Yep, that's right. As I said, we're happy for the council to deal with these: do the background checks and post notices etc. As I said, it's only where the council won't deal with the vehicles that we have a problem. As it turns out, talking to the council today, they will deal with the untaxed vehicles too. So, the only case where we would have to take action ourselves is when we want to get rid of a vehicle which has a SORN.

Yep, that's right. They are abandoned. We have no idea who owns them.

I think you're a bit mixed up. There are several classes of vehicle in question. I know who owns the remaining problem vehicles, and they have been informed personally. All other vehicles have either already been removed by the owners, or have been abandoned, so we can let the council deal with them. Has that cleared it up for you?

Yeah, I know what you mean. We did consider that, but decided it would be 'unco-operative'. Also, the problem vehicles would likely come back into the car park before you could say "tow truck".

Okay, I'm sorry, it's just you did seem to me to be quite angry, what with all the capital letters etc. Please bear in mind that I am just a normal member of the co-op: I got accepted to live there, paid £1 for a share, and now, along with the other 100 people who live there, I am joint owner (until I move out, when I loose my share). I just happen to have been elected Car Park Officer, after stong demand for action from the membership. If you have had any unfortunate experiences with my co-op, then I would be genuinely interested in hearing about it. I want to live in a nice place that acts responsibly. If you have a complaint then I really want to know so I can do something about it, or at least make sure the problem doesn't happen again. The Co-op is Sanford Housing Co-operative, New Cross, London SE14 6NB We pride ourselves in acting fairly and having good relations with our community. Please, if you've had a bad experience, let me know!

Okay, fair enough. If you don't want to talk about it, that's fine. It's just you were coming across as an angry nutter, and I thought it might be better to keep housing management discussion out of this tread. Sorry.

Also, I'm still a bit dubious about calling the DVLA into our yard :-/

everyone: Thanks for your opinions I think the way we are going to have to proceed from here is as follows: 1) Report everything as an abandoned to the council. Let them investigate and remove what they can 2) Call the DVLA on any remaining, untaxed vehicles 3) If that fails, fill in a V888, notify the owner/keeper, pay a solicitor etc and go through the courts if we have to. I'm just a little worried that the council/DVLA may not take the bus, as it's massive, and we will end up with the solicitor ball ache for that one. Thanks everyone

kiptower: Okay, I said I didn't want a flame war about co-op management. We are well aware of our rights, responsibilities and powers as a co-op, unlike yourself. However, if you are really interested in learning, I'd be happy to discuss it with you further in another, housing related thread.

Okay, sorry guys, I didn't want to start a flame war about the management process of a co-operative, or about road tax. The salient points are * The car park is private land, access is restricted by a locked gate * The tenancy does not grant residents the right to use the car park * However, the vehicle owners have been given keys to the gate * The tenancy clearly states that all members must abide by the rules and policies of the co-op, which may be amended from time to time by the Committee (This of course doesn't give us authority to remove cars, but it does negate any implicit licence to use the car park which may be provided by virtue of holding a tenancy) * We, the land owners, have decided not to allow two specific vehicles to be stored in the car park. * The owners have been informed of this by notice on the car, by a direct named and addressed letter, and verbally. * The owners have been given 28 days to remove their vehicle * We now want to get the vehicles removed However, we are a co-operative, ran by and for it's members. We are nice people. So, we don't want to * Call the DVLA if this would mean the car owner's going to get into legal difficulty * Call the DVLA if they are going to go sniffing around any other vehicles * Call the council if the owner's going to get stuck with a bill for removal * Take the member to court if it's going to endanger their tenancy * Take the member to court if they are going to get stuck with legal bills So, if we are forced to take action, we want to minimise negative impact *on the owners*. We also want to be able to inform the vehicle owners of the possible consequences for them, hopefully encouraging them to sort it out themselves Really, this all comes down to the original point: what's the right way of getting vehicles removed from private land?

Why not? Are you saying that if someone parked their car in your drive, and (for personal reasons) you find the colour offensive, you couldn't ask them to remove it? So why can't you say that your neighbour can park his car in your drive as long as it's taxed? Remeber, residents have no tenancy on a parking space. That land just happens to be owned by the co-op. But they don't have a right to use the car park in their tenancy, and also we do change our tenancies as I pointed out. Also, we only have one secure tenancy remaining from the mid 80's, and he keeps his car round the corner, not in the car park.

Oh, and we do occasionally change the terms of the tenancy. Essentially, we terminate everyone's tenancy and issue new ones. Of course we have to give notice of this, but I think that's only a month (although we normally give much more notice that that, at least six months).

Yes, we know who owns the vehicles, otherwise we would be confident that they were abandoned and let the council deal with it. As for the road tax issue, I think you misunderstood me kiptower. We are not requiring the vehicles are taxed. We are essentially making a decision on a case by case basis as to which vehicles we allow in the car park. The tax issue is essential an arbitrary criterion which we are applying to decide that. And as I pointed out, tenants do not have right to use a car park as part of their tenancy agreement. However they are very clearly obliged in their tenancy to abide by the policies of the co-op as determined by the Committee. The ultimate recourse of course would be to evict the member for breach of tenancy if they fail to do this, but we would be very reluctant to do this except in extreme circumstances (we normally only do in cases of nuisance). But to be clear, these people are our friends, and we are trying to this by persuasion. They are as a rule, useless hippies, who for example, bought a huge bus by mistake "to go to India in", and now don't know what to do with it. However, we are determined to reclaim the scrap heap at the end of the garden and plant trees there.

