So what do most people see?

^^^That's for failing to declare SORN. I asked about using or keeping a car on the public road while SORN - is there a single case where somebody has been sent to prison for this? What's the usual penalty?

I made a SORN declaration extra early this year for obvious reasons. I noticed on the acknowledgement letter it said that if the car is used or kept on the public road while SORN in place then I could be fined up to £5000 or even sent to prison. Does anybody know what the normal thing for people to receive who have been found to breach SORN?

I've written down some numbers of some motoring law solicitors - I'll do some calling around on Monday and hear what they have to say. Then Tuesday is really the crunch time - pay it or risk ruining my life. I am a gambler but I don't want to risk ruining my life over this. Crime of Moral Turpitude is a very much current way of describing any crime that discredits being able to be considered as having Good Moral Character in the US, and you'd be surprised nearly every crime short of a speeding ticket falls under that umbrella, to the best of my understanding this offence will be seen as that. Even immigration attorneys have trouble classifying CMTs but it hasn't been to do with homosexuality in over 100 years. My questions right now, that I understand nobody can answer definitively, but I'd like to hear what you think to the best of your ability: 1) It's been stated that just holding up two sets of photos saying one isn't mine and the other is, is not simply going to be enough to have the case thrown out. What compelling case, based on what we know so far, would be enough? Do we think that DVLA would win based on so far? 2) If I do pay it and that's my 'admission', what more can I expect if any? If they have the intention to prosecute me anyway for another offence then this is just games. Can I certainly expect a fine for using a vehicle while SORN in place and unpaid VE back to when it was SORN declared? Thanks

I PM them to you if you want to have a look to give your opinion on that. For obvious reasons I don't want to post them in public. It seems odd that they make no mention of what happened regarding the clamping - obviously I didn't pay for it and it hasn't been impounded.

It was in September that I first received a letter about it and immediately referred it to my MP. The photos are of such poor quality you can't tell much else about the VIN plate but the few numbers that are visible are contained in my VIN - but along with how many others? You can't see anything of the car or even tell what car it is, it's just a close up of the tax disc with a few numbers from the VIN showing. Thanks for all your support. If anybody reading happens to be a lawyer or hates the DVLA and is interested in taking it to the media then do PM me.

Yes the word prosecution has been mentioned numerous times by DVLA and the MP for the DfT addressing my MP. As far as I can understand this is a more serious offence than a simple speeding ticket to be proecuted for and hence a Crime of Moral Turpitude - which would severely impact immigration. This allegedly was clamped in April this year and the first I heard of it was a letter from DVLA in September demanding £169 for a S29 3A Offence. What further fines will follow if I do pay it, so I can work out if it would cost more to hire a lawyer or cover all the false fines. Is buzby saying if this does go to court, my only option is to seek representation? Because people in previous posts were saying that it's only a Magistrate's Court and so not so much. As for the VIN are you saying there'd be another photo taken of that which they have not provided? The photo that shows the false tax disc only partially shows the VIN whilst the rest is obscured by the tax disc. If the judge accepts their evidence, and you have nothing effective t counter I with, they'll win. What effective can I have to counter with so that they don't win as you say?

That sounds like such an arduous process that could run into the 000s to disprove this nonsense, when I already have so much else on my plate to deal with. Does anybody know from other cases where people have been fined for using an unlicensed vehicle on the public road if I just pay the £169 out of court settlement, will that be the end of it? I note it's carefully worded that this fine is for keeping or using an unlicensed vehicle on a public road. If I pay that will that then count as an admission of guilt and give them green light to lash on more fines for using a vehicle while SORN in place, displaying a false tax disc, etc. There could be no end to it if they decide that's an admission of guilt and have a field day with all the more fines they can get out of me. But like I say I just don't have the time for this. What I find even more disgraceful is that DVLA have kept this to themselves for 7 months, this means they've allowed a potentially cloned vehicle to be on the roads committing offences in favour of simply profiting by extorting me. This from an organisation that claims it is their goal to aid in the prevention of vehicle crime by ensuring accurate records of vehicle owners. There's not even any mention of the fact that they claim it was clamped - I never paid for any release and it obviously hasn't been impounded. You've stated about the VIN plate would they have needed to/would they already have a photo of the VIN that they haven't shown me? Even so it could have been copied as well, so what does that prove? Isn't the onus on them to prove I'm guilty rather than me to prove I'm innocent?

