I know people criticise our site but I find it weird that you can apply for a loan via SMS. Maybe it is me but I am skeptical.

I believe that you would need to look into this and prove this substantial though however There is no law that regulates the providing of a service where legally owned media via a client coming to a site and requiring said item for the purpose of owning a 'safekeeping' copy, CANNOT legally ask anyone to do so as long as there are ground rules and terms to which the backup can legally be produced. Again, someone needs to challenge this as at the moment - no one has I believe and the reason, why we have not been prosecuted I believe. I do not believe I have challenged anyone on here tonight apart from the one or two who have tried to disrupt a very good debate. I have also not asked for the thread to removed UNLESS stupidity results, which is has in a small amount and has been dealt with - very admirably - by the modteam on here which I am very happy about. Again, we throw down the challenge to anyone wishing to prove that the service we run for duplication IS illegal, as at the moment, we have not seen it to be the case and as such, we believe, when it cannot be proven so far.. cannot be deemed ILLEGAL for all intense purposes. EDIT: Also off topic but, I would like to thank you for helping me out with my bank charges back a LONG time ago on here. So thank you

We have to make it clear.. we do not sell any copyrighted material at all, as clients MUST already own the media they wish duplicated or serviced. I do agree, we need clarification on this - however, again, someone needs to look into this majorly to clarify 'the law' on backups and running a service as a duplication agent. At the moment, I do not believe we need a licence to do so but this remains to be tested.

LOL! Many thanks for that - most appreciated. I have enjoyed tonight, I would rather have a sensible and balanced debate and it has been excellent mostly. I hope people understand, that while I have come across as a bit of a prat (lets be honest) I am protecting something which we work bloody hard for.. so if it is described as illegal, we get offended by that. I would NEVER work for a company that scammed or in any way, stole, committed illegal acts, or in any way, had a negative influence on the UK public. If we need to adjust the store slightly to acomodate more legal details, then so be it if this will publicly give a more professional and positive appearance. We only ask that people question the copyright law in the UK .. someone really does need to clarify the full law on what we can or cannot do as consumers as there are many grey areas that should not be there. It should be made clear and concise for all to see.

We do need to put more effort into advertising this fact on our site.. clearly we do and of course we shall. We would need to look into the ins and outs on the 'unopened' part however as we do not wish to make a loss on any product not being fit for purpose again.

Then I believe the only thing missing on the site is the postal address and VAT details if these are applicable. The rest I believe we have covered on the site, but we are always open to improving at all times.

Which we can assure you - we are looking into now. If this means a lot more to clients, of course we will do so. If it needs to be there, it will be added.

The names were mentioned again mate. And that the site was illegal - when its not and cannot be proven

I will be honest with you... PayPal are total 'Dick Turpins' but without the mask.

I did have to have a few posts with personal information 'gromitted' but thats all - promise EDIT: Just to mention what is going on with Adobe as well by the way. I am trying to communicate with this person Chris Stickle but I am getting nowhere really.. I am asking WHY without consulting any legal advice, they can comment that our site is illegal? I find this a very honest and open question to ask and I am getting nowhere apart from the same comment over and over.. which leads me to believe that this person is NOT who they say they are.

Sorry, I am trying to respond as fast as I can tonight on everything. We do provide an address to return items to which is the team in our returns department who check every item upon receipt back to us. Again, we are not uncontactable at all - we do not hold a PO Box as well at the moment but we are looking into this as this may be a more professional way of dealing with our clients we believe.

And as I mentioned previously, I do not deal with financial matters or tax on the site. But, if we need to put these details on the site, we will look into it.

As we did explain many times.. hello again by the way everyone The site is registered to the guy mentioned in other threads.. who is an individual and has NOTHING to do with XL anymore. However, as he owns the .co.uk - he is entitled 'quoted by Nominet employees' to have the WhoIs opt out as a UK individual (who is not legally linked with our site and service - this according to Nominet is acceptable) We do not trade on the .co.uk by the way - we trade from a hosted location in the US - our domain name, links us to the net.. nothing illegal in this. Nominet put the WhoIS opt out back on incidentally - not us.

Don't look at me -I was enjoying it as well Until we had the silliness again. We are quite willing to reply, but without the idiocy.

I would have to look into why though... and the exact nature of the conviction. I do know that they are out of prison though and have appealed from what I hear but I really need to look more into this.

And again, this is why these threads need to be closed. I am not going over past arguments on other threads as to how and why. You are clearly trolling to see if I will provide any evidence to support any claim that we are illegal at all .. and if I do not provide this, we must be running an illegal service. YET... when details are posted, they are abused and ridiculed. And Nominet and MSE clearly agree the details posted without our consent were illegal and hence removed. All publicity is good for a business... people will still come to us for our service, there will is no stopping that because at the end of the day, we are all human and we tend not to believe everything we hear, especially on the net Our presence on threads is to justify the means in which we are being persecuted.. if there is no legal evidence to support such a claim as piracy then of course we have every right to defend ourselves.. this is not an admission of guilt at all... Microsoft do the same thing I believe although a hell of a lot stronger. There is NO legal loophole - we keep stating this. It is either there or its not... and someone needs to prove it is not before these threads keep emerging.. because we challenge anyone in the legal profession to prove what we do is illegal. None of these threads is hurting our business whatsoever. It merely is increasing new clients to XL however. Of their own free will I might add

And again, after the abuse of our information this week - without our express permission which is ILLEGAL people... do you really think we would make the same mistake again? Obviously this is something need to see on the site, and I agree - if this needs to be done it will be done. We need to distance ourselves from the theory that we are pirates and by updating the contact us on the site, this will do the trick. I am also not PM'ing any details to any members who I do not know. Sorry.

