They didn't show it

Mobile Money and Log book loans are having a staring role on Watchdog tonight.

I don't think you can protect yourself. I got caught with a loan that was 5 years old put on a vehicle that was 10 years old - do not believe the 8 year old rule - it does not exisit. I think you have to do a HPI check and hope that the loan appears within the first year - as you should be covered by insurance from the HPI company - I think some of them may be 2 years. The loan companies have no reason or law what so ever to register their interest in the vehicle and I think they purposefully don't - going to be a lot easier to get the money out of the new owner as they might actually have some. It is £20 to get a replacement V5 so easy to pretend it doesn't have a LBL - but obviously don't ever buy a car without one. Also phone up the loan companies - but there are now so many of them. You could also contact the Supreme Court, but you would have to hope that the loan was put on the car by the current owner as at least you know their address. I am dreading having to buy my next car.

No they don't. I asked one of the guys who works in the Bills of Sale office at The Supreme Court and they very rarely ever get a Bill of Sale 'removed' (not sure of the right word to use) They have no way of knowing if a BoS is still running or not.

Thank you Hip Hop It is a huge relief.

Today I came home to a smiling husband and a letter from the woman's solicitor. Mobile Money has agreed to pay her claim in full. Mobile Money obviously denies any liability - even though they put a loan on a vehicle without checking who actually owned it and that all the bills of sale were valid - even though the guy no longer owned the vehicle. Mobile Money have only paid her off as it was uneconomic to defend. So I have been put thru 9 months of hell because her solictors (Edit) decided to sue the wrong person. They knew the whole time that the loan was put on the vehicle in 2008, but pretended that the loan was from 2005 - before I bought the vehicle to try and make me liable. They have told me that I can't claim any costs of the woman as it is small claims - is this right as they never should have sued me in the first place? It still hasn't sunk in as I was expecting a big fight, the first one being this friday and now it is all over. My advice to anyone in a similar position is don't believe anything anyone tells you, check everything yourself and develop a terrier like attitude and don't give in and let them scare you into paying. I really want to thank everyone who helped me, you really did, I have learnt a lot about Bills of Sale something that I wish I had never heard off. I didn't use a solicitor to defend myself, just all the information I learnt on here - which her solicitors put in their letters to MM! Thank you again

You are having a pretty bad time In your scenario I am the 2nd owner, the 3rd owner decided to pay the loan company and now she is suing me and I am supposed to sue the 1st owner who took out the loan. However mine isn't quite the same as the first owner put the loan on the vehicle a year after I sold it to the 3rd owner. The loan company did no checks at all to see if he actually owned the vehicle when they gave him the money, he had a 2nd copy of the V5. The 3rd owner also paid the loan off knowing that it was put on the vehicle after she bought it - but she still paid. The 1st owner has a string of CCJs against him and is complete ****. I also did a vehicle check and mine came back clean - but that was 5 years ago so can't claim on that either. I don't know what to say really, I would check with the supreme court that this is the only loan that he has put on the bike as you could be in the same position as me. The only people who win in this situation are the lawyers - how many court cases to get to the true culprit?

You are correct it does include weekends.

As the loan was suppossed to have ended in 2008 I would check that the person did not put any more Bills of Sale on the vehicle after he sold it. 2 years is a long time to wait before repossing the bike. If you contact the Supreme Court they can do a search on the persons name and address and see what other BOS he has taken out. Be careful with how much info you put on the site, loan companies do read the posts.

It's not, there is another £150 after the allocation questionaire when you get given a court date. You have to pay that within a certain number of days and then if you decide to not proceed with the case you can get a refund as long as you cancel 7 days before your court case. Good luck with fighting them

Congratulations!

Just to add to Apple's post. I went in person to the Supreme Court and all I told them was the persons name and address who had taken the Bills of Sale. I am an innocent purchaser of a vehicle which has a bill of sale on it. They told me all the reference numbers and posted me copies of all the Bills of Sale that this person had taken out and only charged me £5 a copy - which was lucky as there were 10 of them! If you go in person you only really need to know the persons name and address, you don't need the reference number and as long as the BOS was placed on the vehicle since 2005 they can search their computer records for the details for you. Pre 2005 and they are held in ledgers on the desk in the waiting room and you can search them for free and they do show you the registration date of the BOS. I think anything pre 2005 would now be out of life as they can only last 5 years?.

No they don't.... My vehicle had 4 Bills of sale put on it after I purchased it. At no time were the loan company at my property, saw an MOT or a copy of an Insurnace document - let alone know what the mileage was. The loan companies are just handing out loans without seeing the vehicle or adhering to their own internal controls. My court case is in early december - although the claimant hasn't submitted her witness statements by the deadline - not to sure what this means.

If a loan company puts multiple BoS on a vehichle spanning several years for different loans with gaps of a year or so between the end of one and the start of another which BoS is the one that is valid. Can all the Bills of Sale run at the same time, or does the issue of a new BoS cancel out the old BoS? Is a BoS only valid for the period stated on it if the person had paid off the loan attached to it, or can the company still 'own' the vehicle even though the loan was paid off. If someone gets to the end of their agreement and they haven't paid the loan does the company need to issue a new BoS to cover the new agreement? Thanks.

