Hi Mrs F In the witness statement from Mark White paragraph 25 is the bit about the reviews that Swift make of the "Credit Control Function" & the statement that the costs of running that department is in parity with the income from the charges. This is the very point I lost my case on, because the judge had to believe that statement from Mark White as he was under oath. But if I had of had an application for a CPR Part 18 request already submitted then the judge would of made it an order an I would of won. Make sure you've got that in & make sure you tell swift that you know I lost because I didn't. Barry

Hi Zoot, Yes I do already have a list of charges for 3 of my current claims but I included this request for them again so that when in court they cannot pull something out of the hat & then say that the details are privildged information. I was just trying to cover all the bases. In my 4th current claim they refused to give me any charges information. So I went with an estimate based on some statements I had. I take on-board what you say about asking for info on how they reached a genuine pre-estimate & I'll include this for future requests. As for these 4 current requests, I think I'll wait & see what they respond with, I did ask in point 3 for a full explanation for their costs. Thanks for your assistance. Barry

Hi paulpb123, No none of my claims are for ERC's. Yet! Barry

Hi ANNALH, From my experience I would do a formal Part 18 request & then an application for an order when they don't comply. The Judge in my case acknowledged that I had asked for a disclosure order in my Allocation Questionaire. But still he would only have issued one if I had of made an official application. Hope this helps. Barry

Yes Glenn I was but all sorted now. Thanks Barry

Hi gizmo, I sent this letter & request to the Defendants of the 4 claims I still have ongoing. Thanks Barry

Hi all, following my own advice & learning the lesson. I've now sent my requests under CPR Part 18 for my remaining claims. For those who are interested I have sent the following letter to accompany the official request as stated below. Feel free to copy my versions remembering to change the red text for your own details. __________________________________________________________________________________ My Name My Address My Town My County My Postcode Legal Department Took My Money Bank Bank Address Bank Town Bank Postcode 1st February 2007 REQUEST MADE UNDER CIVIL PROCEDURE RULES PART 18 Ref. Claim No ******** Dear Sir, Please find enclosed a request made under CPR Part 18 for further information. I believe the 14 days for a compliance period specified is sufficient under law. However, if you fail to respond, or fail to provide the requested information, within the 14 days. I will then make an application to the court requesting an order be made under Part 18 and stating that you have failed to comply with my request. I look forward to your reply. Yours faithfully, Me _________________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________________ In the Liverpool Civil & Family Court Claim number: ******** Between xxxxxxxxxxxx - Claimant and Took My Money Bank – Defendant REQUEST FOR FURTHER INFORMATION MADE UNDER CPR PART 18 Note - IMPORTANT 1. This request is served pursuit to CPR Part 18 The Request On Thursday 1st February 2007 The Claimant requests that the Defendant deliver to the Claimant a full and detailed list of all charges applied to the Claimant’s account in relation to the Claimants contractual breaches, whilst the account was open. Including full explanations for the charges. The Claimant requests that the Defendant deliver to the Claimant a full and detailed list of all manual intervention by any member of the Defendant’s staff, or any other person and any other evidence of that manual intervention. The Claimant requests that the Defendant deliver to the Claimant a full and detailed breakdown of the Defendant’s actual costs incurred by the contractual breaches of the Claimant. Including full explanations for the costs. The Claimant requires the requested information to be delivered to the Claimant within 14 days from the date of this request. ____________________________________________________________________________________ I hope this helps those who might need it.

Hi all, As I've just said on my thread I'm not giving up because my defeat has taught me where I went wrong & I won't make the same mistake twice. For my full response to comments on this thread & my own please follow the link to my thread below & go to comment 37 Barry v Swift (Court date 29/01/07) Barry

Hi all, Thanks again for all the support. As far as an appeal goes I'm still looking at my options. Please don't let my setback put anyone off starting or finishing their claim process against the banks. I have already had 3 successess so far & I have another 4 claims with court dates. As I said before the lesson to learn is to make sure you send a CPR Part 18 Request to the bank asking them to show their actual costs & when they refuse follow that up with a application to the court for an order demanding they do so. Stating they have refused you Part 18 request & the information you requested is vital to your claim. Then as the judge in my case said, even if that application had not been actioned at the time it was made. He would have ordered it then & I would not have lost. I'm sure the banks are reading this thread & others like it & think they have us running scared. But don't be scared we are in the right & although we may lose the odd battle here & there we will win the war. After my defeat, I am not scared. If anything I am more confident of my position, as I know I had Swift squirming in the court that day & they know that had I known the law better, I would of won. Full details of CPR Part 18 can be found by following the link that follows CPR - Parts and Practice Directions Good Luck & don't stop now. Barry