I would like to ask that you consult a legal advisor on that point - in regards to the full copyright law in the UK... someone does indeed need to look into this fully and this means sitting down with the complete copyright law word for word and then proving us wrong - unless that happens.. and again, we have been doing this for over three years now with no legal comebacks - some may say that this can be construed as us 'hiding' or them not knowing about us which is incorrect. Google has known for a long while about us, yet has never reported anything on our site, nor do our clients and nor have any other forum, etc online as it cannot legally be proven that we are breaking the law in any way But if they did buy, and blatantly lied to get the software - who is to blame in that measure? We would not be, as we have that failsafe in place which must be addressed by the client before the service can proceed. Again, this needs to be legally proven the case. If users have not read the terms and conditions because they are 'boring' as you put it - is that not, how should we say, their fault? We believe so... you should read ANY terms and conditions of a site before using it. I was going to say 'tough really' but I am in a good mood tonight Agreed on Microsoft, but again - the theory is that if they can allow ripping of a CD which let's be honest here.. is not theirs (and I doubt they pay X amount of pounds for me to rip my CD's to the drive) and they can allow a DVD Movie to be played back on the console LEGALLY.. then this is just the same however.. we are employed by a client to make a duplicate for safekeeping in any effect. I pose a question. Why do Microsoft allow a game to be ripped to a hard drive on the XBOX - without the 100% need for the disc afterwards? Say for example COD4 - Microsoft do not own the legal rights to this game, so why allow it to be installed to their harddrive?

What you are asking us to do is put information onto a public forum which we are not going to do, as it gets used illegally.. as we have found out this week and why Nominet are in the - shall we say - proverbial dog poo. Again, we would need to see hard evidence from a legal expert on this matter to go over it with a fine tooth comb before we read on a public forum - no offence intended with that. File Sharing - glad you mentioned that as I want to mention the Pirate Bay. Something occured to me today, it has not been mentioned a lot on consumer forums and I think it needs to be discussed. Did the Pirate Bay actually do anything illegal? I actually think not -because for starters, they did not actually have any illegal media for you to download from.. it all stems from the users of Pirate Bay sharing the torrent which are then held via Pirate Bay. Quite how Pirate Bay can be prosecuted eludes me as they do not issue any software for you to access the torrents, they merely link to the torrents themselves where the files are kept.. which is not the pirate bay. I believe though that movie companies really did have it in for the Pirate Bay - and after hearing some of the reasoning why they were convicted it does seem a bit murky as to why they were.. one theory is that they were somehow linked to someone in organised crime....

I think personally this is to do with the descriptions of an item. They can be legally prosecuted IF the item is a copy and is sold on the basis that it is genuine and not advertised as such. To be completely honest, I have bought a couple of DVD's for my partner from eBay especially xmas times (Region 1's) and they have turned out to be copies... we complained as well.

AND we are off again... and people wonder WHY we are having threads closed? :-| Why is it can I ask, that when we respond politely, and quite positively on any thread it descends into this? I really don't understand people and the way they think - I really don't sometimes. I am not blaming anyone on this forum so far apart from this person as we are having, I think anyway, a quite interesting debate and it has for me, been quite interesting tonight on here.

I agree on the theory - but in principal we are talking about two different animals entirely. In supermarkets, who have a legal and moral responsibility nowadays to the nations children NOT to allow them to illegally drink underage. Back in the old days, I am 30 by the way - we were only asked our ages and NEVER had to produce any ID at all.. that was the way it worked back then. Time have changed, and sorry to say it, our youth of today drink too much.. we all know this. But the government with its lax approach to drinking (24 hour drinking law) has allowed this to continue. It is only because the UK is going to the dogs, that a big kerfuffle has been made and you now have to produce ID 'IF' - I say if.... because if you look older than 21- they do not ask. It absolves supermarkets from legally being punished if someone decided to get drunk underage. Tesco's - if you look over 21 by the way (and they can quite easily prove me wrong I am sure) DO NOT ask for ID even if the buyer is younger than they look. Same as on our site - although different medium. We ask, and we have the client signify that they legally own that product before we commence the service and only on that signification, will the service go ahead.

Correct however.... Have you never gone on holiday especially to the US or Japan and seen something REALLY cheaper than over here which is not over here yet? I have. And I've also purchased quite a lot from outside of the UK as well which is not over here yet. People can purchase the items outside of the UK, and then use our service legally as long as they own the product. The same rule applies - but the customer MUST have purchased the item to use our service.. we are very strict on this policy. Not to appear sarcastic - but you can import items from other countries I believe

We are not there to hold clients hands at the end of the day - neither are Microsoft. Again, I know I keep mentioning it.. but under legal law.. we are totally absolved from any legal comeback on something that HAS to be legally agreed at the end of the day. All we can say is, DO NOT use this product illegally. We do not have to accertain at all... you come onto a site, agree its T&C's and abide by its rules. It is the same for this site for example. Why do you think they have a tick box when registering? You have to agree to the sites terms and conditions as it absolves CAG from any wrongdoing.

Agreed.. however the basis is still the same I believe. We own a legal CD which Microsoft allows you to 'rip' to the 360 - allowing for a perfect reproduction of a full CD OR individual tracks.. provided the CD is legally owned. Do Microsoft check if you are using an original CD before letting you do this - no. Exactly the same apart from - a person that cannot duplicate a media item themselves, can ask us to do it for them. There is software on the market I believe, that allows you to legally backup DVD's as well... I think it is AnyDVD - but the fact remains, this product could not exist without the fact, that we are legally allowed to make backups as long as we own the original product, purchased.. and that the use of it DOES NOT aid piracy or is illegally used.