Hi, I would greatly appreciate a bit of advice. Having previously naively paid PCNs many years ago in NHS car parks where I have worked , in recent times I have wised up and appealed multiple tickets successfully. I am currently awaiting an NHS car parking permit from the Hospital I am working at, but I have been advised there may be a long delay. There is no public parking space in the area and I live to far away to take public transport. I have had a few PCNs that I have provisionally appealed against on grounds of Empark not owning the land and the charge being disproportionate to losses incurred (am awaiting the outcomes of the appeals). I have previously appealed on these grounds multiple times and always been successful either on initial appeal or at the POPLA stage. I note that some companies have started quoting recent appeals that have been rejected on such grounds to try and deter the appeal, however POPLA still seem to continue approving appeals on these grounds. My query is, can a private parking company make a larger case against someone for multiple PCNs, or is each PCN taken on a case by case basis? Many Thanks

Just a few things to update on. My partner found out the claim form was genuine. She spoke to APCOA who refused to discuss the claim, and advised they had passed it onto the DR+ (although I'm puzzled as to how the solicitors of APCOA can threaten us with court action when they don't even own the land). She raised the issue with her hospital car parking department/in conjunction with the hospital's legal services. The stated that once a parking offence is committed they transfer the responsibility to APCOA. However they were sympathetic to the fact that £140 a ticket is ridiculous and the current outcome is that they will do what they can to reduce the charge. However they implied that we couldn't justify just paying the face value of parking tickets given the number of repeat offences. To my frustration my partner does not feel like fighting this all the way, and whilst she doesn't want to pay £140 a ticket, she is considering paying a reduced charge (if they offer this); I'm working on convincing her not to do this. I am still waiting to hear what they are going to want us to pay. Should we not be happy with this, what is the probability that if this went to court, we could get off just paying the face value of the tickets?

Thanks for all your help (and thanks to everyone else as well). I will keep the forum posted as to how this pans out.

You are correct, the claim form is on behalf of Apcoa (there is no mention of DR+ on it). My partner spoke to Apcoa on Friday, who advised that they have passed the issue onto DR+. DR+ then said that if the amount said on the claim form is paid, that particularly ticket issue won't go to court (however the multiple other tickets just haven't got to court proceeding stage yet, they said that to avoid it we need to cough up the other 3 grand or so to avoid this). APCOA and the hospital car park team are aware that the RK is not involved with this case. I understand the mistakes made by my partner, and know that the best result we can get is to pay off the losses sustained by the NHS trust from the lack of parking tickets (at best this would probably be the value of the tickets themselves, however I guess the trust to claim damages per ticket, I'm not sure how they could justify £140 per ticket). She is going to check on monday if the claim form/court summons was in fact valid, and then speak to APCOA to start the appeals process for the other tickets. AFAIK the court summons issue is sorted for that one ticket as she has paid the charge.

Apologies, I should have specified that in the start, I didn't think it was relevant who the RK was, as it is whoever is driving the car that is responsible. The close relative was initially worried about these letters, but as my partner and I thought you could ignore these from the start, we just kept picking up the letters from the relatives house as they stacked up. However, not until last week was anything a real threat IMO. Does my relative have to do anything, or can my partner and I proceed as aforementioned (my partner has already taken responsibility by paying the claim form off). Also, she is in the process of changing the RK to her own name (something she should have done before to save some of the hassle).

RK is a close relative, but my partner was using the car when the tickets were issued (she essentially is the primary driver). The fine is essentially my partner's, the matter has not really gone away. As the RK is a very close relative, either of us paying would be the same result principally speaking. My partner spoke to DR+ who stated that she needed to pay the amount on the claim form to stop court action; she then asked how much else is in arrears to which they stated 20+ tickets at £140 each.

Thanks. Do we need to send these arguments to DR+, APCOA, the legal department of the hospital (or all three)?

