compare them to the type of writing we receive from banks. I am advising caution.

As I mentioned earlier, I had a response to my initial request for a refund of the late payment charges which just fell short of implyng that my late payments have resulted in various famines and the Iraq war. Anyone who doesn't pay their BT bill immediately is the **** of the earth. The writer (Mrs Jane Thompson) told me the "issue has been closed". Well, that was dated 1/3/07. I responded with a "letter before action" sent on 5/3/07. Today (8/3/07) I have received a second letter dated 6/3/07, again from Mrs. Jane Thompson. She wouldn't yet have received my "letter before action". This one says that the "issue" has been sent to the complaints department and their procedure will be followed (some sort of never-ending maze presumably). The letter invites me to call a number if I want to "discuss this further" and trusts this "clarifies the situation". Er....no! Oh well, if no intelligable response by the 20th, the court action starts.

Please excuse me, but are you a born-again Christian or a recovering alcoholic? Besides the above your posts strike me as very suspicious. For example:- On 6/3/07 you advise “Redgirl” “Do exactly as kennyparkroad suggests in his post. ---which refers to “doesnt matter if they have recieved the letter (which i hope you sent recorded delivery) then the account is in dispute, which means they cannot collect money until they comply with your CCA request, Yet you respond to my suggestion to hold back payment until I get my CCA with:- “I don't really know what MCS will do next, but by not paying at this time you're inviting court action. It's for you to decide if you want that.” In the same post kennyparkroad also says:- “what i would do is write to them and state youve sent them a CCA request (on the date you sent it) and that the account is legally in dispute (attach a copy of the CCA you sent and send it recorded delivery) and simply inform them that no requests for payment can legally be made while the account is in dispute. But you say to me:- “They can contact you if they wish, unless they are harassing you but it doesn't sound to me like they are”. You seem to advise Redgirl (via kennyparkroad's post) very positively but suggest to me that following the same action is not 100% the right thing to do. I have carefully looked over the content and tone of your other posts (in comparison to other contributers) and, while thanking you for your contribution, would respectfully ask that you do not further add to any of my threads as I am unsure of your motives.

I made the offer because I am willing and able to pay off my debt. I am considering witholding payments because I see it as the only leverage I have in making them communicate with me. I am entitled to an answer to the "lying" issue (and, indeed, the CCA - which, if they can't find, means the whole thing's void anyway). HSBC have made life very difficult for me. Firstly with their unlawful charges and secondly, forcing me into a situation where I was unable to pay my loan repayments without first paying their penalty charges. It is completely their fault that this situation has happend. As much as I can, legally and without making things worse for myself, I want to challenge them at every opportunity, especially when they try to intimidate me by suggesting I have tried to avoid them and not face up to my debt.

I fully intend to start paying the agreed amount. I was wondering if there is anything to be gained by witholding it at the moment and putting each monthly amount to one side until the following issues are sorted. 1) I want and am entitled to the CCA. They are out of time on this (5th was 14 days) and by 2nd April will have committed a criminal offence. 2) I believe they are lying about the returned mail. I want evidence of their claim. If they are making this up, is it harrassment?

After I sent MCS my request for the CCA (they signed for my letter on 20th Feb) they have sent me a letter (27th Feb) saying they are happy to accept the monthly amount I originally offered to HSBC. Were they allowed to contact me without sending my requested CCA? Am I entitled to withold starting the payments until I receive my CCA?

Just had a response from my initial letter asking for the charges back. Usual crap that we're used to with the banks. The woman ended the letter with "I will now be closing this matter". Well I won't. Letter before action has been sent.

