Hi, yes they are - provided that you continue to supply sick notes from your GP and of course, appeal against your failing to get the required level of points. 6+ months is really an average across the UK, some are taking 12 some less. In fact there has been one recent thread somewhere on here that highlighted that 8 months is probably more accurate.

Thanks Paul, I will second that statement!! I blame no one really other than myself for the mess that I have caused to my ESA claim. But, having said that, there must be 1000's of people out there that don't know about the forums and conequently have no input from other claimants. Maybe then my friendly neighbour is right and that we who fail at the first hurdle, appear, to the DWP, that our claims are not that important to us. Quite an expensive, time consuming and stressful lesson!!!

I have posted this on another thread and thought that a new thread might give some interesting opinions. Yes we are all in agreement that the ATOS assessment is a complete waste of everybodies time and effort and we are all seemingly blaming them for our failing. Is there not another side to the coin, one which came to light this week following a rather 'heated' friendly debate with one of my neighbours. At the end of the conversation I must admit in some way, being convinced by him!! When we complete the ESA50 how much info did you put on it (was it comprehensive?) - did you have help in filling the form out (CAB, Welfare Office etc?) and did you enclose medical evidence to prove your illness? I know I didn't - I just believed that the DWP would seek all of the evidence, and that the 'medical' would bring to light all of my inabilities. There was then no real need to spend hours and hours completing the damn form. I believed that justice would be done and seen to be done My neighbour who is a DM at DWP, said that he and his staff always treat the ATOS medical reports with distrust. He in no uncertain terms said that if the ESA50 is not filled out comprehensively (ideally with the help of CAB etc) and that there is no evidence from the claimant (even a letter of support from the GP would suffice) attached to it, then his hands are tied and he must accept the ATOS report as the primary evidence! A lot more was discussed as you can imagine, but he kept on stating that if the claimant does not help him/herself in the first place what more can he do. AND that is the main reason why appeals are in the main sucessfull at the Tribunal stage. It is only then that the claimant gets off his/her backside and looks for help from some professional organisation and produces the evidence. Bottom line he states that it is not the system of the DWP that is failing (although he admitted that staffing levels etc did not help) - they know and are acutely aware of the way ATOS complete the assessments, it is because the claimants fail to put forward a compelling enough argument to the DWP in order that the DM can give the right result first time round. "If the claimant put in as much effort as they do at the Tribunal stage to produce the contradictory evidence at the ESA50 stage, then there would be 50% more cases being decided by the DM in favour of the claimant" As I said, I am guilty of this and maybe - yes if I had put as much effort into supporting my claim at the outset, I would not be facing the Tribunal. Is there any merit in this unofficial 'statement' from the DWP?

Congrats and well done!!! One quick question and it might appear to be a daft one - when you completed the ESA50 (the medical questionaire which you returned to ATOS) how much info did you put on it (was it comprehensive?) - did you have help in filling the form out (CAB, Welfare Office etc?) and did you enclose medical evidence to prove your illness? I have a good reason for asking this as it has been told to me this week (off the record) by a neighbour who is a DM at DWP, that he and his staff always treat the ATOS medical reports with distrust. He has in no uncertain terms said that if the ESA50 is not filled out comprehensively (ideally with the help of CAB etc) and that there is no evidence from the claimant (even a letter of support from the GP would suffice) attached to it, then his hands are tied and he must accept the ATOS report as the primary evidence! A lot more was discussed as you can imagine, but he kept on stating that if the claimant does not help him/herself in the first place what more can he do. AND that is the main reason why appeals are in the main sucessfull at the Tribunal stage. It is only then that the claimant gets off his/her backside and looks for help from some professional organisation and produces the evidence. Bottom line he states that it is not the system of the DWP that is failing - they know and are acutely aware of the way ATOS complete the assessments, it is because the claimants fail to put forward a compelling enough argument to the DWP in order that the DM can give the right result first time round. "If the claimant did put as much effort as they do at the Tribunal stage to produce the contradictory evidence at the ESA50 stage, there would be 50% more cases being decided by the DM in favour of the claimant"

Hi, I too have now received copies of my medical files. They cost me £100 as I am treated at two different hospitals - 330 miles apart!! There is only one way that these could be obtained free of charge and that is by the Tribunal/ATOS/DWP applying for them on your behalf - something that they are obliged to do if you can convince them that evidence exists that can disprove the ATOS report & DWP decision!!! See how far you get with that one I ask?? One of my files goes back to 1994 when one of my illnesses started. I agree it does make sobering reading - there were many instances that my tests were not compared. One of the worse ones was a report from my Psychiatrist in 1996 when he stated that sectioning me under the Mental Health Act would be unnecessary - hey he was ignored and I spent a month locked up in a secure unit!!! Right I must move on - I have now requested copies of my file from DWP & ATOS. As regards costs, yes, my GP is charging me £125 for a report and copies of their files, and £250 for each of my two Consultants to give an opinion on all of my various illnesses. All of this to prove ATOS wrong!!! AND the whole ball will start rolling again when I put my claim in for DLA and no doubt a further medical re my ESA claim in time to come!!! Where does it end???

