are you still using it or is it now in hands in hands of dca? i'm not too sure about bank overdrafts, but i suspect that they're the same.

i don't have a thread on it. it was a small amount of money from a long time ago 1993. i had paid it regularly and as far as i was aware i had paid about £900 to it over 4-5 months in ~2000. then there was no contact for couple of years, then in ~2002 they started writing again which i ignored , then i responded at some point but didn't pay anything. this was on & off til earlier in year. I cca'd them and the rest i have told in last post, copy of original application form. The file is now closed. but if you read back the posts since thurs you'll see that i had a major success with a different company. but effectively they didn't have the agreement.

can i just throw my tuppence worth in here, as most folks know that have read this over past few days i've just had a large debt written off for this reason , no agreement. anyway i've also been in correspondence with barclaycard over a really old account they have chased me for recently, after a gap of a few years. it's not for very much money and i know for a fact that i will have paid more than double in charges. anyway they sent me a copy of the original application form, with my signature on it . i thought b****r! but when i thought about it, it's not the agreement, it only has one signature. and also don't forget as well as the possibility of being turned down for credit (so it ain't an agreement) there is always a cooling off period when you sign something like that. I have signed for double glazing before including finance, and then written and cancelled it cos i had been pressurised. so as well as the possibility of your application form being turned down you could change your mind in the cooling off period and cancel!!so if an application form can be used then the charlatans that got me to agree to double glazing could send my form and try to enforce it!! and I don't think that would be acceptable. Anyway back to me (isn't it always!) , I wrote to Barclaycard and told them that is wasn't a properly executed agreement and they agreed and wrote and told me that they would not be pursuing it. so it is worth thinking about, I certainly don't think an application form is sufficient even if it's signed by both parties

to be honest i would wait until they have actually committed an offence before i took any action ie TS and Information Commissioners Office . do write back saying that you do not acknowledge debt and the bit about anyone being able to send this to you, blah blah still require copy of properly executed agreement. be prepared it will take ages to get it sorted out, it took me 5 months, but...i didn't pay anything during that period..and it will be sorted out in the end, finally and properly

they can't do anything without the agreement, they have only partially complied, but just leave it until the 12 working days expires

a photocopy of your priority application form is not an agreement so they haven't complied. you can apply for a credit card and be turned down so it doesn't constitute an agreement, the cap 1 i'm not sure about, you could try writing to them and asking for a clearer copy

hey helz, i also had dealing with reliable which has different arms with different names. they sent me this same letter and it's true they can get round it by this, BUT, they cannot enforce it through the courts. to enforce through the courts they need, wait for it.....the original signed agreement by both parties, properly formatted and executed. today i have returned from trading standards where i have been dealing with reliable/1st credit/connaught/jd williams(all the same), they sent this letter to me and i responded saying that I disputed debt and required copy of agreement because anyone could send me an unsigned copy of an agreement and claim that i owed them money, they threatened default etc and did in fact default me. sorry it's rambling..! they then wrote and said that they realised that they couldn't enforce through courts but would make sure my credit report was updated. I told them that since they did not have my signed authority to do this they were breaching Data Protection Act. 5 months on trading standards are dealing with them and surprise surprise they wrote to TS this week saying all notes have been removed from my credit file including default!!!! so just hold on with it. have they defaulted on this yet, past the 12 working days? post here and i'll try to help because it's the same company and they are trying same thing

there is no record on my credit file of this at all, but there hasn't been even before I started this process, so I reckon that they knew that they were on dodgy ground. I would imagine that all references should be removed but for me that's not an issue fortunately. If anyone wants any more detail pm, i have a few unresolved issues with them and I don't want to post too many details until finished. Also I don't want to crow too much about it because I have wrestled with my conscience over it, but unfortunately for me i could not see any otherway at the moment since it's been ongoing for 9 years.

un1boy, it only applies to accounts still being paid, i think, even if it's not the original creditor they need to comply. if account is paid and closed then I think you can only reclaim charges. Bigal, there was no default registered, but there should have been so i think they knew that they were chancing their arm by not having agreement, but it makes it easier from me to deal with. once again I reiterate don't be put off, this proves that we're right about agreement because this was a lot of money that they are writing off. and let's be honest they don't do that lightly!

hi, today i received a letter from a large very well known DCA that I CCA'd in July. They couldn't comply and told me in Sept that they couldn't find agreement. I received a letter today stating that they were closing the file on this because "the debt cannot be enforced without the original credit agreement and you have now advised us that you do not acknowledge this debt any further" I would also say that this was for a not inconsiderable amount of money, and they have details of all payments made to it and direct debt mandate. now there is no way that an established company of this size and notoriety would do this if they had the slightest chance of continuing with it to court. So take heart and don't be fobbed off. I'm not posting the name here because I'm not finished with them but if anyone wants to know pm me.

