Ah I see. When I saw it on ch4 news I assumed when it said they'd lost their contract, that it was all over for a4e. Which it should be really, I don't understand how they can continue to operate at all given the circumstances.

I know this is an Ingeus thread but as I was job searching today I came across an ad for an A4E Advisor, that was only posted today. I can't post the actual link because my post count is too low but here's a c+p of the first part - Date posted: 17/05/2012 12:17:37 Job reference: Totaljobs/A4e00474 Contact: A4e Recruitment Role Overview Our specialist Capacity & Resilience Advisors plan a programme of flexible and tailored support, including appropriate support to build capacity and resilience, pre and post placement. Working on our new Work Programme contract, you will consistently guide and advise customers who have complex barriers to work through their personal journey into sustained employment, acting as a single point of contact for the customer. You will provide a broker specialist support from statutory partners and other relevant organisations whilst all the time empowering, motivating and supporting customers to move into sustainable employment. Hang on a minute, NEW CONTRACT???? Didn't the news report only 2 days ago that despite A4E being found not guity of fraud (which is a WTF moment in itself) That they had lost their contract to provide w2w?? Have they managed to procure another ticket on the gravy train already? In just 2 days!?!?! Unless this is some sort of error- which is unlikely due to the wording, something very naughty- which is likely due to their shady history, is going on here.

Interesting indeed! I'd say paragraph 40 is the key to the downfall of these vampires - The information you will need to retain for each job must include: • Whether the job is employment or self-employment; • Job Title(s); • Job start date(s) and if applicable End date(s); • Start and end date(s) of the Sustainment Period(s) • Working pattern/Shift pattern; • Employer/company name and full address; • Employer contact name; • Full business telephone number and e-mail address of employer contact; • Participant Contact Details; • Claimant Group; • Payment Group; • Participant Consent to contact Employer (please see Generic Guidance Chapter 5 of the– Evidencing / Validating Payments for information on participant consent); and • An employee identifier such as works or payroll number. • Optionally, you may also include the employer contacts full mobile telephone number. So, as long as people stick to their guns and make it perfectly clear that no matter what they try to shaft you with, you will absolutely NOT sign that data waiver, they are on to sweet FA and hopefully will just leave you alone.

Surely there must be an authority that regulates these people that they must answer to? Making a complaint to Ingeus, about Ingeus obviously isn't going to get anywhere, that's a given.

That is whats most frightening, I'm assuming 'results' doesn't just mean getting someone into work, but getting them 'off' benefits. If they have a client they think is unlikely to gain employment I have no doubt they would use unscrupulous methods for applying sanctions in order to get those 'results' and the most vulnerable people are going to be sitting ducks. Its quite disgusting that the JCP are taking a back seat and giving them enough rope to hang themselves, how many people are going really suffer at the hands of these reptiles in the mean time?

Thanks for the quick response, I actually did record, as I did the initial introduction meeting. I didn't openly disclose the fact I was recording but the device was noticed (although not mentioned) on my first encounter, this was a different advisor although I'm sure this would have been passed on to advisor I saw this time around. Here's the thing though, you say they are making empty threats but, my point is I've been asked to complete an 'application tracker' which details all of the jobs I'll have applied for up until my next appointment, they ask for specific employer details like name, contact number, job id or soc code (if they are on directgov) this task has been marked mandatory, no specific figure was placed on the amount of jobs I had to apply for but it would be in future appointments. I was also told that job searches would be done at my appointments and if vacancies were found that I had not applied for then basically I'd get sanctioned. This is the problem for me, when my appointment is being arranged they can just stick down whatever they like as being mandatory and if I don't comply I'll get shafted, if they find something I've missed, I'll get shafted whether I've recorded the meeting or not.

Ok, so here's my problem with this outfit - I've had an initial introductory meeting with them, didnt sign any waivers, didn't give them a copy of my CV. Attended a second appointment with them to go over 'how they can help me' well, long and short of it is I'm going back for a CV overhaul workshop- which was optional but I don't mind sprucing up my CV to be honest, and a mandatory 'Effective Jobsearch Methods' workshop. Towards the end of the meeting with my advisor I was given an application tracker to fill in for my next appointment, my advisor also attempted to give me a target number of jobs that I had to apply for before i went in again. I imediately said that I wouldn't be party to having targets set for me as the conditions of my JSA are a contract between me and the DWP and would only deal with my jobseekers agreement with the DWP. Now the advisor didn't actually ask me to change my agreement, but specific targets were mentioned and I said that its unfair to place specific targets on something I have no control over, ie available jobs. The advisor said they wouldn't put it on this time but future meetings would have targets like this set for me. They said they had no intention of trapping me in a situation where sanctions could be applied to me for not conforming, but if I fill out this application tracker (which has been deemed a mandatory requirement) hand it over to the advisor and they then do a job search and find a job that I haven't applied for myself, I can have sanctions placed on me. I'm really worried that they will basically just put anything they want down as a mandatory requirement for my appointments and if I don't adhere then boom, sanction applied.