Hi - have a look at this site - it gives all of the allowances and there is also a calculator that allows you to plan various scenarios How your tax credits entitlement is worked out : Directgov - Money, tax and benefits

Hi Alan, maybe thay just assumed you could squat without difficulty if you did not tell them that you had to wear adult nappies!!! Sorry for bringing the tone of the thread down to gutter level - ooops!!

Helen, this is getting silly now, care needs have nothing whatsoever to do with the extra money. The extra for being in either of the two groups is for 'living costs'. And as for 'flashing it across the internet' you only have to view the Jeremy Kyle television show to realise what people DO sometimes spend the money on. Alcohol, drugs, betting, etc etc. That programme would certainly reach the DWP's attention. The DWP know what is happening, but cannot do anything about it unless each and every one of us is subject to a means test of actual living costs - some would get more than others!!! Would you agree to that?

I would go along with the comments already made. It is fruitless to argue amongst ourselves - we should be using what energy we have to fight for the justice we so rightly deserve!! I will mention a comment made by someone from the DWP when asked if the 'lump sum' was treated as capital or income for means tested benefit purposes. The answer was given without hesitation in that it would be treated as capital NOT income. The explanation given to me was that as I would have managed for upwards of 9 months on the Assessment Rate - pending appeal, this lump sum would be something 'extra' and not needed to support your lifestyle!!!! So the DWP think that the lump sum is a 'bonus' given that I would have survived the period leading up to receiving it. So whether you have a holiday, buy clothes etc, it is the DWP's opinion that it has little to do with living costs incurred in that earlier period.

Hi, yes I know where you are coming from. I went off sick in March 2009 and resigned in December 2009. I was honest with my employer in that building up to March 09, I was in and out of work for at least a week every month. I could not see a time when I would be able to go back full time so we parted company. Prior to resigning, I claimed ESA in Oct 09, failed the medical in Mar 10 and now waiting for the appeal hearing. Of course it would be a lot less stressful if I cancelled the ESA claim, but like you I am hoping to do some self employed work if and when. Where it helps me is that the disregard for Pension Credit is £10pw - earn anything over that it is reduced £ for £. By staying on ESA, and under the 'Permitted Work' rules, the disregard is a lot better.

Right I hope that I can help you with this one as I looked into it as an option I could take. Pension Credit is basically a means tested benefit. For a single person a payment of £132.60pw is made and for a couple, £202.40. If all of your income is less, Pension Credit will top it up. There are other additions such as mortgage interest payments, payments if you have savings and disability premiums. Now if you are claiming ESA, Pension Credit will take that into account when calculating your total weekly income. However if you stop claiming ESA, whatever you lose by way of payment for that benefit, Pension Credit will increase their payment by the same amount. So in other words, you can never be any better off or indeed worse off. What it does mean that you have no need to continue sending in sick notes, attend medicals or fill in the ESA50. Whatever you receive from ESA it will be taken off the Pension Credit payment. One thing in favour in claiming Pension Credit is that the amount is fixed for a period of time, and if your income does go up it will not affect the weekly payment until the review date - maybe in 6 months! It is a personal choice if you want to claim ESA however (it may sound daft given my comments above!), as there are or maybe other options open to you depending on your particular circumstances. Example: I receive £5.25 Pension Credit pw & £65.45 ESA pw whilst waiting for the Tribunal hearing as I failed the medical. If I stopped the ESA, my Pension Credit payment would go up to £70.70 pw. The reason I am claiming ESA is because of the other conditional add on's that are not available with Pension Credit but are with ESA. Hope that makes sense - it's really a personal thing and you have to weigh up all of your other options that might be of use to you now and in the future.

Hey Pompey - thanks!!