on the theme of this thread....I today received a letter from a DCA company that I CCA'd in July and have been corresponding with. They are a very large well known company and very quick off the mark. Let me also state that the amount of money in dispute is not inconsiderable. Today I received a letter from them saying they were closing their file on this because "the debt cannot be enforced without the original credit agreement and you have now advised us that you do not acknowledge this debt any further". I was told in September that they couldn't locate the agreement but it has now been finalised. So for anyone who is not convinced that this is the case............. There is no way a DCA of this notoriety would write off a debt of this size if they thought they had any chance to recover it.

try telling them that you record all calls, after doing that and putting it at bottom of correspondence all my calls stopped.....i was dealing with them all as well ie SAR and CCA's etc.

quite often the mail and recorded delivery are delivered in a bundle and only 1 signature is taken for whole bundle. I would go on premise that they received it and if it was a cheque you can check that way when it's cashed even postal orders can be tracked.

i don't think that they necessarily need to, it doesn't stipulate it in the CCA. they need to have a copy of what it would have looked like and some sort of proof that it was sent, receipt of postage or a computer printout showing that it was produced. that was happened to me. i was sent an example of the notice I would have been sent and a computer printout with a "history" of my account and it shows it (default notice) was generated on a certain date. since in civil law it only has to be proved beyond reasonable doubt, i left it at that. they don't need to prove that you actually got it

the new Act is not retrospective and will only apply to agreements taken out after that date, so existing "debt" will not be affected by it. as far I have been led to believe the amendements affecting s 77-78 & 127 wil not come into being until April 2008.

i think that they don't have the agreement and for heavens sake don't agree to this, it could be taken as an acknowledgement, just ignore it and wait for 12 days to expire

reliable collections aka jd williams aka 1st credit aka candid collections all are one and same, there's a few other names as well. they are the slippiest ones i've had to deal with. i have a complaint with trading standards about them just now for almost same thing. but at the same time they have admitted that they can't enforce your debt so I would send them that letter and sit back and wait.

this is exactly what happened to me in fact about 3 of the DCA's did this despite my cca's being properly formatted. Write to Robinson way and any others that do this and simply say that the £1 po was not a payment but the statutory fee as per the CCA 1974, as they are well aware and tell them that the clock continues to tick from the date they received the CCA request, and also tell them that you are lodging complaint with Trading standards et al regarding their blatant abuse of the consumer credit act request. then sit back and wait on the 12 working days + 1 calander month expiring. Be aware 1st credit will continue to do this, but just stick to the Act and it will be fine.

I would write to them (RBS) with a CCA request + £1. also state in letter what your actions to date are ie cca to 2 dca's and that the debt is in dispute. they will write back and tell you why they can't comply with cca - who they've passed it onto.

to be honest I'm not particularly hot on the data protection act, i assume this debt is from way back in early 90's? itake it you have acknowledged it by paying it? if not then the Limitations Act 1980 would render it unenforceable, sorry if this has been discussed i'm just popping in briefly and don't have time to read back just now, will do so later

actually the wilson case is far more than that, it establishes precedent, as it was eventually settled in the House of Lords; which means that it is legally binding on Court of Appeal and all lower courts. so until another case reaches the House of Lords (and in many cases the House of Lords uses previous case law to determine outcome) and a different decision is reached, the Wilson case is pretty watertight and county courts are legally bound by it. so once again........an agreement which is not properly executed (or lack of one) is a complete defence and even a court cannot enforce it

i stopped paying it when they defaulted in july. and making paymnets before the cca is sent is not taken as admission of the debt, you were deceived into believing they had the legal right to collect it, as in had the correct paperwork, you were in a vulnerable state. at the end of the day even if they tried to say your payments were acknowledgement of debt they do not have the legal right to take this money or enforce this and have taken money from you by deception the legal term is something like 'taking pecuniary advantage by deception'. so stop worrying and just wait and see what thety send you back before doing anything else

just to further this point, i am pretty sure the law is on our side, from what i have read and case law. in addition a dca that i was paying; and they are alarge pretty nasty lot, i'm not saying who cos i think that they read these things; anyway in response to my cca , which they defaulted on and went well beyond the one month as well- they tried collecting it after this, i wrote to them and warned them that i would report them to the FSA, DTI etc since they had been advised by me previously that due to their non compliance they had commited an offence...anyway they then wrote to me and said that the agreement had "been lost" and they knew that it couldn't be enforced thru the courts. now my point is this, if they thought for one minute that there was a way around this, by going to court etc they would never have said this. and it is pretty clear with the wilson case that the law is on our side.

just send the cca to hsbc same as the rest and wait and see.

read thru some of the threads and when you have got yourself up to speed send a Consumer Credit Act 1974 request (copy in the library thread) along with a £1 cheque or postal order to each of the companies that you have a loan or debt with. you will then be able to see if they have a right to collect these debt and it may give you some bargaining power with them. when you send them , they have 12 working days after receipt of this request to supply the agreement. post back here when you've done this or with any more questions.