I've just done a Google search for both:- "loan for disability riser chair" and "loan for disability wheelchair ramp" and there are a number of links to suppliers of each, some detailing loans and grants. I'm not sure that such commercial links are welcomed in this forum, but they are easily found on Google using the search parameters given above. You may also be elegibile for a loan item or a direct payment from your local authority. Have a look at: http://www.livingmadeeasy.org.uk/scenario.php?csid=195

No problem, John. Happy to help. Let us know what happens. As I said in my PM, notwithstanding whether Motability give permission in writing for the use as described by your sister-in-law, I very much doubt that such use with a zero rated disabled RFL would be legal. Falling foul of RFL legislation can turn out to be VERY expensive indeed, so at the minimum your SIL should consider taxing the vehicle as PLG.

From message 21 above, quotes from Motability emails as promised: 8> 1] Subject:* Permitted Use Of Motability Vehicle - Customer Reference Number XXXXXXXXXXXX *From:* *To:* *Date:* Wed, 2 Jun 2010 14:57:42 +0100 Dear Mr XXXXXXXX Thank you for your email dated 1 June 2010 regarding the response in the Lifestyle Magazine about the permitted use of a Motability Vehicle. I can confirm that the information given as follows: 'A Motability car may only be used by, or for the benefit of a disabled person. However, the disabled person does not need to be present when it is used. Any nominated driver may use the vehicle for routine activities, as long as the disabled person derives an identifiable benefit from it. Using the car to travel to work to bring home an income, or to go shopping, are both examples of how driving can be beneficial to the customer, and are therefore allowed.' is correct. The vehicle is properly insured when used in this way providing it is only driven by named drivers on the Motability Scheme Insurance. I hope this clarifies the situation. If you require any further assistance please contact our Customer Services Department on 0845 456 4566. Yours sincerely Lorraine Swift Customer Contact Advisor Customer Contact Services City Gate House 22 Southwark Bridge Road London SE1 9HB T: +44 (0845 455 4566) E: correspondence@motabilityoperations.co.uk 8> 2] Subject:* Use of a Motability vehicle that displays an exempt road fund license - Customer Reference Number XXXXXXXX *From:* *To:* *Date:* Mon, 7 Jun 2010 09:09:07 +0100 Dear Mr XXXXXXXX Thank you for your email dated 4 June 2010 requesting written confirmation of the use of a Motability vehicle whilst it is taxed with a zero rate disabled road fund license. I understand that you have recently spoken to my colleague Patricia about the use of a Motability vehicle when displaying an exempt road fund license. I can confirm that when displaying a road fund license that is exempt, the vehicle must be used by or for the disabled person, providing the disabled person is deriving an identifiable benefit from its use. Further information about road fund licence exemption can be found by visiting Website of the UK government : Directgov. I hope this clarifies the situation for you, however should you have any further questions, please email again or contact our Customer Services Department on 0845 456 4566 and we will be happy to help. Yours sincerely Louise Simmonds Customer Contact Advisor Customer Contact Services City Gate House 22 Southwark Bridge Road London SE1 9HB T: 0845 456 4566 E: Correspondance@motabilityoperations.co.uk 8> 3] *Subject:* Use Of Motability Car: Customer Reference Number: XXXXXX *From:* *To:* *Date:* Tue, 8 Jun 2010 09:59:43 +0100 Dear Mr XXXXXXXXXXXX Thank you for your reply email dated 7 June 2010 to my colleague Louise acknowledging receipt of her email. I am sorry that Louise has been unable to reply to you directly. The information that you provided in your email regarding the use of your Motability car by your drivers who are named on our insurance with RSA Motability, whilst displaying a road fund licence that is exempt is correct. If you do have any further questions regarding the Motability Scheme or use of your car, please feel free to contact our Customer Services Department on 0845 4564566 or use our website www.motability.co.uk . Yours sincerely Shelley Halkes Customer Contact Advisor Customer Contact Centre City Gate House 22 Southwark Bridge Road London SE1 9HB T: +44 (0)845 4564566 E: correspondence@motabilityoperations.co.uk 8> The text of the email reply from DVLA re road fund licence use is already uploaded at message number 20 in this thread.

