I think those of us who did succeed threw everything including vague locus into our reps, but I suspect the strongest argument is about the complete absence of advance warning signs, which I noticed on a (rare) recent return to that road are still conspicuous by absence. I think road markings may be wrong too. And I can see no reason why you shouldn't ask for a shot showing your car in the bus lane, but if they do provide this, that's not enough to sink your case. If you have a chance to go back and take photos and re-check re warning signs, I don't think they'll want the adjudicator to see all that. Esp when they are no doubt asserting (or they will) that all the signage etc is lawful. It ain't.

In the light of all the mess TfL made of my representations (see previous long post), and of the grounds set out in my representations - mainly re imprecise location, and their failure to supply the information I asked for in the reps, I decided what the hell, I wouldn't just cough up but would appeal. Looking at the grounds of appeal, I am not sure I actually meet any of them. I was the owner, I was in control of the vehicle, and the police are not taking action. Which leaves me with the 'no breach' ground. I have to accept I probably was in the bus lane, but am not able to say whether the restrictions were properly signed, because I still don't know where the alleged contravention is supposed to have happened, and have not got the resources to go back and look, esp as I fear another ticket on the way! I can't believe the restrictions were properly signed, given that I and my passenger were v aware of need to be vigilant and v much on the lookout. Do I have the right to ask TfL for things like a diagram showing positions of all signs, together with photos of the signs? Or does the 'imprecise location' invalidate the notice and does the invalid notice invalidate the breach? HELP!

Further to previous posts re Broad Lane bus lane PCN On 29 March I received an enforcement notice dated 28 March, demanding £130. I telephoned on 29 March to ask how this could have been sent when I had still had no reply to my representations. The person I spoke to said that my email of 7 March had not yet been processed, and I should ignore the enforcement notice pending consideration of the reps. I then received a rejection letter (17 April) re my representations, see link below. I rang to ask why they were now saying I must pay £130 when reps were within 2 weeks and notice was issued on 24 February, not 19 February as their rejection letter says. Person I spoke to said quite right and she would take £65 in full and final payment if I paid now. I said no thank you, not yet decided what to do re rejection. She said she would get writer of letter to resend it with correct date and amount, was emailing him to that effect. The letter dated 17 April has finally told me where Broad Lane is ('in the Haringey area N15'). Not terribly helpful re precise location of alleged contravention. And they have not sent any of the stuff I said I required. (In reps I said I required notice to be cancelled “Failing that, I require all photographic and video evidence, evidence of approval and maintenance of the camera, and a complete copy of the relevant Traffic Regulation Order, with all amendments and schedules, by pdf at the earliest opportunity.”) http://www.4shared.com/office/j01GkydU/reps_rejection_170412_2.html I still haven’t received the amended letter with correct dates and amount. It gets worse. I then received a rather badly written and word-processed letter dated 20 April (three days after my representations were formally rejected). This letter also wrongly stated date and time of issue of notice as 19 February. It referred to my letter of 30 March (there was none) and said that the enforcement notice had been issued ‘as no representation was received’. I was offered as a ‘gesture of goodwill’ the opportunity to pay the reduced amount of £65 provided I coughed up by 4 May, and warned that ‘such leniency may not be practised in the future’. I haven’t got time or energy to scan and upload this letter at moment as want to get a post up soon, but will do it if anyone wants to see it. I rang TfL again. Told them this was a complete mess. How could I receive a letter rejecting my representations followed by another, with a later date, that told me I had made no representations?! A protracted conversation ensued, which began with the person I spoke to responding as if she thought the 20 April letter was related to the 17 April one, when I tried to point out that it seemed to relate to my telephone call of 29 March (insofar as it meaningfully related to anything). In the end she told me she understood my frustration. But the formal rejection could not be resent (though previous person had said it could be), so I must write in about it (she confirmed this included emailing). And that if I appealed I could cite all this in grounds for appeal. She said she didn’t deal with reps so couldn’t answer qs about why the info I had asked for had not been sent, or even referred to, in the rejection. She told me the failure to respond to reps earlier was because my email had not been scanned onto the system. She also confirmed that all calls were indeed recorded. I was very much starting to feel that I could not face prolonging this battle esp if doing so were to cost me a further £65. I am sure TFL are lying through teeth (as with Kidbroke) re lawfulness of signage etc, but am not going back to check, esp as I don't want another ticket. Was minded just to give up grudgingly. But am now so appalled by their incompetence that I can’t help feeling that I want to expose it, and that an adjudicator might feel moderately appalled as well. Advice would be appreciated. (HYMN AND MI - I have tried to PM you but it does not seem possible now to do so.)

Wish I could help you there, as I did exactly the same thing (diverting INTO bus lane), for similar reasons - thought I might be on wrong side of road if I went for the other option. When I went back to check (this was in 2010 but I bet nothing has changed), there were definitely no advance warning signs. I got ticket cancelled as a 'goodwill gesture'. I do hope you win your battle with the hire company but I don't know the legal ins and outs. I can't see how their paying can be taken as an admission of guilt from you, but I'm no lawyer. Good luck with it.

Ah, so TfL only responsible for major routes, is that right? So I'm sorry, Hymn & Mi if I misled you, I just assumed it was geographically determined. But still, how is a motorist meant to know what TfL mean just by 'Broad Lane' when there are so many? I'll try to have a look at Google streetview later.

As positive as I can be.

Sorry, my fault, can see it's sort of hijacking the KPR thread, should have started a new one, but just wanted to access help quick. Don't know now how to get it moved elsewhere.

Many thanks. Who should I email? The address for emailed representations? Presumably that will alert them to the fact that this is about a PCN, but perhaps it doesn't matter if it does. They still need to reply. Checked with my passenger re when/whether we might have been in which Broad Lane, and neither seemed quite right for the times we thought we left north London and arrived in south London. And in fact, with the one you have googled, there are now three possibles! Neither I nor my passenger is at all familiar with the journey (though we will be repeating it tomorrow [make that today!], last Sunday being a practice round for a more distant than normal golf match being played this Sunday), so wouldn't know either of the possible Broad Lanes by sight. Oddly we had had a discussion on outward trip re bus lanes and the need to be vigilant, and we both thought we had been! I had even said if in doubt I assumed any bus lane was 24/7. We will have to be ultra-careful on journey home tomorrow, may even try to take a different route, to avoid being caught again. Once again, many thanks for advice, I'll send email tomorrow, subject to advice re who to, and keep you posted re what I get back.

pcn0001.pdf If it hasn't worked this time, I give up. I uploaded (to UpYours), did URL link (not first time) and believe I have now inserted the link. If not, please advise what I am doing wrong....

Thought I had put in a link to the PCN. Trying again....

Hope this works

Sorry, don't understand request re Google link ? I really don't know which Broad Lane it is meant to be, but I am assuming the one in Hornsey - though that looks too tiny to have a bus lane in it. Could also be the one in the City, near Liverpool Street, my route took me close to both, I think. Am happy to upload the notice, can't quite remember how I uploaded before. As a link to "Up Yours" I think. Give me 20 mins or so.

Anonymising only because you never know who'd looking and seem to remember seeing advice to do that before. No offence intended!

Sorry. TfL. Can upload notice when I remember how, but will anonymise first.