Hi Zoot The judge did not mention the word appeal at all. Barry

Hi paulpb123, I'm still waiting on advice regarding an appeal, but will keep everyone informed. Thanks for the support. Barry

Thanks for your support Gramec, Martin3030 & rooster ellielou the application for a disclosure order is where you ask the court to make an order forcing the bank to had over the information about their actual costs. But maybe one of the mods would like to pick this up in more detail? tallchap I did not claim the ERC this claim was for the other charges in order to keep it below 5k. I started my ERC claim a few weeks ago & the court papers are due to go in today. Thanks again for the support. Barry

BAD NEWS - I LOST MY CASE (although I would say on a technicality) I finally got to court with this case yesterday. Just me on my own & Swift landed in mob handed (6 in total - Barrister, Solicitor, 1 witness, 1 Swift boss & 2 unknowns) We had a half hour session before lunch when it was agreed that the law was not in doubt, so no need to argue whichs laws applied or which were suggested to be broken. My statement of evidence which had been previously supplied was agreed as being submitted & accepted as my arguement. The defendant's barrister then began questioning my in the witness box over a number of points mainly on me being aware of the terms of the contract at the time of signing it. Then we broke for lunch. When we commenced again the barrister continued mainly about me knowing what I had gotten into. To which I totally accepted & agreed that they were intitled to charge me for my breaches but my only arguement was that the charges applied were inflated for profit etc, etc. Then the barrister called their witness & they proceeded to lay out their defence consisting of but not limited to 1. Other lenders charge the same. 2. The banks charge them 3. There's a lot of manual intervention. 4. They loose money on accounts with poor payment records. Then I got my chance & if I do say so myself I think I gave an excellent performance. I believe I shot down everyone of their arguements. I had the witness backtracking on what he had said, having to retract parts of what he had said. I Had him having to admit that some previous statements he had made in the witness box where infact untrue & I proved that the large amount of manual intervention claimed by the defence didn't amount to much after all. Then the big one, the defence claimed that the missed or late payments on accounts cost them money, they lost money on those accounts & it ate into their profit margin made from the interest rate. So when I asked the witness what their true costs were in relation to the charges applied to my account. The defence claimed they did not know their exact costs. However in the witness's own written statement submitted to the court it stated that Swift carried out regular reviews of the Credit Control Department & had done so in spring 2004 whereby it "showed that there was parity between the income received & expenses incurred from the credit control function." Totally contridicting the witness's previous statements. When pressed to produce a copy of that review. The witness refused claiming it was commercially priviledged information. I asked the judge could the witness be forced to produce the review. The judge said yes if I issue an order to do so. After some more picking apart of the defence I summarised by saying that the arguement came down to the defence's claim that the credit control department only broke even from the charges. My claim that the credit control department was making a profit from the charges and the only way settle this, was for the defence to produce the review report, which they were refusing to do. So I was asking the Judge to make an order forcing them to do so. Then came the bombshell. To cut a long story short. In the judges summary he said that even though the defence was refusing to had over a copy of the charges review, he had to accept that the credit control department was not making a profit because the witness for the defence said so. However, if I (the claimant) had of previously submitted an offical application for a disclosure order, and not just asked for one on the Allocation Questionaire. Then even if it had not been previously actioned, he would have issued it there and then. But unfortunately the time had passed to submit such an application so therefore he was left to strike out my claim. He then ordered me to pay £500 in costs to the defendant. The lesson to all of us is to have "an official application for a disclosure order" submitted with our claims. Had I have had an application submitted the judge would have issued it & you & I both know that the defence would not have produced the information, thus conceeding & I would have won. Barry

No it's in the Southend county court. Was the barrister the harsh one?

I think I'm all ready. Got my mountain of paperwork all ready. Don't have anyone going with me though. I certainly let everyone know how I get on through this thread. I see from your thread that Mark White is their witness. Was he there? Was Mathew Payne the solicitor for them?