That leaves me a bit confused buzby, thanks for your reply. I agree how is me holding up photos saying that's not mine going to be any different to them holding up photos saying it is. So, I have a whole 3 days until the option to avoid court action expires. If there's any possibility this could result in a conviction then as much as it would sicken me I would have to simply pay the out of court settlement. You've said that this is going to require some fancy footwork, but the courts will only cover costs of up to £100 - a lawyer to do this fancy footwork is going to cost a lot more than that and the out of court settlement combined. So my options are 1 - risk my job and visa abroad with a conviction 2 - Spend way more than any out of court settlement and costs that could be covered hiring a lawyer to defend this and go through the trouble of taking the time out to consult and attend court 3 - pay the £169 OCS and allow these criminals to profit from their fraudulent and threat tactics, but at least not be hundreds or thousands more out of pocket or potentially lose my job/residency abroad. Since you've put cloned registrations in quotes I assume you mean that this is a catch all defence used by many who are guilty of their vehicle being involved in an offence, so they're not just going to say oh well that's that. No more plausible than suggesting that the clamping company staged it seeing as the only photo of the clamp is just a clamp on a wheel and confirms nothing of the car, while the photos of the car that don't show any clamp could have been taken anywhere anytime. I don't know if there was a bogus VRM - the only other photograph provided was a close up of a tax disc showing no other part of the car - that was obviously a forged tax disc, I know it's forged because it says the make and registration but the amount is incorrect, it says the duty paid on it is £190 but it only costs £150 to tax my car. They may have taken a picture of the VIN plate that they haven't shown me, but who knows this could have been fake as well. Please help.

Right, so the MP for the Department for Transport wrote back to me and ever so kindly offered an exceptional one off extention to make payment for this false claim by 30 November (5 days time). Today I finally obtain the photographs I've been asking DVLA and DfT for for the past 2 months and - it's not my vehicle! It's the same make and model and registration, the pictures are in black and white so I can't tell if the colour is the same but it looks off. I can tell it's not mine because in their photos there is a branding on the side of the car that is not on mine, and another branding that is somewhere else on MY car is not on the one in the photographs. Now, there's 3 photos - 2 showing the car and registration but not showing any clamp, or confirming the location or date, and the one that does show a clamp is just a picture of a clamp on the front wheel of a car and in this is the branding on the side of the car that I know isn't on mine. Firstly, I'm going to take photos of my car when the light is better - and they will be of significantly better quality than those provided by DVLA and in colour as I have nothing to hide. I'll also report this possibility of a cloned car to the police. I've already written back to my MP and the MP at DfT confirming this, but they take on average 30 days to respond. There's 5 days till DVLA come through on their repeated threats to prosecute me, what can I do? DVLA have never responded to me in 2 months. Is this significant evidence for me to prove that it's not my car or have they got enough evidence that it is? What else can I do to prove this? What else can I do to prevent this from going to court? As I say I honestly cannot afford a court case against me and the risk of a criminal record, the only thing that gets me through this is knowing that I'll live in a different country! It's pretty disgraceful that DVLA's only interest has been profiting from this allegation and they've had absolutely no interest in addressing this matter and presenting to me to give me a chance to respond as opposed to just their demands of "Pay up or we'll prosecute you!"

What is CPR? I've contacted DVLA and DfT several times for the photos and 'evidence' but no replies. I've been told there's some way of being able to get these from their website, the MP says it's quickest if I follow these steps myself but I can't seem to find any procedure for obtaining this on the DVLA site. Any leads anyone?

Agreed, but this is more than a parking offence, no? It is criminal proceedings by other's mention.

Any answers?

That concerns me more than anything. I feel I will now have to call them up tomorrow and much as I hate it pay it. I cannot lose my Green Card over something as ludicrous as this, even though DVLA are in the wrong, I can't risk it and I'd probably kill myself if that happened.

I've written to DfT and DVLA numerous times asking for the photos with no response. I've kept copies of the correspondence I've sent. However, my MP mentioned there was a process laid out on their website about how to obtain any evidence related that was easier for me to do than ask my MP to because of Data Protection. I haven't been able to find any such steps, can anybody point me in the direction of these steps?