Hi, I wonder if anyone can help me. If I took a loan out in 2005 and then further lons out in 2006 and 2008 all with the same company, what order would the money be paid off in when I made a payment? Would the payment go against the oldest debt or would it pay off the newest one? Thanks

Congratulatiuons

If you use CCTV's logic to the 7 day rule why has any BOS ever been registered with the Supreme Court? If I was issueing BOS and it worked the way the CCTV thinks it does I would not register the BOS until the person defaulted, then it would definalty be there within 7 days. I've been to the Supreme Court and I have seen the BOS registers - they use the date the BOS was signed by the borrower. There are many BOS in those registers that have been registered late. I also have correspondance of Mobile Money and they also use the date the BOS was signed by the borrower, they were trying to convince me that 10 days was actually 7 days - shame I have a degree in Maths! 7 clear days starts the day after the BOS was signed and does include weekends. So if your BOS was signed on a Wednesday, thursday would be day 1 and the following wednesday is day 7. If you google clear days it is quite easy to find the definition. My court case has gone very quiet, the deadline for the allocation questionaire was back in August and I haven't heard anything since - is this normal?

They don't have the car as the woman I sold the car to 3 years ago is the one stupid enough to pay them when they knocked on her door. She paid them £2,500 and is now sueing me for the money - even though the loans were taken out while she owned the car! He took at least 7 Bills of Sale on the car, I think they just kept handing them out without any proof of ownership, there was a gap of 18 months between a couple of the BOS but they still gave him one - he obviously also could never provide them with MOT of Insurnace documents. I only found out all this a couple of weeks ago. Her solictors wrote to me yesterday and said they are going to talk to Mobile Money about this - I think they think they are still going to win when the case gets to court. My solictor says don't worry about it. Mobile Money were issueing unenforceable loans. My Police told me I also couldn't report it as a crime as I was going to win the case, FSO told me I couldn't report Mobile Money for fraud either as I was not affected by it, the woman who paid the money would have too. I have looked into reporting her solictors to the Law Society for bringing a frivolous case againgst me - but I don't think I can as I am not employing them.

I like Nicky am also being sued due to a loan put on a vehicle 4 years after I bought it by the person I bought it off. I phoned The Police and they would not let me report this fraud as a crime as I have not been affected by it - I am being sued!!! I feel very affected. I did point out that using their logic if I saw a murder I should not report it as I was not dead and it hadn't affected me.

I am going thru this at the moment. I would be suspicious as the loan has to be at least from 2 years ago - LBL do not wait 2 years to reposses a car. Contact the Supreme court and do a search on the person who has taken the original BOS out and find out how many more he has taken out on your car. If you go to London yourself, they are really helpful and it is £5 a copy. On my vehicle they were still putting on BoS 3 years after he sold it to me, with no proof that he still owned it, they have put at least 4 more BoS on the vehicle since the original person sold it. It really would not be a surprise if this BoS they are chasing was only put on the vehicle a few months ago. LBL will lie to you and make out it is the original loan - it really is worth checking.

No, I never received any PM. Luckily for me I no longer need this rule. I'm using the rule that Mobile Money shouldn't put a Bill of Sale on a vehicle that was sold 3 years previously to someone else. Actually they shouldn't put at least 4 Bills of Sale on a vehicle that they have no proof that the person still owns.

Even more interesting is that the 3 BOS put on the vehicle before I bought it are all void - the first original one - which I am being sued over took them a month to register. Which OFT is investingating Log Book Loans as I want to send them all this information as further proof as to what a bunch of crooks they are. Thanks

Last week I went up to London and visited the Supreme Court to get the proper copy of the Bill of Sale that I am being sued over. Did I get a surprise. It turns out that the person I bought the vehicle of had 10 BOS registered to that address. Today the copies arrived in the post. Out of his 10 BOS 7 were placed on the vehicle I bought. 3 were issued before I bought the vehicle and 4 after he sold it to me. I bought the vehicle in 2005 and he was still having BOS put on the vehicle in 2008, I sold the vehicle on in 2007. There may be more BOS out there but his girlfriend kicked him out of their house in 2008 and I didn't do a search on his new address. The BOS do not run concurrently, there are breaks in the loans, therefor ownership would have passed back to the guy who alledgley owned the car. They are all for small amounts. I thought Mobile Money had to physically see the vehicle and have a copy of the MOT/insurance etc to put a BOS on a vehicle. Which they definatley did not do as the vehicle was first of all at my house, and then at the woman I sold it to house. I now need to add this new evidence to my defence as obviously Mobile Money have totally defrauded this woman into paying them and I am not liable for a loan they gave on a vehicle that the guy no longer owned. Her solicitors were obviously just hoping that I was too stupid to do any research and would pay her the money.

I would really like a PM too as the vehicle I innocently purchased was 10 years old at the time of the BOS. I have put the BOS on the forum so you can see I am not lying about this. Thanks

I also went to the Supreme Court on Tuesday to get copies of the BoS that I am being sued over. While I was waiting to be served I was looking thru the ledgers on the table next to me and so many BoS are registered late. Some of them are over a month out of date. Every page I looked at had at least one BoS that was well over 7 days. From memory they called the first date - 'Date of Origination' and the 2nd date 'Date of Registration' The guys working there were really nice althoughthe room was slightly difficutl to find - nevermind trying to get back to the entrance after!