Hi could you possibly delete this for me as I will start again - thanks & sorry

Hi everyone and this thread is a 'tongue in cheek' answer to all of those that are found to be fit for work. It has been posted on here many times about what are all these 'failures' going to do, given the current climate of increased unemployment. Well I have found the answer!!! I have come across this advert from the JC+ employment website. Wage MEETS NATIONAL MINIMUM WAGE SUN, MON, TUES, 8 -10 AM Location *********** Duration Permanent Date posted 17 May 2010 Closing date 12 June 2010 Pension details No details held Description "This Local Employment Partnerships employer shares information about new starters with Jobcentre Plus, for statistical purposes only. Refer to Website of the UK government : Directgov for further information".We are looking for an enthusiastic, caring, self-motivated person able to work well alone as well as part of a team. The successful applicant will be responsible for the daily care of rescue dogs with duties including cleaning, grooming and exercising, so although no previous experience is necessary, a good rapport with animals is essential and a willingness to contribute a similar amount of voluntary hours will be an advantage. here is an employer that is offering 6 hours work a week at the National Minimum Wage. BUT it seems that if you were to do another 6 hours per week for nothing, the job is likely to go to that person. Now I have nothing but admiration for these charities and the work they do. But if my maths is up to speed, the actual average hourly rate will be 1/2 of the NMW!!! AND these are jobs being offered to JSA applicants. Now if each employer was looking to employ someone for 35 hours pw, they would only have to pay for 17 1/2 hours. There we have it two people employed for the price of one - now if I was in power...........!!! ]

Hi This is sooooo damn wrong!!!! Why is the State treating us worse than animals being put to sleep?? This poor lady is suffering and in society today there does not appear to be one ounce of understanding being shown to her by the powers that be!!!! When I was in the forces you still felt that you had the support from 'most' even when you had to put yourself in harms way! What on earth is happening to understanding, compassion and the belief that there will always be somebody to hold you when you fall??? Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!

Thanks for the genuine words & thoughts. Yes she is a diamond, sometimes I don't tell as often as she deserves. Yes we have had hard times as well as happy ones, and it is those memories of happy ones that keep us going. I have started now by opening up to some reps from some charities that seem to know just what is that I feeling. Do you know that in combat situations - and I've been in the thick of it many times, there never seemed to be any real reprecussions - you had your comrades with you, shared everything together. But this is totally different, up until now whilst my wife knew most of what happened, I never explained how I really felt afterwards. It was just something I wanted to protect her from. She knows more now, and surprisingly, says that she already knew!!! That's women for you. She never ceases to surprise or amaze me. At a few millimetres over 5' I think she is far stronger and more robust than I could ever be. So yes the tide is turning however slowly, and intend to get it into the open and accept the help offered. Thanks once again

Thank you so very much for those comments. I also showed my wife them, and I will be honest, she had a little cry. She has - well we both have - become used to having just each other. It was the first time she has told me that she felt that there are others that care. Sound sad don't we? Yes you have summed up my character completely, and as for letting the 'barriers' down - that will take time and trusting in other people. Thanks once again!

Hi all, just an update - I have had discussions with both charities and to say the least they were both very positive and understanding. A lot more than I had hoped for. They both knew from the outset what I was going to say after I briefly outlined the story. I was so surprised especially with the RBL when they were quite a matter of fact in saying that the public had no conception what was happening to some of the guys in theatre today. Anyhow, I just thought I would say thanks to all that have helped so far. Oh yes, to add insult to injury, one of my neighbour's son, happened to mention that he was claiming ESA due to back problems???? He made it through the medical with no problem at the reconsideration stage - He submitted a letter from his GP stating that any form of moving around causes extreme pain. OK, I felt sorry for him, except he then went on to say that the DWP had agreed with him that he could carry out some permitted work. Ummmm!! He works form home and trades in Ebay. He goes to the Post Office every day with parcels etc and has no problem carrying them to the car. He readily admitted that he works upwards of 28 hours pw. and he gets away with it legally! How? I asked. He is self employed, has two cars, an old Ford Escort and a £18,000 BMW. His business expenses are that he claims for using part of his home as offices, puts the whole cost of running and buying the BMW as the business car, (claims that the Escort is the family car) claims telephone, computer and even gives his wife a working wage (£250 pw). It seems that - and this may be the answer to the Thread about the public judging us on here by reference to others - providing he shows that his 'earnings' (net profit) are less than £1000 pa, then he is doing nothing wrong under the Permitted Work Rules. The number of hours he works is of no consequence! AND all of this is legal. No wonder the public see this and think that we are all having a damn good living courtesy of the benefit system.

