ok guys, my appeal got rejected: ****************************************************************************************************** My letter to them: I would like to appeal for this penalty charge to be cancelled following 3 reasons stated below: 1. I have not got a chance to review the video for this offence yet as I am not based in London but from what I can recall, I underestimated the amount of space in front of the box and ended up stopping my car halfway on the yellow box. I was not sure how long my car was in the box but from the snaphot around 13:22:05 in the PCN shows that I was already out of the yellow box and maybe changing lanes. Moreover, I am very sure I was not obstructing any traffic on that junction. Since I was not obstructing any traffic and there is a good chance I did not stay too long in the box, I hope you will consider my appeal. 2. After reviewing some appeal cases at patasregistersofappeal.org.uk, I have found 3 appeal cases which was accepted and PCN was cancelled. These appealed cases are related to my PCN as they are also on the same penalty charge. I believe that the my PCN notice is also defective and non-complaint with statutory regulation based on the below appeal cases. • patasregistersofappeals.org.uk/statreg/case.aspx?caseref=2100628598 • patasregistersofappeals.org.uk/statreg/case.aspx?caseref=2100549287 • patasregistersofappeals.org.uk/statreg/case.aspx?caseref=2100498211 (If you can’t access the links above, search the 10 digit case number as shown at the end of each link at patasregistersofappeals.org.uk/StatReg/StatRegAdvanced.aspx) The reason why this PCN might be invalid (as quoted in the above appeal cases) is because: "The 'date of service' provision contained in paragraph 1(3) of Schedule 1 to the London Local Authorities Act 2003 ('LLAA 2003') does not apply to the 14-day and 28-day payment periods specified by section 4(8)(iii) and (iv) of the LLAA 2003, as it only applies to the local authority having a discretion to disregard representations received by them after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the Penalty Charge Notice in question was served (as is clear from a reading of paragraph 1(3) of Schedule 1 to the 2003 Act). By stating "If you fail to pay the Penalty Charge Notice or make representations before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of this notice, a charge certificate may be issued to you increasing the penalty charge payable to £180" the Penalty Charge Notice conflates the "28 day period" for payment which begins with the date of the notice in section 4(8)(iii) with the "28 days" for the making of representations which in fact only begin with the date of service of the notice in paragraph 1(3) of the 2003 Act." 3. The box junction at Euston Rd/Dukes Rd/Churchway does not comply with the provisions of the Traffic Signs Regulations & General Directions 2002. Please refer to the appeal case in the link below. patasregistersofappeals.org.uk/StatReg/case.aspx?caseref=211014019A From this appeal case, the following was the reason why this box junction does not comply with the regulations: “The Appellant's vehicle was travelling east along Euston Road and passed through the box at the junction with Churchway. At the west corner of Churchway the box markings do not reach the kerb as required by the regulations (diagram 1043/1044). It is perfectly clear from the diagram that this is a requirement; indeed it is emphasised by the inclusion of the words "kerb line" and an arrow pointing to the join. At the east corner, the corner of the box substantially overlaps the corner of the road. These variations are not permitted variants to the layout as described in the TSRGD.” ******************************************************************************************************* The reply from TFL rejecting my appeal: Notice of Rejection London Local Authorities Act 1990 to 2003 Thank you for your representation dated 2 August 2011 regarding the above penalty charge notice. I have considered your representation in accordance with the requirements of the above Act and regret to advise that you have not established grounds or suitable reason for the penalty charge notice to be cancelled. The reasons for the rejection are as follows: Please be advised that your vehicle was observed by a CCTV Enforcement Camera, stationary within a yellow box junction at the above location on 17 July 2011. I have noted your comments that you over estimated the amount of space in front of the yellow box junction. Also that you did not cause an obstruction. I have viewed the CCTV footage of the contravention and can confirm that your vehicle entered the box junction before the exit route was clear at 13:21:48. The vehicle stopped in the box junction from 13:21:54 to 13:22:02, and was stationary for a total of 8 seconds. Please note that entering and stopping in a box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles constitutes a contravention. I must advise you that it is the driver's responsibility to refrain from entering the box unction until it is possible to pass through it without stopping. If there is a vehicle already ahead of you in the box junction, you must wait until that vehicle has moved out and there is a free space for your vehicle to cross over the box junction. In reference to your comments regarding another appeal at PATAS. Please be advised that I am unable to comment on other PCN's as each case is judged on its own merit due to changing circumstances. I have also noted your comments that you do not feel that this penalty charge notice is valid due to the due to the payment periods specified. After further investigation, I can confirm that there are no errors in regards to the payment deadlines we have specified. You have also stated that this particular yellow box junction does not comply with the regulations in place. After further investigation, I am able to confirm that this box junction is fully compliant with the requirements set out within the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002. In light of this and upon viewing the CCTV footage, I am satisfied that a contravention occurred. I am therefore unwilling to cancel this Penalty Charge Notice. I have enclosed photographic evidence of the contravention, which clearly shows the vehicle in a stationary position within the yellow box junction. ******************************************************************************************************* Looks like they dont even bother reading the appeal cases and completelyignorant about it. I am not sure i should risk appealing as it will double the penalty to ~£130 unless anyone have a good advice for me on any solid grounds (unless u think the above reasons are already solid enough)i can appeal this to PATAS. Lost:doh:...any advice?

