and remember. every statement that they file or you file is accompanied by a "statement of truth". if they change statements, amend, edit etc you then have every right to challenge if what it says is now the truth. they are legal representatives. they are called "officers of the court". read the solicitors act. they are not allowed to mislead the court. everybody is entitled to a fair hearing. just because you are the "man in the street" does not mean you have less rights

p.s. sorry some typo errors but guess the main contents can be understood. unfortunately i have an overactive brain and sometimes i miss words when i am typing lol

a judge does not simply walk into a court room and starts listening. some of them go in early to read the cases they have been assigned. some will just have a brief read of your statement (which is again NEED to know the story, you HAVE to paginate your statement, you HAVE to have notes of the most important parts in your statement). IF there is something they are unsure of, then they have books in their chambers to look things up no you do not have to take copies of case law that are classed as "common ones". every judge will know example about carey & others v hsbc & others. BUT, if you take three copies with you (one for the judge, one for the other side and one for you) it helps. make sure you paginate the copy for the judge and the one for you (the other side can suffer and count pages lol). then AGAIN you need notes. e.g. your honour. i respectfully refer this court to page x of the case law i have submitted at paragraph xx and especially to the part where it says xyz this is why again, i do not believe in pre printed statements being made for members. dca's, solicitors etc read posts on here and other sites. and to make it easier for them members post XYZ v HSBC or XYZ v Leeds Losers (Lowell Portfolio). heck, work it out. simple logic. you cover your name and address and the account number. you can also cover amount owed. all you have to write is "i got this letter yesterday" and you have the date on the letter. they just check what letters were posted the day before, check the contents. they know who you are. now they know what you are going to be sending in to their office and they are ready for you. again, it is like playing poker. you bluff your way. how many times have you heard of somebody playing poker and with say a 2 of hearts and a king bluffed his way and made all the other players fold?? a lis. again.... read between the lines. what link did i refer to on the second post up?? it is a link to a thread here. did you bother googling mcguffick v royal bank of scotland?? it was a rubbish high court hearing. if you read the ruling, even the solicitor for mcguffick said "hardly a case law". members on here whinge and groan about it for its stupidity. yet, what did i say? you research. part of this i like it. part of that i do not need it. build my statement. do some legwork. now google that case law and find the part about the lis and see what the judge had to say so in effect, IF it is a case law, i am referring to the judge hearing my case (not that i have any claims against me personally) to a case law. it says there must be a lis. now you have put the judge in a corner. does he grant it or not? is he going to go against case law in the high court in a humble county court? think about it the idea of issuing a request for a copy of the agreement is now way past. BUT IF you read rulings and judgements, you can manipulate the situation in your favour. but this is why you need to know the story and what you are referring to. to show the judge and the other side you know what you are talking to let me explain something to you (and other members on here). the solicitor or barrister that meets you is NOT in the direct employ of the company suing you. he is a freelance. he gets a message asking if he is free on so and so date. he looks to see if he knows you (e.g. maybe you are a brother or a cousin or married to his sister which will create a conflict of interest). he is then briefed. and one of the reasons why they try to befriend you before the hearing is to work out what you know, do not know etc etc. after he finishes he sends a mail to the company briefing them what happened. if it is adjourned, he will tell why adjourned, what you are like, what the judge said and his opinion. you make a solicitor or barrister write in saying you know more then half the solicitors in that court he will suggest they drop the case as money lost http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/lis LIS. A suit; an action; a controversy in court; a dispute. in this case a controversy in court. one cannot just submit a statement with whatever exhibits and then, all of a sudden change the information to suit oneself. again, read the case law i referred to and understand it. in law, every party has the right to be made of what evidence there is and be allowed time to read it, understand it and consider it to be able to defend oneself

and by the way, there is another member on here called steve2577. i was also his mentor. he got his with two case laws. one about postal services and one about the dn. i know how he argued them. first he asked for an adjournment so he can study the case law (they were presented there and then at the court). case adjourned as he is not of legal standing so needs some time. then he asked for a lis so no more case law is presented and therefore avoiding any other adjournment. he won as well plus costs

read between the lines and understand what has been posted yeah it has been a while. been cleaning up my e mail account from old mail and came upon this thread. the information is there. where to look. what to do. mostly all, and i repeat mostly all, claims finish with an adjournment for some reason or another. why do you ask for a lis? as i said google.it. there is a case, which is claimed to be a test case. it is also complained about on here but, read what the judge said about a lis. i know the case i am referring to. do you? hint: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?246955-High-Court-case-of-McGuffick-v-Royal-Bank-of-Scotland-... read the comments of the members. now work out why the OP asked for a lis. the judge has to grant it or, it will be a misjudgement. the OP is not legally trained this is why i said people have to do research and build up their own statements. bit of this. bit of that.this applies to me. this does not. so i complain i never got a dn. so what? there is a case law where the judge says just because the dn has to give a period of time (14 days), it means nothing. so a member can read a thread where the dn was posted on say a friday, forget saturday and sunday. allow 2 days for first class post or 4 days for second class post. start counting the days. ohhhhhhhh the dn is defective. then you find a barrister who will refer the judge to the case law that it does not have to give exactly 14 days or more. member loses the claim as not properly informed yes, one can advise. yes one can try to guide. but members should do their own legwork as well and not be spoon fed. might sound harsh but that is life. at the end of the day, if somebody owes say £13,000 and wins the claim plus say £1,500 costs, that person has in effect won £14,500. so do research. it is in your favour read what the OP wrote when i asked him (as a joke) if he had referred to a "lis" now how did i know he did that??? (page 2). again do research. it is your money you are fighting for. or take the easy way out. if you have no savings, no property etc go for bankruptcy