Hi, Course you can. Just complete the form giving the reasons why you are appealing and send it off. When you get the evidence togther you can either send it to the DWP, or if they have already sent off your file to the Tribunal Service, send it to the Tribunal Service

Hi, yes we are all 'suffering' because the powers that be are trying their best to get the Welfare costs down to a more manageable level. If that means putting as many 'road blocks' in place - so be it! It would not surprise me that they will do away with the 'contribution' based claims altogether, and put everyone on one single 'Income Support' benefit which would pay the minimum with a proviso that those claiming JSA will have to 'work' for their pittance, whilst those that are sick will have to pass the medical. Failing the medical will automatically mean that the JSA type claim would come into play and you WILL have to work. Anyone failing to work as directed will have their benefit stopped. This idea of being paid ESA whilst waiting for the appeal would cease! Geee - I do hope that I am wrong!!!! Well those are my depressive thoughts today - and not much help to you. By the way has your GP indicated that there may be a cost in supplying this info under the FOI Act? My GP charges for supplying this info as well as for writing any form of report. I seem to remember when I made my applications to the Area Health Authority and my GP that they have 40 days or so to reply. Your ESA will be re-instated to the assessment level as soon as the appeal is received, you need not wait for the evidence to send in the apppeal. Take care

Hey you are very lucky. The Welfare Rights people from this council here upped and went 10 miles down the road to Dover, as that Council was having to expand due to the number of cases coming in. AND before you suggest - yes I went down there and was told that they only take people living in their area. There is still a Welfare Rights department here, but it will only deal with those cases that have a social worker attached. I did in fact think of getting an ASBO against me, but at 61, a life of disrupting the neighbourhood is well past it's use by date!! Anybody have any other ideas on how I can get a social worker working with me?

The following is an extract in respect of the disability premium The additional amounts are as follows. Severe disability Amount Single person £52.85 Couple – one qualifies £52.85 Couple – both qualify £105.70 Where a person is single, s/he will qualify for the lower rate of the severe disability additional amount if: s/he is in receipt of Attendance Allowance, the care component of Disability Living Allowance (DLA) at the middle or high rate, Constant Attendance Allowance or Exceptionally Severe Disablement Allowance; and no one aged eighteen or over is residing with her/him; and no one is receiving a Carer's Allowance (CA) for looking after her/him. Where a person has a partner, s/he will qualify for the lower rate of the severe disability addition if: s/he and partner are both in receipt of Attendance Allowance, the care component of DLA at the middle or higher rate, Constant Attendance Allowance or Exceptionally Severe Disablement Allowance; or one partner is in receipt of Attendance Allowance, the care component of DLA at the middle or higher rate, Constant Attendance Allowance or Exceptionally Severe Disablement Allowance and the other is registered blind; and no one aged eighteen or over is residing with the couple; and no one receives a CA for looking after one of the partners in receipt of one of the above benefits. The higher couple rate of the severe disability addition is payable where: a person and her/his partner are in receipt of Attendance Allowance, the care component of DLA at the middle or higher rate, Constant Attendance Allowance or Exceptionally Severe Disablement Allowance; and no one aged eighteen or over is residing with them; and no one receives a CA for looking after either partner. The following refers to the carers premium Carer Amount £29.50 A person will qualify for this additional amount if s/he or her/his partner: is in receipt of CA; or is entitled to and would be in receipt of CA but for the fact that s/he is in receipt of a benefit which overlaps with CA. If a person has a partner who also receives a CA, then the additional carer’s amount is awarded twice. When a person’s entitlement to CA ends, the carer’s addition will continue for eight weeks. Hope this helps

Hi ....plus DLA!! and possibly a disability premium to be added to the £202

Hi, the same down here in Kent. It's the first 12 at our CAB. First time I went down, I didn't know about the limit thing, just assumed that if you are there at opening time - you were seen. I was just finishing off having a smoke outside - I was 3rd in the queue - so let some people who were behind me in, by the time I got to the door I was number 13 - and yes was told to come back the following day! Mind you I need not have bothered, I had a 10 min chat and was told to go home and they would send me an appointment in the post. That arrived 2 weeks later, for a date in another 2 weeks!! Went there and was seen by a 'benefit advisor' - a young girl who had just completed her 1st year at uni studying law. Gave up there and then - found this site and the rest is history.

Hey, after receiving my letter of failure and after receiving some bad advice from the DWP, I did as I was told and claimed JSA. The young lady interviewing me, to be honest looked and sounded a little confused as to why I was looking for work. I told her the story that the ESA people had suggested that I should claim JSA - so here I was, present and correct!!! Oh she said, but you don't look at all well - well would you if you had my problems? Now I must admit that I may have appeared to be under the influence - I certainly was, had taken 100mgs of morphine just to get me to the JC+!!! All the usual questions were asked and she suggested that I restrict my search for a job to 30 hrs pw. Ok off I went, came back the next day to sign on but was refused. The young lady came to see me and quite nicely told me that it was clear to her and her manager that I was too sick to work and consequently, she said that the JSA form had been destroyed. It was suggested that maybe I should be claiming ESA. Yes I said but they said I was fit for work!!! Oh was the reply, never mind I think you should try again!!! That was it, I appealed and am going down that route now - I wish they would make their minds up - either I am or I am not fit for work.