Bank states we need to ask the debt collectors to give the money back, if they refuse then the bank has some sort of process (partner will hopefully try today). @LiverPoolCarePathway: because we throw away most of the DR+/APCOA documentation (also as my partner was not the registered keeper of the car at the time, most of the stuff did not come to us directly); I can't actually find the ticket/APCOA reminder/DR+ documentation for the claim form in question (likely thrown away), and I have 19 current DR+ demands for each ticket, but none for that date (that doesn't mean to say that it is not valid, as my partner throws away most of the demand documentation as aforementioned). As this is before POFA, does it make it harder to defend? (Most of the tickets are post-2013 however)

Thanks, the other issue is that my partner is not the registered keeper of the car (at the time of the tickets), will this affect anything? Also, I was looking at a similar case: http://www.penaltychargenotice.co.uk/private-land-enforcement/court-cases/court-cases-for-private-parking-tickets/ Look at the case of NHS Aintree vs. Perera; he HAD a parking permit but knowingly parked on a double yellow 25 times and owed 2 grand after ignoring the parking charge notices. This in some ways is a similar case to mine. The judge ruled in favour of Perera, however I would like to point out the following: He argued that he had paid for a parking permit, and this coupled with the fact parking in the yellow line did not cause any financial loss for the hospital, meant that there were no damages that he owed. In our case, my partner did not have a permit and allegedly did not pay for a parking ticket i.e. She did not make any effort to fix the damages (unlike Perera who had a valid permit). If this went to court and this was conceded, could the judge still make us pay £140 per ticket, or would it be based upon the damages sustained by the NHS trust (which would essentially be the cost of the parking tickets, and not any further penalties). Also, couldn't the NHS trust argue that the damages per ticket is £140 as the losses sustained by the trust include the amount they pay APCOA to chase up parking tickets as well as the value of the parking ticket itself? Unfortunately the courts aren't open today: It should be noted that one the claim form the claimant is APCOA parking, as they are not the landowners does this render this claim form redundant? Thanks (I know you cannot 100% accurately predict what a Judge will say, as anything is possible)

Just realised PM Doesn't work as I don't have enough post counts. I have the following questions: 1. So my first course of action would be to check if the claim form is legit (I assume it probably is as it has a stamp, a barcode and advice from the HM Courts and Tribunals service). 2. The next course of action would be to check if APCOA have actual evidence regarding the 20+ parking tickets, would you recommend contacting APCOA about this? 3. With regards to admitting liability, hospital workers generally have a strict code of being honest apparently, so I doubt my partner would deny the tickets completely. Thus, how would we approach writing to the Risk and legal dept.? 4. Further to the above, should APCOA have good evidence and my partner admits liability, are you saying in the worst case scenario all she owes is the actual face value of the parking tickets? 5. Does the fact that she has paid the value on the court summons made her open to further attack by DR+?

By debit card. SM, thanks for your reply buddy, I will PM you. All the help is greatly appreciated guys.

I have tried to freeze the payment, but unfortunately it has gone through. My partner's bank has advised that they can try and claim it back however, we need to ask DR+ to give it back first, and if they disagree then we have to go through a dispute of claims process. As this payment has gone through, will this leave me with a diminished defence if future claims orders are sent? I have read the stickies but am still not clear as to what argument I can use in my defence?

So what you're saying is that their claim of taking me to court is rubbish? If I get another one of these (and I suspect I will be getting a few), should I ignore or respond? They attached guidelines written by the HM courts and tribunal service (is this basically more rubbish to increase the validity of the threat?). Not sure what my next course of action should be. Do I sit it out and ignore everything so far? Or do I need to speak to the hospital and build a case just in case it is taken to court?

Done!

Sorry done as pdf, the APCOA debt collection letter is attached in this one (NB: 20+ for different tickets as this one). Claim form in the one before.

Claim forms from the court and the APCOA debt collection forms are attached: The case you have linked seems interesting. What were the crunch reasons he didn't have to pay? Also he only had two tickets, we have 20+ Thank you

Thanks for your reply. Sorry to sound dense but this is my quandary: 1. The department that deals with car parking has essentially said that they directly use APCOA/debt collectors to claim the money, and that we definitely have to pay. Is there any legal documentation that would contradict what they are saying? 2. Should I get another court order, do I write a letter that essentially states that the matter of the debt collection is between my partner and the hospital she works at? But surely the reply to this would be that the hospital has given them permission to collect the debt, thus they are well within their rights to ask for this money? 3. Meanwhile I am getting monthly reminders from APCOA for each of the parking tickets (20 at a go for each ticket). Do I respond to these or ignore until another court order arrives through the post? Many Thanks