i was actually his "mentor" i told him not to post a copy of the statement in a public forum. in the first instance, his wife had the same problem regarding a credit account in her name putting a copy of the statement, any dca can read it and know what to be wary of. therefore, he can indirectly sabotage his wifes problem by making it public. furthermore, and not wishing to sound like some clever person, he can keep a copy of that statement. at any time he has problems, he can modify it (add parts or remove parts) so it fits in with the problem one of the reasons i have not been recently posting was that i noticed the following: a: members trying to get out of paying. in my opinion, if you took out a credit card you should pay the money. it is ONLY if the creditor breaches the consumer credit act then you fight back. every month i pay my credit card bill. yes, i know i can fight them if i want to. my credit card account is an old account which i have had for years and years but i pay up b: members just want the easy way out. they want a cut and paste. half the time, they do not know what they are even sending in that letter or statement. then they appear in court and do not know nothing so they lose. (remember in court the judge is going to listen to the solicitor or barrister more then he is going to listen to you so, you have to be convincing and............ show you know what you are talking about) read what are referred to as case law. for example: carey & others v hsbc & others. i forgot how many pages that thread went to. i love it. the OP's statement referred to parts of that case law. read rankine v amex. members on here call it a stupid example. i love it. again the OP's statement referred to parts of that case law. do not just stop there. read threads about, for example, mobile companies selling debts and you have statements you can take parts from. look at the law of property act and there are parts you can use you read, you learn what they are playing at. you take a statement. you modify it to suit your needs. you take another statement that is on here and you add to your other statement if part of it applies to you. you can start with part of one statement regarding credit cards, add part that was on mobile debt, add this and add that. does this apply to you?? does it not apply to you? you and only YOU know the story you have to KNOW your story. you have to UNDERSTAND what you are writing. if not then ask what it means and for an interpretation. IF you appear in front of a judge you need to know what you are talking about not speak like a parrot. if you are asked something, you need to know where to refer to it. see a solicitor or barrister in court. they are all the time taking notes while you speak. learn to do the same so you can challenge them i was recently in a hearing against my local council (i live in a long term lease flat) about the charges. the barrister started talking and believe me she kept on and on and on. i won the hearing in front of the LVT (land valuation tribunal). they filed for an appeal. i got, believe it or not, a 453 page box file with references................... at the hearing, this time in front of a judge she started talking again. when she finished i asked her a few questions........... 1: in this big file you claim that all leaseholds are the same but, my local council has actually got two different type of leases as they amended the one i have. the council in next city to i live in has a different lease. why did you not enclose a copy of the leases to these case law you refer to? (they were from london). no answer 2: i see you refer to case law, or what you call case law, that you were involved in. your name is on the front page of each of them. would i be right in believing you, as a barrister, specialise in leasehold law? answer yes. so then i continued with......... how many cases would you say you handle in a year? answer quite a few. how many of these cases do you win? do you win all of them? answer no. so then i continued......... will you not say then that submitting cases where you won but not submitting copies of cases where you lost is misleading to this court? answer: total silence do not be afraid of solicitors or barristers. it has been said on here. it is a judge lottery. i have been in hearings where the judge was a total ******** (to be polite) and, i have been in hearings where the judge actually fought the claim for me. (there is one judge i know hates my guts. apparently he heard i thought he looked like mr burns on the simpsons. big nose, skinny as anything and bald at the top of his head with a big head) read what they write. understand it. be like a solicitor. you listen but you give nothing away. remember the old saying "loose lips sinks ships". you are playing a game of poker with them and a game of chess at the same time. game of poker is to keep what you have secret until you need to use it to win. game of chess you plan your next move and countermove in advance i have read too many threads on here where members think they are cocky and send stupid letters. heck there was one, at one time, who even tried preaching "freedom of the land" learn your story. do research. take part of this and part of that and build your own statement. your research will teach you. your statement MUST pertain SOLELY to your case. there is nothing more frustrating to a judge reading a statement that refers to things which do not answer the claimants statement OR points out discrepancies in the claimants statement as to the real meaning of the word "lis" use google. it is a legal term AND it can be used and requested in front of a judge. IF requested and the judge does not grant it, then he is not complying with the law and, you can claim unfair treatment sorry, but in my opinion, posting statements left right and centre on an open forum means companies can learn (the same as you), know what to expect, find a way how to counter attack and it will not be beneficial. you have the debt. do some work and research

By the way, one of my sons and his partner (they live abroad) came over for a week. As I only have a two bedroomed flat and I have his brother living in the spare bedroom I could not accomodate them so I booked them 2 nights in Premier Inn and 5 nights in the local Travelodge. Premier in they hung a sock over the fire alarm. Stupid sods went out and forgot to take the sock off. They got a warning Travelodge they were both seen with their heads sticking out of the window having a smoke. Got pulled up. "Sorry not smoking in the room. I was having a smoke outside" :oops: Have fun.