Cream70, thanks for pointing this out as well. Just send them a lenghty email with all the related cases you have mentioned. Hope they will cancel my PCN as clearly there are may reason my PCN is invalid...keeping finger crossed!

HI Cream70, Thanks for pointing out the defect on this this notice. I have looked thru all the appeal cases and below is the statement which explains why those PCN was cancelled. "The 'date of service' provision contained in paragraph 1(3) of Schedule 1 to the London Local Authorities Act 2003 ('LLAA 2003') does not apply to the 14-day and 28-day payment periods specified by section 4(8)(iii) and (iv) of the LLAA 2003, as it only applies to the local authority having a discretion to disregard representations received by them after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the Penalty Charge Notice in question was served (as is clear from a reading of paragraph 1(3) of Schedule 1 to the 2003 Act). By stating "If you fail to pay the Penalty Charge Notice or make representations before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of this notice, a charge certificate may be issued to you increasing the penalty charge payable to £180" the Penalty Charge Notice conflates the "28 day period" for payment which begins with the date of the notice in section 4(8)(iii) with the "28 days" for the making of representations which in fact only begin with the date of service of the notice in paragraph 1(3) of the 2003 Act." Can i use these cases as reference in my appeal to TFL?

Hi Crem, Thanks for your reply. I called TFL if i can view the video online but unfortunately they dont provide this option. DVD will cost £10. Making a trip to London is not an option for me at the moment and all you know i might end up with another unlucky incident like this Thanks for you advice thou, looks like i might end up paying for this Would it be worth giving an appeal a go stating that 'i believe there was enough same ahead and my car was halfway leaving the box which was no obstructing any traffic'? Only reason to have a yellow box is to avoid someone from obstructing traffic and in my case i clearly did not do that. Things are just getting too techincal about this yellow box after reading some of threads.

Hi , I received a letter for penalty code charge (£65) for the contravention code 31 yesterday. There are 2 snapshots included in the letter. The first snapshot at 13:22:05 ( shows just my car leaving) and i cant even see the yellow box for this snapshot. The second snapshot at 12:21:54 (taken earlier) shows my car is halfway thru leaving the yellow box. I believe i underestimated the empty space after the yellow box and my car was halfway in the box. I am pretty sure i was not obstructing any traffic.I was moving slowly and there might be good chance i stopped for a short while. Will this worth an appeal? I am in Basingstoke and dont want to make a trip all the way to London to view the video. Is this the right amount? Most of threads stated the charge is £60. Is there any admin fee ir the appeal is rejected? Any advice would be nice. Thanks.