No problem ... it gets to be Acronym-Hell in here for me at times, that's all Link have provided statements 6-monthly, though I now can only find a few of them. "Getting all the statements from MBNA will be interesting" - Are you saying I need to SAR MBNA? Or are you just making a joke about their filing system?

The same people I sent it to and who have returned it with the request that I send it to RBS ... confusing ... 1 - Original debt with NatWest, cred card bal. 2 - Been paying via Intrum Justitia regularly for years, sent CCA to them 3 - Received letter from Experto Credite in response saying they had got the CCA, had taken the debt over, were happy to continue the same payment arrangement, but that my CCA letter needed to go to RBS at a Southend-on-sea address No idea where RBS comes in to it, unless Exp Cred just slipped up and wrote the wrong Bank name and address in to their reply. However, to answer your question I pay (now) Exp Cred, and they were handed the CA by Intrum Justitia and have simply sent it all back. Thinking I will reject Exp Cred's response and point them to their obligations, but CCA NatWest along with a complaint about their Agent's improper conduct etc. Any better advice welcomed as always, plus is there a pointer here to the best department/person/title to address the Nat West CCA to? I have searched for quite a while before asking here, but if it is mentioned at all it is totally buried..

I most certainly will, and I will probably be applying your input and that of CitizenB here to the matter covered in my Experto Credite thread from this morning too in which NatWest also figures so might be receiving two letters from me not one! Although, there's some coinfusion at the moment as Experto Credite, who actually appears not to be very experto at all, is wanting to divert me to Royal Bank of Scotland and I can't understand why so am entirely reluctant to do so anyway ... quite a puzzle but one I need to get to the bottom of. So I now have four CCA letters out and current, and none has been without prompt challenge/deflection/hand-washing by the DCA concerned. Bodes well! Thank you for your continued support and guidance.

Thanks for this. They are not chasing me. My initial post that this and others have split-off from, as referenced at the head of this one also, related collectively to a number of debts that I have reduced-payment arrangements in place with and am managing to keep on top of and theoretically could just endeavour to carry on with on that basis. I wished to address these as I won't see 65 again and we are in much-reduced circumstances. I was strongly urged to check first that all was legitimate regarding those debts, and to send CCA letters to get that moving. So the impetus in all of this comes from me looking to manage my affairs moving deeper in to senior years, not from needing to defend against a threat from a DCA or otherwise. ...................... My inclination now is to write in similar fashion to that suggested by Brigadier and CitizenB on my Moorcroft thread, rejecting the basis of their on-referral and highlighting their obligation to forward CCA requests to their client, and then to CCA their client NatWest direct and also make a formal complaint to them about their Agent's shoddy mishandling. BUT ... I am confused by the referral to RBS in all of this ... spinning a little here wondering which path at the crossroads. Given that they nor NatWest nor RBS are chasing me therefore, is it still recommended just to wait for 12+2 then respond? Or better to try and be constructive at this point in my own best interest because maybe between them and me I am the only one who is actually bothered?! Just now I can't see what is in my own best interest, and whether this involves RBS directly anyway ... puzzling!

Hello Brigadier and thank you. Certain of the concerns you point out had also crossed my mind, such as the potential for misuse of a specimen signature. I didn't have a suspicious bone in my body until I came here I will be responding to Moorcroft today as suitable, and will copy-in Natwest with a complaint also if I can find the right person/office/address to send it to or else I am sure it would just disappear never to be seen again.

Fancy bumping in to you here Thank you, and to the extent of my limited knowledge that seems perfect - I do want to snap back at them today. I particularly chuckled over the "Under the instruction of the above client and in order to ensure that your data remains protected" part, wondering whether requesting copy/confirmation of their client's instruction would blow just one fuse or all of them! Thanks a lot!

edited

Interesting reading ... We'll see, as right now my own progress with Link stands at having sent a CCA letter which reaches 12+2 this coming Tuesday, and their response saying they had to get the papers from MBNA which might take 30 days. Also I have been advised to SAR them in view of their proclivities toward shady behaviour. In response I requested clarification as I am unclear whether that advice meant to do so after 12+2 if nothing arrives, or after their 30 days, or right now to get ahead of the game, and I am waiting for a response though 12+2 is right around the corner anyway now.

I always knew how to choose them!

Just seen your response ... we were out for much of last evening making sure things were alright with three 90-plus year olds that we keep an eye on with visits etc. ... and just now this weather is beginning to be a little much when living alone at so senior an age. So then .... Thanks , though you've lost me a little just now ... no idea at all what a DMC is, nor just what *plan* you might be referring to. Checking, it was an Abbey National card from the 90s sometime. I understand that MBNA managed Abbey’s accounts from 2001 by request, and bought Abbey anyway in 2008. No it hasn't done the rounds, quite the opposite and in fact it all couldn't be any simpler anyway: 1 Registered unemployed in 2002 (business slump) 2 Claimed on the PPI which covered repayments for a year 3 Couldn't cover the payments when the insurance stopped, account defaulted, was making reduced payments to MBNA 4 Was notified 2004 that Link had bought the debt and I would be dealing with them from that point, moved reduced payments to them. Fall in to a trap? Yes, if it was the one of doing what I believed was required. For information, all the 4 debts that you have had me address initially via CCA letters came about in the same way ... a default, insurance supported for 12 months, reduced payments subsequently, debt passed to DCA after a while, reduced payment switched to them. Nothing complicated. I have just started threads on the other two of these as I have had their responses to my CCA letters this morning. Both are time-wasting and one in particular is more than a little annoying/laughable … take a look and you'll see what I mean.

