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Stumble On

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  1. Stumble On
    Nope - I'm not running Bio Diesel or anything like that. The car has been run pretty lightly and normally since I bought it and had 2 oil changes in the past 12 months with Ford's recommended oil. Only 11,000 miles driven since December 2009. I think my only option now is to sell it as "spares or repair" to someone who knows what they're doing.
  2. Stumble On
    This is what is ridiculous to me as a complete layman. How can so many people be suggesting that Ford screwed up somehow, yet they can get away with it? Sure... but they're essentially turning away the work now, which leaves me pretty stuck, doesn't it? Going elsewhere would put me back at square one in terms of costs. Besides, I'm not sure how many experienced mechanics out there (who have yet to come across this particular issue) would have the humility to declare a Ford Focus to be a challenging fix. It's not the most exotic of cars! In other online discussions I've read about people getting the same treatment from Ford themselves - a failed fix, then a diagnosis of "new engine required". So I don't think it's a simple case of incompetence, if taking it to the company that built the car brings about a similar conclusion. This thread itself and the ensuing engineer chest beating proves that the causes of the underlying issue are far from clear, yet everyone seems to reckon they'd fix it better than the next guy.
  3. Stumble On
    Hi Mothy As I understand it, Ford are required to make the TSB available to those that ask for it, but that doesn't mean they are required to go out of their way to provide the information unfortunately. It would make sense if it were provided with each replacement turbo as standard, but such a move appears to be too generous for the likes of Ford. A word of warning - even following the TSB to the letter is no guarantee. My car's oil flow at the turbo was measured at 3 times the recommended minimum when my 2nd replacement turbo was fitted, but it still failed a couple of months later. The people who supply the replacement turbos in the UK think that the engine should have been recalled by Ford. Make of that what you will. I have heard that other manufacturers have stopped making replacement turbos for this engine, as they were fed up with being blamed for repeated failures. Make of that what you will. Good luck!
  4. Stumble On
    Just called the UK distributor for Garrett. I mentioned I have a Ford Focus that has been through several turbos. Was immediately asked "1.6?". Paraphrasing - Those engines are problematic. They should have been recalled by Ford, but weren't because there are too many out there now. It will keep blowing turbos due to carbon build-up, it doesn't matter what you do.
  5. Stumble On
    I don't understand. What is this referring to? Since the repairers have already tried to fix this twice, I was wondering if there are any specific issues I should ask them to investigate this time, beyond just "taking another look". Mis-fuelling? Injector seals? I have already discussed this 3rd failure with the repairers, who also discussed this with the Ford branch, and the official line so far is that the engine flush was insufficient. But this is just par for the course (allegedly) - sometimes the flush doesn't work no matter who is doing it, and it's my tough luck according to those who have seen the car so far. I haven't misfuelled the car and the previous owner, when asked a couple of weeks ago, didn't recall ever misfuelling the car. I don't know what else I could do to be sure.
  6. Stumble On
    Sure... I realise that getting any kind of satisfaction from Ford will be pretty much impossible. A family friend who has been in a similar position with a Peugeot advised me that I should just write the car off, sell it as scrap, and move on ASAP because these kinds of situations can get very depressing. Thanks for asking around for me. Are there any specific questions I should ask? Or will simply asking them to establish why the 3rd turbo has failed be enough? If they establish that the oil ways are blocked again, could I reasonably expect them to look for the causes of carbon build-up free of charge? Would I have to pay Garrett to test the turbo? I really cannot spend any more money on this car as things stand - it's been a month now, I need to buy another car for work and the costs so far on the Focus have already really messed things up for me financially.
  7. Stumble On
    So the theory is - - a leaking injector seal allows hot gas to escape, which heats up a certain area of the engine - this then "cooks" the oil that passes through this area - this cooked oil causes carbon build-up - this leads once again to blocked oil ways and turbo failure. Does this make sense to any of the more mechanically-minded forum members? It could certainly explain why my car's 3rd turbo has failed, even after an extensive engine flush and replacement of parts. And also explains why my 2 replacement turbos did not fail immediately, but instead they both failed after a couple of thousand miles' driving. Could it be that the problem isn't the fact that some of the original debris is still remaining after the flush (which is what Ford and the repairers are claiming), but instead that after replacing the turbo and flushing the engine, another 2 months of driving with an undiagnosed injector seal leak has caused enough carbon build-up to block the oil ways yet again?
  8. Stumble On
    I'll try and collect some links and quotes that I have found (my post count isn't high enough to put up URLs yet): Discussion of Injector Seal leakage in the 1.6 Focus TDCi leading to carbon build up, leading to turbo failure: w w w.ilexa.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=29874.0 [with thanks to OldGeezer]
  9. Stumble On
    It drives, but without a functioning turbo, so it struggles to get over 30-40 and decelerates whenever there is an incline on the road, so I consider it unsafe. Plus I'm concerned that driving with blocked oil ways will do further damage to the engine. I haven't driven it since the turbo went for a 3rd time (the beginning of August). Ford came and picked it up and dropped it back on August 9th, which is when they diagnosed it as needing a new engine. Since then it's been parked up. I don't really know what stage I'm at with the repairers. - They know that the turbo has failed again and they spoke to the Ford branch about the work they have done so far and are confident that they followed the correct instructions when fitting the 2nd turbo. The garage were genuinely shocked that the turbo has failed yet again. - They have received a few quotes for 2nd hand / re-conditioned engines (ranging from £800-£1500), but have not made any explicit offers to fix it for free or anything like that. They have also said they will ask a local breaker about the possible value of the car as a non-runner. - I have emailed details of the injector seal issue to the garage, to see if they'll investigate it.