Happy to copy/paste them here for you, John. That said, from the info you have given, I find it strange that Motability have OK'd your sister-in-laws use of the vehicle. You don't mention any use for or on behalf of the disabled person, so I'm puzzled that this is allowed under the Motability T&C's. In fact, in my initial telephone conversation with the lady from Motability legal dept, she gave an example of excluded use, describing use by a disabled person's son who was not living with the disabled person, and who was simply using the vehicle as his own personal transport. To me, that was a no-brainer. If I were her, I would be inclined to get that permission in writing from both Motability and Royal & Sun Alliance. Even then, I think if the car has a zero-rate 'disabled' road fund licence, the use quoted doesn't seem to stack with use under the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994. I'll cut/paste the correspondence in a separate message below. I'll include the names of the Motability staff, so that folks have a point of contact.

Arf! 'Dept' Recovery Services, eh?! Recovery of Ethical Departments, mayhap?

Reply received from DVLA, and as suspected, it is somewhat nondescript:- 8> Dear Mr XXXXXXXX Thank you for your email received on 4/6/10. Your email reference number is XXXXXXX. The exemption from vehicle excise duty (VED) for disabled people is governed by the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994. As you are aware, this exemption is linked in legislation to the receipt of certain mobility allowances including the higher rate mobility component of Disability Living Allowance and the War Pensioners Mobility Supplement. Legislation specifies that a vehicle is an exempt vehicle when it is being used, or kept for use, by or for the purpose of a disabled person. The term 'for the purpose of' is not defined in legislation. DVLA is therefore unable to offer guidance in what the legislation may or may not imply. You may wish to contact the Disability Living Allowance [sic] for further guidance on 08457 123456. I hope this is helpful. Do not reply to this email. If you wish to contact us again about this response then please use our Reply Form or copy and paste the following URL in to your browser: https://emaildvla.direct.gov.uk/emaildvla/cegemail/directgov/en/reply_form_vehicles.html When filling in the form the email reference number XXXXXXX will be required. Regards J Salmon Customer Enquiries Group DVLA 8> So that clears that up then ..... ?!

Yup. I though I'd added that [and more!] to my message, but it seems to have been eaten in the ether twixt here and there.

Yup, my bad. Sloppy on my part.

I'll shout when DVLA get back to me. I have an awful feeling that their 'advice' will be somewhat nondescript, but if so, I'll try to push them for a definitive decision. Cheers RussH

RussH

I have to ask, did you ever take the initial and/or substantive CID course when you were a PC? I say this because your interpretation of some of the legislation you quote is way off. So much so that it would be dangerous for anybody to take some of your advice at face value. Sorry to be so brutal, but sometimes a little knowledge is dangerous. Don't get me wrong, I'm no expert either. I left the Job as a DS, and I would be mortified if someone took any half-baked advice I gave on criminal legislation and went on to do or say something seriously detrimental.

There would normally have to be some other circumstances for that to happen - wet roads, raining, windy, lots of traffic, narrow roads, your overtake was iffy, pedestrians/horses/tractors/mud/cyclist on the route, etc. Usually, if a careless driving charge was being considered by the reporting officers, he/she would have mentioned it [he/she doesn't HAVE to, but it would be the norm]. As food for thought, some years back I was done for 103 on the A1[M]. I was pinged by a VASCAR from a stationary solo motorcycle. I travelled to the magistrates court [some 100 miles away], taking a mate with me just in case I was to return without my licence. I appeared in person and pleaded 'guilty'. When asked for my explaination, I went down the 'Although the road surface was dry, level & good and the visibility was very good, I was a complete wally/I am mortified/Never do it again' route, and threw in that 'I travelled some 150,000 miles a year for my job, and this had had a very sobering effect on me. I had wel & truly learned my lesson Your Worships, etc...' I copped a £250 fine, 6 points & a posh bollocking from the Bench, but escaped a ban. The guy before me had been caught at the same place, same speed, same officer. He appeared with a solicitor and, despite pleading guilty as well, he'd instructed his brief to argue the position of the officer & disputed the speed quoted. He copped a £150 fine & [i think?] 6 points, but was also hit with a 6 month ban. Good luck.