Wow, thanks for the quick responses. To clarify to situation slightly: The Committee of Management is the elected body which manages our co-op. Each house elects a 'house rep', which sits on the committee. All decisions are taken by vote by the house reps, apart from some more important decisions which are done at a general meeting, where every co-op member gets a vote. About 15% of co-op members are committee members. C.o.M. meetings are held in the houses and are open to all members. The Committee is very close to the general membership. Further, the tenancy agreement does say all members are bound by the rules and regulations of the Co-op, as determined by the Committee etc as described above. Car parking is not provided as a service or facility to residents in the tenancy (at least not explicitly). It is a gated area which is part of the land which is part of the co-op. It's basically part of the garden with cars parked in it. So I think we, the Membership (through the Committee), do have the ability to change the use of the area we call the car park. As for removing the vehicles, that's the tricky bit. As I pointed out, our main aim it to be fair (we are representing ourselves), and there is a strong mandate for action. However, our secondary aim is to be legal. To this end we wouldn't want to call the DVLA on an untaxed vehicle if the Committee agreed that it could stay (this is true of two of the vehicles at the moment, the Committee gave them an exemption due to their specific circumstances) So, we want to be both fair and legal. I'm pretty sure that the truly abandoned vehicles could be removed by the council no problems. I'm also pretty confident that most of the other vehicles could be served abandonment notices by the council and wouldn't get contested, so they too would get removed by the council. There really only remains two problem vehicles: * A huge old bus, no tax, B reg (so I believe it's mid 80's) * A SORN'd transit van We don't really want to call the DVLA unless we have to for the bus. As for the van: our 'management agents' (basically the people who help us do our accounting, not the people who manage the co-op), claim to have lots of experience with this sort of thing, and claim that you just need to give adequate notice. However, they are not lawyers. Also, they have a particular point of view. As I pointed out, we are a co-operative, owned and ran by it's membership. We really want to do things not only technically legally, but within the spirit of the law, and most importantly in a fair way. I suppose that's why I'm asking for your point of view, beyond the obvious legal reason. I'm interested in what, from your consumer activist point of view, is legal, reasonable, and fair. And remember, the membership has clearly mandated this idea (in fact all proposals actually originate from the membership). How do we protect our rights, as members, over this bit of land? Ultimately, what is the 'right' way to get these vehicles removed?

Hi, I live in a housing co-op (sort of a self owned/managed housing project) and we have a number of vehicles in our private car park which we want to remove. The Committee of Management decided that the car park should only be used by members of the Co-op, and that cars should be taxed (we only want to provide parking for people who actually use their cars, not for people to store them). Most of the vehicles are wrecks (flat tires, smashed windows etc), but some are in good nick. One has a SORN. We took some advice from our management agents and they told us we had to give 28 days notice of removal. We have gone to some length to warn people that we are going to remove these vehicles. We wrote a 28 days notice of removal and stuck it to all the vehicles, we took pictures of the notices, we sent a letter to every resident, and the proceedings of the management committee are published every month (which contained the various decisions leading to this point). This largely worked, and more than half the vehicles have been removed by their owners. However, some haven't. We are at the point now where the notices have expired and we want to get the remaining vehicles removed. Some vehicles appear abandoned (we can't identify the owner), some we know who owns them but they seem content to have them removed, and some the owners don't want them removing, but have made no formal appeal to the management committee. I understand that we are supposed to get the council to remove abandoned vehicles, but I'm not 100% convinced we have done everything required for the others. Can we get the council to remove the other vehicles too, against the owners consent? If not, how do we proceed? We are a housing co-op, so we of course want to be legal, honest and fair to our members. However, this has been going on for almost a year now (since the committee first made the decision), so it really is time we act. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated Thanks, Greg Here's a copy of the notice we put on the vehicles: Your vehicle is going to be towed away and scrapped! Official 28 Days Notice of removal This notice takes effect from when it is put on your vehicle (27th April 2010) You can avoid getting your vehicle scrapped by dong one of the following: Moving it somewhere else (off Sanford property) Getting the C.o.M. to give you a special exception Getting it taxed and road legal Why is this happening? People have been wanting to tidy up the car park for ages. The C.o.M. has repeatedly voted to take action about the disused vehicles in the car park. The C.o.M. decided that: The car park should be used for Members vehicles only (if you don’t live here, keep your vehicle elsewhere) The car park should not be used for large vehicles (over 3.5 tonnes). We don’t have room for big vehicles like the bus The car park should only be used for vehicles that are actually being used, not for storage. The C.o.M. decided that therefore vehicles in the car park must be taxed. This shows that they can be legally used on the road If for some reason your vehicle doesn’t meet these conditions, but you think you should still be allowed to keep it in the car park, you can ask the C.o.M. to let you. You can do this by coming to a C.o.M. meeting and raising it at the end, during Any Other Business. You could also write to the Secretary, however there is no guarantee the C.o.M. will agree. You can’t do that! Is this even legal? Sanford car park is private property. The House Reps, who are the C.o.M., set the rules for how we use the car park. However, vehicles cannot just be removed without warning. You need to be given 28 days notice. That’s what this is. This is a list of vehicles which are planned to be removed: The caravan - Doesn’t belong to a Sanford Member The bus (*REG NUM*) - Over 3.5 tonne White Renault van (*REG NUM*) - Tax expired 03/10 Blue Rover (*REG NUM*) - Tax expired 02/09 Blue Ford Scorpio (*REG NUM*) - No tax Black taxi (*REG NUM*) - No tax Blue Ford Transit (*REG NUM*) - No tax White Ford Transit (*REG NUM*) - Tax expired 12/09 I still think it’s not fair You can come to the next Members’ meeting and propose that the whole thing is called off or postponed. Otherwise: Vehicles will be removed on or after 1st June 2010!