Help !! Is it possible to send a SAR to EDF ? Would this be the way to get round the data protection excuse ? Or can you only use SAR to credit card companies/banks ? EDF have estimated start and end readings and are trying to hold current occupier liable for the whole period. Surely one must be able to force EDF's hand in showing if they even attempted to read a meter ? Would the SAR work ? Please someone reply

Oh, ok. Thanks for that simplification . I have no intention of initiating proceedings. I have posted the letter above contesting their argument and attempt to close my complaint ; now I wait to see how they reply.... I do wonder if they have sent such a letter to others though. So far no-one else on here has said they have received the same letter...

I'm not quite sure what you mean here dd ? In simple language: do you mean 160,000 do not have a case against egg terminating their account early when not in default ? Just because egg felt like it they can terminate ? And then because one continues to make payments one is silently accepting the way egg terminated ? And this is how it would stand look to a judge in court ? I'm not sure I really understand what point you are making. Please explain. Thanks

Sorry for my late reply. I do tend to agree with Toymaker on this. I don't think that letter above is giving Egg the chance to have another go at terminating in a different way. Obviously they cant do that again as they have terminated twice already !! Thrice would be stupid.... I have drafted the following along the lines of Toymakers advice. Is there anything else that one would add ? Thank you for your letter dated xx. With regard to your statement that Egg is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and more recently "to the Banking Code", I reply as follows. Egg's legal department will be aware that Egg's credit card facility is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and is not regulated at all by the Banking Code, which - as Egg's legal department will be fully aware - does not regulate anything and is purely a voluntary code of conduct for banking institutions. With regard to your reference to term 20.2 of the Egg Credit Card terms and conditions, “We can end this Agreement at any time”. This is precisely the central issue of my complaint. I have requested Egg to indicate to me the relevant section of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 which provides Egg with legal entitlement to terminate my Egg Credit Card Agreement. I.e. I am asking Egg to indicate to me the legal source which provides Egg with entitlement to have a term such as 20.2, which purports to give Egg the right to terminate my Egg Agreement at any time. As you will be aware, Egg has so far failed to provide a response to my request. I consider that my request for that information is reasonable, is directly relevant to Egg's termination of my Egg agreement, and is very simple for Egg to comply with. For example, if there is a section in the Act which provides Egg with the right to terminate my Egg Agreement, it should be a very simple matter for Egg to point it out to me, and the dispute would be resolved. I am still awaiting a response to my request for the information to which I have referred, and which was made in my letter, dated xx In light of the foregoing, the dispute between Egg and me is, unfortunately, by no means closed.

Out of curiousity - when was your card taken out with mbna ? Did you request and get all info from mbna ? And check your Default Notice from mbna and the dates when it was sold to the dca.. I have my own situation where mbna sold the debt onto a dca before the date they had told me to pay arrears by, which they are not allowed to do... All these details will help your case

Hi Toymaker, Post 989 again: I just got a letter from Egg . I will copy it below but in essence they say they have investigated, they were perfectly within their rights to terminate my agreement and my complaint is now closed.... Hmmm. From reading others earlier remarks here, I seem to think that they are still full of hot air and not much else. Please read the below as I am not sure how I argue back to them now... has anyone had the same letter ??? "I am writing further to our recent contact regarding your complaint to inform you that we have completed our investigation. Once again, please accept our apologies for any inconvenience caused. What follows is a summary of our investigation and decision. Our understanding of your complaint - you are unhappy that your Egg Credit Card Agreement has been terminated, and feel that this decision is unfair. - you would also like to know where, in the CCA 74, does it legally entitle Egg to terminate your Egg Card Agreement Our findings from the investigation - We are regulated by the CCA74 and more recently to the Banking Code 2008 which states: 6.1 When you apply to become a customer or accept a product for the first time, we will give you any relevant terms and conditions for the product you have asked us to provide. 6.2. All written t&cs will be fair and will set out your rights and responsibilities clearly and in plain language. We will only use legal or technical language if necessary In xx 2003 you agreed to abide by our t&cs which state: 18. Limiting use of the Account We may, without warning, and without ending this Agreement: - refuse to authorise a Transaction - cancel or suspend the right to use the Account; or - refuse or replace a card. But we will only do this with good reason, for example, if you are in breach of this Agreement, to prevent such a breach, for fraud prevention purposes or for legal or regulatory reasons. And 20.2 We can end this Agreement at any time. We will normally give you 30 days advance notice by post or email. However, if there are exceptional circumstances, or in any circumstances referred to in Condition 192 we may end this Agreement immediately and tell you about it afterwards, unless we are required by law to give you notice first. You can end it at any time by telling us to do so by post, phone or secure message. Our Decision - On this occasion, we are sorry that we are unable to uphold your complaint as our investigation showed that Egg is perfectly within its rights to end your credit agreement. As a result of the decision reached, your complaint has now been closed. If you want to discuss any aspect of your complaint or provide further relevant information, please contact us using the details provided. You have 6 months from the date of this letter to exercise your right to refer your complaint to the fos. If the fos notifies us of their intention to arbitrate on your behalf, we will no longer be able to discuss your complaint directly with you. Signed by a lovely Customer Relations Adviser Does anyone have a copy of t&cs dating from mid 2003 that they can post up here ? What is the general opinion to this letter ? All the best,

Thank you. I will copy and paste, tweek and refer back later. Speak soon....