Thanks for you replies. The claim form is signed by GPB solicitors. My partner has unfortunately paid the amount said on the claim (in a panic). Unfortunately she also asked them how much she owed in total (was told £3000), and said she could not afford to pay it all, and they advised a payment scheme could be set up. Thankfully I prevented her from paying off the rest of it. I want to know what my options are now. The claim forum has been paid for (unfortunately). We are still receiving lots of payment notices through the letter box. My partner spoke to the hospital, who advised that they have given permission for APCOA to claim the debts. They said that there is no excuse for not paying for a parking ticket, even if you are in a rush to get to work, and that we have to pay the fines. My worry is that it is just a ticking time bomb and we are going to get served a shed load of claim forms for the rest of the cash (especially as my partner has made a school boy error of directly speaking to debt collectors and essential conceding the debt over a phone call). In the worst case scenario, do you think it is possible to just pay back the original value of the parking tickets? (the tickets were £30 each, but now the fine per ticket is £140). Any advice appreciated, Thanks

She has spoken to the security department in the hospital, who advised they cannot do anything and that she has to pay. I'm not sure who would be in charge of this sort of problem. Should I find the owner of the land has not given permission for APCOA to prosecute, what would be the next stage? What would I actually write in my defence statement?

The issue is I am not sure what grounds I am appealing it on specifically. And from you experience do you think this could be defended successfully? Also, two other queries: 1. the date on the Claim form does not match any of the dates on APCOA letters received, does this render the claims form irrelevant? 2. Could I pay the amount on the claim form, and ignore the £3000 requested by the debt collector? Thanks

Hold that thought. I have just received a claim form through the post. It has the county court stamp, with a date of service, with guidance from the HM Courts Tribunals and Service. It states the amount owed is £149.00 (including legal costs). It states our options are to pay the money stated (via the claimants solicotors) or to accept the service of charge. Now we have a two options as I can see: 1. Pay the £149 and ignore the other parking notices. 2. Pay £3000 as per the debt collectors full demands Just a few more questions: 1. Has my partner shafted herself by calling the debt recovery service? (this seems to be a big no no reading previous posts) 2. Reading through the forums, it appears that a parking company cannot enforce fines if they are governing land that is not owned by them. i.e. a hospital. http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=83168&pid=868102&mode=threaded&start=20#entry868102 This post suggests that as the hospital my partner works for pays APCOA for a security contract they can't take legal action in their own name. I have had a look at the POPLA appeals page. Unfortunately as we did not appeal earlier we have no appeals reference number. Looking at the grounds for appeal I don't think we meet any of the criteria. However, do APCOA have the right to enforce a fine that is significantly greater than what was originally owed? Desperate for advice, as I guess we are going to have to decide what to pay and when by the end of today. Thank you

Sorry, my information is coming from my partner who has the letter (I don't physically have it in front of me) so I apologise in advance. It seems that the letter is from APCOA's solicitors for ONE of the tickets (bare in mind there are around 20). The letter states we should indicate are preferred date for a hearing at a county court (with some dates stated) and it is signed by the solicitor. The fees indicated on this letter are in the region of £300. She phoned up the debt collection agency who stated that we owe £3000 for all the tickets together. I'm not sure what to do. Obviously I cannot ignore this, but I don't really now how I can appeal this specifically. OVer the the phone the debt collectors have threatened legal action (but this has only been represented for one ticket to date). Thank you

It is a summons from a county court, however there is no stamp...

It is from Debt Recovery Plus. What are the chances of defending this without going to court? And if it did go to court is there any chance of defending it? (my partner's only argument would be that she was working in A+E and a result of minimal parking available at the hospital she had to park anywhere (to put patients first). Many Thanks

Hi, My partner works in a hospital and often has to attend emergencies. Unfortunately she has accrued 20 parking tickets this year from APCOA. Judging from advice from the internet, we decided not to pay as they are a private company, and it appears from advice on this and other forums they cannot enforce payment. We received multiple threatening letters from APCOA, but ignored them based upon the above advice. Today we have received a court summons from APCOA threatening us with court action if we do not pay the fine (now accrued to £3000). I just wanted to know what the options are. My partner has spoken to the NHS hospital she works at who stated they cannot help us with this. Can I ignore this? Or do I need to pay up?