  10. Stumble On
    Thanks Hammy. Just to keep everyone posted, after receiving details about the leaky injector seal issue from OldGeezer, I popped out to the car and lifted the bonnet. Lo and behold, the 3rd injector has a noticeable amount of shiny black slime around its base, when viewed from above. The other 3 injectors don't. It's by no means extreme, but it's certainly there and identifiable to my untrained eye. So now I'm wondering why neither the independent garage nor the Ford branch noticed or thought it worth checking. If Ford are advising customers to replace their entire engine when instead all that's needed are injectors, it would be pretty scandalous.
  11. Stumble On
    Thank you oldgeezer I have enough posts to PM now, so I have sent you a private message with my email address. I will also be able to contact the poster called Hammy mentioned up thread.
  12. Stumble On
    This is too confusing. I can see how the need for a system flush and change of pipes / filters is a known issue, since there is a TSB from Ford themselves which I have seen with my own eyes. How can I establish that the leaking injector seal should have been identified? This car has been seen twice by the same Ford branch in the past 6 months and injector seals have not been mentioned or identified as a problem. The independent garage also consulted a couple of other people in the trade who had dealt with turbo failures on the 1.6 Focus and none of them advised to check the injector seals. What are the signs of a leaking injector seal? Would they have been obvious to a trained mechanic going through the process of changing the turbo, removing the sump and clearing the oil ways? I've been told that there was no sign of diesel in the sump, which I understand is a sign of injector seal failure. I can't pay to fix the car - it's probably only worth about £2500 in a working state, and it has already cost me nearly £2000 in fixes. Any further work is bound to cost significantly more than £500. The bulk of my costs so far has been in parts. It seems my only hope of getting some kind of satisfaction here is by establishing that: a) Ford should have supplied the TSB with the first replacement turbo last December. b) Ford should have identified the root cause of carbon build up when investigating the failure of the first and second turbos. They made the car and supplied the replacement parts. What are their responsibilities with regards to informing customers of known issues?
  13. Stumble On
    Thank you for the info. The plot thickens. I asked the independent garage last week if there were any other possible reason for the buildup of debris in the system and was told that there wasn't. It was explained that there was just too much debris in the system despite the flushing out and replacement of pipes and filters, and the banjo bolts are so small that it only takes a tiny bit of remaining debris to starve the turbo of oil. If it's well known, why didn't the Ford branch advise me that this is the probable cause of the 3rd turbo failure? Instead they first claimed the turbo reworks weren't connected at all (they were), then they claimed the sump wasn't removed and the system wasn't flushed (it was), then they just said "you need a new engine". If it's a well known issue, why isn't it covered in the same TSB that details the process for flushing the system and replacing banjo bolts etc? Why didn't Ford advise the independent garage to check the injector seals when supplying the 2nd turbo and TSB? Ford inspected the car prior to the 2nd turbo being fitted and provided the instructions and parts for the fix. Is there any way to establish just how widespread and well known this issue is other than, as a poster upthread notes, "heresay"? Is it well known amongst Ford mechanics? Is there any way to establish this? It seems to me that the independent garage could claim that they were given incomplete advice by Ford themselves. Yes, first time around they demonstrated an incomplete understanding of the issue (and they acknowledge that), but by taking the car directly to the Ford branch for diagnosis and repair instructions, I would consider them to have taken the necessary steps to fix the issue. Thank you for your help.
  14. Stumble On
    Thanks for the reply. Yes - this is one of the main sticking points. I consider the independent garage to be straight up, but of course I'm wondering if they should have known about / researched the correct procedure for changing the turbo in December. From reading discussions online, I gather that some garages know about it, some don't. I agree that it would make sense to supply the TSB with the replacement turbos. It seems irresponsible not to. OK. I will try this. I have already written to Ford UK and received a "we have looked into the issue and our position hasn't changed" reply. The invoices from the garage both say "5w30 fully syn oil - 4ltrs £34". I gather that this is what Ford themselves use and recommend. Yes. This is my main problem I suppose. I can find a good half a dozen or so threads online with mechanics discussing problems with this engine and the process I've been through - 2 blown turbos, new engine needed. Ford's own mechanics also confirmed several other cases at their branch alone. I'm particularly annoyed that they tried to pin the blame on the independent garage first though, and changed their story so quickly when challenged. Ford's mechanics would have happily accepted £1500 from me to change the turbo yet again, I suspect. The process of flushing out the system as outlined in the TSB is apparently not foolproof. Debris can remain and block the pipes again, at which point it's new engine time. I never imagined when buying a car of this age that I could end up in this position. Thank you. I'll drop him a message. Any further input would be most welcome, of course. Is my car worth anything as it is?
  15. Stumble On
    No-one? Do I really have no options here?

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