Hi to anyone who is watching this, I wrote back to Metroplolitan pointing out that to my knowledge no mail has ever been sent back to anyone from my address with "Gone Away" written on it. I said that if indeed they were acting on behalf of HSBC could they send me copies of the returned letters with "Gone Away" written on them as I intend to take the matter up with the police. I suspect Metropolitan are making the whole thing up. I pointed out that HSBC had acknowledged, in a phone call, receipt of my payment offer and rejected it because it was received after their 28 day deadline. This proves to me that the "Gone Away" story is fabricated. Due to the odd way they seem to be conducting themselves I also requested a CCA. They have respnded with a letter confirming acceptance of the offer I made to HSBC. I have made no such offer to Metropolitan so they must be accepting that I have responded to HSBC and not returned mail items with "Gone Away" written on them. They have made no reference to my request for copies of these returned letters. They have also made no reference to my request for a CCA. Even though they have picked up and accepted my original payment offer to HSBC am I right in beleiving that they can not contact me regarding this matter until they have complied with my CCA request, and as well as now being in default (2 weeks since I sent the CCA request) they have committed an offence by contacting me re the original payment offer to HSBC? Any ideas?

Richie2007, You have absolutely no idea why and how individuals get into debt situations. Your post is unhelpful and ignorant.

BTW, a managed loan (HSBC) is a loan for people with naugty accounts (I think).

Wow! Utter B******! Just got a letter from Met. saying "We understand from our client that correspondance has been returned from your address marked 'Gone Away'. Utter bollocks! I deal with all my financial stuff. If not by mail, then HSBC have all my (many) 'phone calls recorded. I have NEVER pretended to not be at an address (I have lived here for 6 years with all statements delivered) Is this , like, slanderous or something? Anyway, I know I can arrange a payment, but can I stuff them for the unfair closure of my loan account and, also, the vindictive closure of my current account (recent A&L judgement I think???). Any advice will be most welcome.

Hi, This is a little complicated but please stay with me. It's possibly a nice juicy one for some of you legal heads out there. Background: I have had a current account with HSBC for about 12 years. Last summer I successfully claimed back £2000 in unlawful charges and interest etc. I also have a managed loan account which has been running for years. Problem: In May last year I was made redundant. Managed loans do not have insurance so I could not meet the monthly payments. The bank just asked me to keep them informed of my employment situation. By October I was back in work. However, my zero current account balance had since become overdrawn (over £100) due to new penalty charges being levied due to my loan repayments not being met. Before getting my new salary paid into my current account I asked the bank to cancel the unlawful charges, pointing to the example of their out-of-court settlement of £2,000 earlier in the year. They refused. I pointed out that if I paid in enough money to pay my monthly loan repayment, it would be swallowed up by the charge-induced overdraft. They said I would therefore have to pay in extra to cover the overdraft. I said I had no intention of doing that as the overdraft was caused by their unlawful charges. I then offered to go into my branch every month to pay my loan repayment in cash over the counter. I was told this would not be possible. "We can only accept loan repayments via standing order from your current account". I said I would therefore have to go down the same route as previously and get the charges cancelled through threat of court action. The woman then said "If you do that Mr. Denver, we'll close both your accounts". So, by November we were at a stalemate. I wouldn't pay any money into my current account (because the bank would use it to pay off the overdraft) and therefore I had no way of paying my loan repayments because the bank wouldn't let me. Current situation: In January I received a letter demanding repayment of the total sum outstanding on my loan (about £10k) and the overdraft (£157). I filled out their Income and Expenditure form and made a proposal of a monthly payment but it was received by them a few of days after their 28 day deadline. I have not had any correspondance back but when I 'phoned I was told it had been passed to Metropolitan and the accounts had been closed because I had not replied within the 28 day period required. No word from Metropolitan yet. Questions: Where the bank allowed to close my loan account when they, effectively, were the reason I could not continue with the payments? What is my next move when I hear from Metropolitan demanding payment?

I wish you would

Yes, I will wait . I'm just a little jumpy about this annonymous copy that's been sent. I'm imagining a scenario where BH have sent it (even though I asked them not to as I was dealing with MH) and they have informed MH that it has been sent. However, there is no proof of delivery. Nothing was signed for.