Right. To clear a few discrepancies. You do NOT get interest on £150. It depends on the Judge Lottery. I have issued claims. I have found two judges who basically fought the solicitor and barrister for me. I have found judges who were a pain in the backside and bent over backwards to accomodate the other party. One even overrode case law (a solicitor is not entitled to be paid if he abondons the client. Had the case law. Basically the solicitor wanted to enforce a high court order in a county court. This cannot be done unless it is attachment to earnings. A previous solicitor had tried it and the judge dismissed the application. Ironically it was the same judge. Refused to see the copy of the order he himself had made and went against me). Costs. After that hearing I had another claim in front of the same judge same day. Cos I had challenged him (small claims track) within 5 minutes (guess he wanted to go for his dinner) he stopped the hearing, found against me and ordered I pay all their costs. Over £1,000. Ironically, this was a claim where the previous judge had said that he believed I was right but wanted a skeleton statement. Be careful. As said. It is the judge lottery. Some are real sods. How to answer: Smoking. Yeah my wife smokes. They are called electronic cigarrettes and can be smoked in airports, bars, departure lounges and even on some airlines like Ryan air. So you saw me or my wife smoke. So what? Electronic cigarettes are not against the law. Can even smoke them in a supermarket. alternatively: Your cleaner smelt cigarrette smoke. There are many different brands of cigarettes. Can you please ask the cleaner to describe the smell? If they say x say you smoke methol. It gives a different smell If they say y say you smoke malboro. It gives a different smell If they say z you smoke rolling tobacco. It gives a different smell Have fun

Dont tell me you asked for a "lis"!!!!

But then according to McGuffick v Royal Bank of Scotland at part 14 and at part 104 it says that there must be a lis between the parties. So therefore, unless the creditor can prove that the set aside was inconclusive then Res Judicata comes into force. In short, they cannot amend documents to get over the enforceability argument.

I am sorry but I do not agree with you. IF a judge orders set aside due to unenforcement then it becomes Res Judicata.

Hold hold. Hold on. McGuffick v Royal Bank of Scotland. Case law. The judge is wrong. He cannot say "Bring in more documents and expect you to fix the problems". At two points the Judge refers to a Lis being properly made and no new documents/agreements were filed by RBS. That is effectively giving them right to amend documents as filed and a second bite at the cherry. The judgement for set aside should have been on the documents as filed/given at the time of the hearing.

But then does that not fall under double jeaopardy? If the judge sets aside due to uinenforceability then that is not it?

I have read a lot about members getting a set aside. What happens after somebody gets a set aside? Let us say because the agreement is 100% wholly unenforceable? Is that it? Finished?

What members on here have to understand is that these forums are monitored. Now let us be honest....... somebody puts up a scan, covers the name and address and the reference BUT leaves the name of the bank or the name of the solicitor etc......... then they leave the amount claimed. So simple logic. X bank has been referred to. They check who owes (let us say) £12,0354.11p (a unique figure which to find one the same will be I would say 1 in one trillion) and bingo. They know what is being asked, what the reply is to be expected, they can work out the IQ of the person involved (how a post is made, the english, there are a lot of things that give a game away). You aint got a chance. The "brief" (barrister) will be told all of this so he can run you round his little finger. Solicitor rules of conduct state that a solicitor CANNOT mislead the court. So most judges will believe "him/her" and not "you". In my experience, most judges also are in favour of banks and institutions and against the "man in the street". They look at you as "the person trying to get out of a contractual agreement". Read your "story". Understand it. Read the draft letters. Understand them. Jeez if you read McGuffick v RBS the letter sent for the s.77 application is the same as on here!!!! Read the posts on here. Read AND MOST OF ALL understand the CCA1974. Read the case law referred to. Read them again. See which parts of the Act and of the case law referred to apply to you. Most of all, stop trying to take the easy route. i.e. I post a question. I get a reply quoted letter and I just cut and paste. Most probably they have read it and will be expecting it. IF you are not capable of "the fight" then arrange a monthly minimal payment. Look at all the pros and cons. Look at every angle. Most of all, after having read the caselaw, the cases they will use, the Act etc try and make a statement for court which will show that they have no reasonable prospect of success and make them discontinue. p.s. Just some advise