Split out from http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?396381-Observations-please-on-how-I-hope-to-deal-with-a-number-of-debts , addressing a group of similar debts. CCA letters sent , now posting individual cases separately as each progresses: ************** This is the last of those 4 matters, a NatWest credit card account being handled by Moorcroft to whom I have been making reduced payments of £5 per month. CCA letter sent last week as advised, typing my name rather than signing it, and leaving the payee name on the Postal Order blank as stressed. I have now received a reply that is manipulative, amateurish, scheming, laughable, or all four. To quote: "Under the instruction of the above client and in order to ensure that your data remains protected, all credit agreement requests must be hand signed. Also our clients require the £1 fee to be made payable to them. Please re-send your payment made payable to the above named client and re-send along with your hand signed request letter as soon as possible so that we can action your request." They have returned the Postal Order. I believe this is complete and utter tosh, am I correct? If that is the case, then whether it is deliberate in order to obtain a specimen signature or for some other self-serving purpose, or is accidental because they have all the professional acumen of a boiled egg and half as much intelligence, a swift and rather sharp rap on the knuckles is strongly called for plus proper attention to my request which at this point happens already to be ten days in to the 12+2 allowed to them for complying. Can someone possibly please provide a suitably robust form of words that I can use in reply referring them directly to the appropriate regs and formal provisions and duties for receiving and efficiently dealing with a CCA request? Thank you.

Split out from http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?396381-Observations-please-on-how-I-hope-to-deal-with-a-number-of-debts , addressing a group of debts. CCA letters sent, now posting individual cases separately as each progresses: ************** This relates to the third of the four, a debt in respect of a defaulted Nat West loan with £5 per month being paid to/via Intrum Justitia to whom I sent a CCA letter just over a week ago. I have now had a response from Experto Credito advising that they have taken over the account from I-J, and I am to deal with them henceforth. They then state that all CCA letters should be sent to The Royal Bank Of Scotland along with the £1 fee, and provide a Southend-on-sea address. No idea where RBS fits in to this, unless Experto Credite is part of the organisation maybe. They have not returned the £1 Postal Order. I believe that it is the duty of someone receiving a CCA letter to pass it forward to whoever is the right person/office to deal with it? I don't object to redirecting my contact if it is needed in order to move things along, however if there are established processes already in place especially to take care of this I would prefer that a) people know they have a duty, b) people do their job, 3) nobody wastes their time. So does this letter deserve a response from me, presumably at least to point out that they have hung on to my £1 if not actually to point out their obligation? Any suggested phrasing or quoted regulations would be much appreciated if so, thanks! Or is it simpler just to CCA RBS anyway per their letter as I can do that instantly and avoid letter ping-pong?

I hadn't even considered there was any significance .... you mean, some are bad and the others are worse? MBNA

Thanks for keeping in touch with all of these dx, appreciated The original debt was a credit card balance of c£4,100 at the time with a High Street Bank from whom Link bought it. I just wanted to say you guys do a great deal of good that you might not realise, just dropping back on to a thread occasionally between the bigger points. The chit-chat can often provide as much value as the direct advice, and often on a more personal level. Your above remark did indeed ease my mind, thank you, because ALL of the 4 similar debts I am addressing initially via CCA letters go back before 2007 ... all between '01 and '04. I assume your remark applies equally to all. A quick clarification please: You commented particularly strongly a couple of days ago that I should SAR Link as well as CCA them. This was in order to stay on top of things given the bad behaviour that you and others have pointed out loudly is routine for them. 12+2 equals this coming Tuesday, when I presume their silence needs to be marked formally with a Failure To Comply letter despite their interim response advising that it could take 30 days to get papers from the original creditor. I am unclear where a SAR fits in to the timeline ... ... wait and see if 12+2 generates anything? Or see if they come up with anything from the original source after all? or SAR asap anyway to get ahead of the game? Or something else?? As small(ish!) an amount as £10 is, and as happy as I am to spend it when sensible, it does have to come out of a fairly shallow pocket.