If I haven't had a response from MH when the 2 weeks are up I'll send them another recorded letter reminding them of the criminal offence they will commit if I don't get a response within the month. The copy sent (from God knows who) is a photocopy of the faxed agreement sent to them from the shop when I signed it. Shouldn't they (the creditor - Black Horse or MH) have the hard copy that the shop should have posted to them with my real signature on it?

Yes, signed by both. Going back to my original point, am I safe to ignore this copy for now as it has been sent annonymously (I think by Black Horse after my phone call - not in response to MacKenzie Hall from whom I've requested it)?

Today a copy of the agreement arrived with no compliment slip or letter to say where it had come from. The postmark makes me believe it has come from Black Horse. Black Horse has already informed me (verbally) that they have sold the debt to MH (in a phone call yesterday). Am I right to ignore this unsolicited copy of the agreement and wait for the response from MH to my original request? As far as I'm concerned I haven't received anything (it wasn't sent recorded or registered and with no clue as to who sent it). This may sound petty but after the way they spoke to me (while I was trying to come to an agreement) I will legally obstruct these b***** any way I can.

Quick update. I called Black Horse yesterday and asked them to confirm that MH were now handling the debt. The woman found my details instantly, said yes they are and then for some reason (idiot) I told her of the CCA request. She said "MH haven't got any agreements but I can send you a copy". I informed her that I have now entered into correspondance with them about this so I will wait for MacKenzie Hall's response. Why did she offer the agreement if it's gone to MH? I called Black Horse a second time to try and clarify the position of MH. The bloke I spoke to could not find my details and put me on hold for 10 minutes. When he returned he confirmed that Black Horse had SOLD THE DEBT to MH. Does that mean Black Horse now have absolutely nothing to do with the debt? i.e. if MH mess up with the CCA etc. it can not be bounced back to Black Horse?

Hi Tandy32, I think that the advice you have been given here is sound but can I just add something. Reading between the lines you sound like a very pleasant person and, dare I say it, too trusting. These people are business people and may well have been stung in the past. So they are not going to do you any favours. Or particularly care about your situation. Cover yourself at every step. No benefits of the doubt. No hope we'll have an amicable solution. The world, unforuntely isn't like that. Be careful.

As tevion said, stop panicking. It is very unlikely that they will follow their threats up. The above advice sounds good to me. I joined Fitness First gym on a year contract. 3 months in I was made redundant so I called them and said I would be cancelling my direct debit. They said "You can't". I put the phone down. 2 months later the head office sent me a letter threatening court action etc., then another a month later. I ignored them both and that was 3 years ago. Nothing ever happend. It's really not worth their while. Prick up your ears if you get a court date. It won't happen.

I've had enough of this. I have paid the £5 late charge on, bar one, every bill since it was introduced. Being late once tends to produce a domino effect (well, it does with me anyway). The "reminder" letter does not, apparently, incur the charge. Pay after that and no charge will be applied. At some mystical date after the "reminder" has been sent out (and you still haven't paid) then the charge is added to your next bill . Nothing else has happend since the "reminder" so the £5 "admin" charge covers NO admin. I've just been told this by BT. So I told them it's therefore an unenforcable penalty charge. The dates also vary wildly - they've just admitted it. Recently, after allowing for the crap postal service, I have had about 10 days from receipt of initial bill to the £5 charge being applied. In anyone's eyes that has got to be wrong - and don't forget the bill is for 3 months service I haven't even had yet, not the previous quarter. Here are the 4 example bills. Bill 01/02/06 Rem. 15/02/06 Charge 26/02/06 Bill 01/05/06 Rem. 15/05/06 paid Bill 01/08/06 Rem. 08/08/06 Charge 18/08/06 Bill 01/11/06 Rem. 08/11/06 Charge 19/11/06 It only adds up to £35 with the others but that's my £35. They've given me all the dates over the 'phone so off goes the first letter.

Thank you:) . CCA on it's way to MH.