Further to my last posting, I had a long telephone conversation with a lady from Motability legal dept. this morning. She confirms the following:- ------------------------------------------------------------------- 1] Motability, as an independent company, is set up to lease vehicles for use by or on behalf of disabled persons in receipt of the higher rate mobility component of DLA. As an independent company, they set their own terms & conditions of use. She confirms that any nominated driver may use the lease vehicle for routine activitives, as long as the disabled person [the lessee] derives an identifiable benefit from said activity. Any driver properly nominated by the lessee may use the lease vehicle to travel to/from work to bring home an income, or to go shopping, or take children to/from school, as long as the disabled person derives an identifiable benefit from such use. There are other, similar examples of how use by nominated drivers can be beneficial to the lessee. 2] However, if the nominated person is, for instance, using the lease vehicle to travel to/from work and the salary earned does not go to benefit the lessee, the vehicle is being used outwith the T&C's of the scheme. 3] Motability contract Royal & Sun Alliance to provide insurance to lessees & nominated drivers on the Motability scheme. As such, RSA are contracted to provide such insurance as complies with Motability's T&C's. Use as detailed in [1] above complies with said T&C's, and so the lease vehicle will be fully insured when used thus. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Now, I was happy enough with the above. In brief, it's Motability's ball, and they can set the rules of the game as they see fit. Furthermore, RSA is contracted to provide insurance as defined by Motability. Where things began to get a bit wobbly is when the lady from the legal dept was answering questions about the use of a lease vehicle whilst taxed with a zero rate 'Disabled' RFL. She states, nay insists, that as it is the vehicle that is taxed, and not the individual driver, all are covered under their T&C's via their interpretation of the phrase 'identifiable benefit' I'm not happy with that. I would feel more comfortable with a definitive statement from the prosecuting authority, so I'll be firing off a letter to the DVLA, asking for their written comments. I have also asked for the Motability spokesperson to commit her comments to paper for me. For some reason, she was consistently reluctant to do so throughout our 45min conversation, using a very thin excuse for not wishing to do so. However, by the end, she did promise to send off a letter to me. My breath is now held.

Having said all the above, my advice [for what little it is worth] to any DLA holder needing to have a third party use their vehicle to travel to/from the third party's work [or similar] for the DLA holder's direct benefit, would be to get the statement from Motability detailed above sent to them in writing [ideally signed by a member of their legal team]. Then present both the DVLA & RSA with a copy and invite their written comments. If all interprete the legislation in the same way AND in writing, I would say you could be a tad more comfortable using your vehicle thus. That said, the final arbiter is the man/woman sitting in the posh seats in your chosen court room. Russ H

Motability, at least, HAVE put this in writing, in issue 66 of their 'Lifestyle' magazine [see the 'letters' page]. In a reply to a customer's letter on this subject, they say: 'A Motability car may only be used by, or for the benefit of a disabled person. However, the disabled person does not need to be present when it is used. Any nominated driver may use the vehicle for routine activitives, as long as the disabled person derives an identifiable benefit from it. Using the car to travel to work to bring home an income, or to go shopping, are both examples of how driving can be beneficial to the customer, and are therefore allowed.' http://motabilitylifestyle.co.uk/archive.aspx?show=3 That said, it would be comforting to see a similar written undertaking from the RSA & the DVLA.