I think possibly not both at the same time .. Letter from Rockwell received yesterday advising that they, not Fredrickson, are now administering matters for Arrow Global ... Letter from Fredrickson today advising that they are no longer "instructed in relation to this account", also returning my CCA fee and advising to contact Arrow Global direct. Both letters dated the middle of last week so 6 and 7 days old when received. Seems that Fredrickson passed it back to Arrow for whatever reason, who then placed it with Rockwell ... But anyway .... Thank you for the steering, I will have it in the post to Arrow Global today. Oh, and you had me scratching my head with "XXA" for a good few moments . Just when I was starting to feel a little smug reckoning on knowing most of the acronyms that get bandied about, along comes XXA! Then it dawned. And then the foolish-factor rose a little further a few moments afterward as well upon realising relative positions on the keyboard

Firstly, thanks to you and to Dodgeball for the most interesting exchanges on points of interpretation ... I have discovered that if I hold on to my ears tight enough I can manage to stop my head spinning for a while ... If dates are still at all relevant in that context, I can confirm that all is pre-2007 ... it has been Link all the way from 2004 when they bought the debt, and I don't know without looking just when the original account/agreement was entered in to but it would have been some years before then ... guessing mid-late 90s right now. But anyway, regarding the quoted words ... I should SAR Link? Now? Or await outcome of current CCA request? Seeing the very bad taste that everyone seems to have about them I want to be prepared.

Should have that for you shortly ... I have used Experian in the past and so renewed my membership briefly to check. We have moved house in the meantime, and when I updated the details to show this so that the Report would pull that in too for a complete picture, the content didn't update to include it and still hasn't ... so I have complained and am waiting for the loose ends to be tied together right now. It also has me missing from the electoral register because it thinks I am at the old address but can't find me there! I can tell you however that from the info held there relating to the old address, and therefore 5 years out of date now, this debt was not shown ... presumably having dropped off on grounds of age despite not being settled. I'm assuming therefore that it won't be on the updated Report either when my current address is incorporated, but am waiting to see for sure. In fact NONE of the debts from my other thread that we are dealing with separately now are shown on that old-address Report, except for the older of the two mortgage-shortfall debts. The newer one of those two has occurred since we moved so wouldn't appear before then anyway but would be showing against the new address, another reason how I know that Experian isn't updating my report. They say that after adding/changing an address, the next log-in will see info for that address included also ... hmmmm ...

Crossing in the post with mine to Rockwell yesterday, I have received a letter from Fredrickson this morning returning the £1 PO and advising/confirming they are no longer involved and have returned the account to their clients Arrow Global to whom I should make a direct request. Is there any reason not to do so given the involvement of Rockwell now and my letter to them yesterday?

Dodgeball: Not rambling, sharing knowledgeable insights - for which I thank you

Indeed yes, and that was felt likely to be the case with others given there also hence the strong urgings to CCA them all and see what might be discovered! That was also the place I first became aware of the phrase "cash-cowed". Being unfamiliar with the handling of debts at this level I did what I believed to be the *right* thing in the past and made repayment arrangements that have just run since ... seems to be the dictionary definition of the term! Thank you for the input, it is appreciated.

The follow-through on that is appreciated, Dodgeball, thank you. I am far from knowledgeable in these matters though learning, and value greatly the advice and guidance I have received on the few occasions I have needed some sharper focus. In this case it is simply (?) an information gathering exercise just now, as with help from others here I am firstly establishing the legitimacy/enforceability of a number of debts before then taking appropriate next-steps. I am not getting any younger, and need to address various personal matters including more debts than I would wish to have at this time. Legitimate debts will be the subject of approaches regarding settlement, whereas should any be found to be dubious a little further attention will follow.

Thank you for the further clarifications, from which I understand that original Agreements do indeed convey entitlements to subsequent owners also. In fact this appears on the surface to go against clear advice to the contrary given on another thread that I came across at lunchtime, hence my need to make sure one way or another as different actions would be suggested by each. I have spent much of the past hour trying to find that earlier post again in case it was considered appropriate to add a note there in order not to misdirect others now too, however with no success at all in this maze. And in case it needs to be said, I have no wish to duck legitimate debts. I have been strongly urged however in the thread linked at the top of my opening post, to establish that the numerous debts that I want to address differently now in retirement are all in fact legitimate/enforceable ones .. CCA letters were/are appropriate steps. Again, thanks for the clarification.

Thank you for the strong consensus, 12+2 it will be. But interestingly .... I am now aware that the debt was actually purchased from the original debt-holder a high street Bank, not being managed on their behalf. From further deep-seam mining at the CAG coalface since lunchtime I believe the following to be true under those circumstances. Can someone confirm my logic, or correct it if appropriate? - My relationship/liability in that original regard ceased with the on-sale of the debt, and therefore no longer exists nor can be resurrected. - I do not have a contract with the DCA, who at one point simply introduced themselves and required a payment plan. They will not therefore be able to provide a relevant CCA in response to my request anyway as none exists. - Any CCA copy that they may pass-through from the original debt-holder per their present letter will be meaningless as it does not apply to dealings between the DCA and me. - They therefore do not have an enforceable position. And just a thought, but if those are correct am I entitled to reclaiim the cash-cowed payments that I have been making, on the basis of coersion by omission, or misrepresentation perhaps? Or is it one to chalk up to experience?

Thank you, Brigadier ... that will be in this afternoon's post.