Yes. I will drop it and move on.... Thanks all... Ps - Toymaker did you see the letter Egg just sent me ? (its on your thread)

Hmmm. I am not sure what is my next step. This letter from Egg seems to be a new approach, compared to other letters received. Do you think I should now request a CCA and send my £1 po ? Just to see what documents they come back with ? The only issue I have is that Toymaker seems to think that the best course of action is to get them to explain how they legally terminated my account which was not in default. They can't explain. But the letter they have sent me seems to imply that they think they could terminate my account. Does anyone have a good idea on how to reply to Egg now ???

So then sending this letter is pointless ?? But if I refer to your other post above, if they did try to reinstate the case down the line (even in years to come), I could point out to the court their failure to disclose docs, that they discontinued without my permission and that I now wish to have it struck out....?? Thanks for the input.

Egg terminated the agreement; then asked me to continue the monthly payments, defaulted a year later as I had stopped paying, they asked me to pay the monthly arrears by a certain date and that after that date they wanted the whole balance cleared, they also threatened to terminate the agreement they had already terminated a year earlier.... Egg referred me to many dcas and solicitors. Then I found this site and have since been following toymakers advice - about their illegal termination of my account. All good sound advice since July 09 - But now this letter above has thrown me as no-one else seems to have received it....

DD - any sound advice on the letter Egg sent me ?

Thanks Slick132, Here we go: "I am writing in response to your letter, dated xx/09, the contents of which I have noted. I wrote to you on xx/05/09 with my complaints. It took 6 months for you to reply to me, despite monthly requests to the Woolwich colleagues who processed my mortgage payments. I understand the guideline for a written response to a complaint is 14 days. Whilst you claim that the £100 solicitor’s referral charge is fully justified, I maintain that it is not justified. I also stress that none of the excess charges - incurred subsequently by your failure to reply to my letter within a respectable time frame - are justified either. The statement that you provided with your letter fails to show a true and positive representation of the payments made to both clear my arrears and keep up with the mortgage payments. The statement provided conveniently starts start April 09. This fails to show that I paid £xx000's in a 3-month period - between xx/12/08 and xx/03/09. These lump sum payments quite clearly showed that there was no need for legal intervention in my account. Your letter also fails to take into account the regular conversations that I had with your Woolwich colleagues where I fully advised them of an imminent rental income due by mid May which would clear any arrears in full. I understand that I could send in a SAR, if needed, which would show all such conversations. The reality is that between xx/03/09 and xx/05/09 – a 7 week period only - I made payments totalling almost £xx,000. The Woolwich was fully aware that I would clear the arrears by May 09, from rental income, and that there was absolutely no need for solicitors intervention or any associated charges. I reiterate that The Woolwich should refund all charges and costs attributed to my account unnecessarily since April 2009. Yours, How does that sound? Anything else (legal jargon/customer care duty etc) that I should add ? With lots of thanks in advance....

Hello again. A few weeks later and I am wondering if I should send the letter below to try and get absolute closure on this case. Or does someone think I am opening the can of worms again!! Final advice please... Dear Sirs, The Claimant advised by letter, dated xx/09, that they have decided not to proceed with the claim against me. They also confirmed, in the same letter, that they will take no further action in respect of the alleged outstanding balance in this claim. I respectfully now ask that the above Case # x be struck out. On xx/09 I had sent CPR 18 and CPR31.14 requests to the Claimant. They had a legal obligation to disclose the information requested within the statutory period of 14 days. The Claimant failed to comply, instead advising that they were not proceeding with the claim against me. On this basis I would like to ask that the Claim be stuck out, rather than just filed. I look forward to your reply to bring this matter to close.

Can someone help. EDF sent an estimated bill backdated to 2004 - estimated start and end readings. A letter was written, by a manager, to them asking for all the info they hold on the property - names of occupants, and all actual readings for the period. EDF replied that due to data protection act they could not divulge that info. Another letter was written, again asking them to advise all the information they held on the property and the account was to be held in dispute until they replied. Again EDF replied that due to data protection act they could not provide any info regarding who consumed how much electricity at the property. Quite clearly they have no names of who has been living at the property in the last 5-6 years. They seemingly do not have the name of the property owner or any tenants during this period. Nor do they know how much electricity has been consumed from start to finish as readings are only estimated. It appears stalemate. So what letter should now be written to EDF to ascertain correct consumption ? And would the owner be held liable for the whole period ? Especially if the owner has no details of occupants in the period. Help is much appreciated.

hefty - I guess that someone is you ! Can you post up a copy of the t&cs as I can not imagine that they would be any different from those given to me in the same year. Cynic - ha ha. They go out of their way to be apologetic thinking that will endear me to them and mask their failure to answer the real issues! So anyone else any idea on how to deal with this ? Toymaker - Have you had such a letter sent to you ? Or is this just me ?

hello again I just got a letter from Egg . I will copy it below but in essence they say they have investigated, they were perfectly within their rights to terminate my agreement and my complaint is now closed.... Hmmm. From reading others earlier remarks here, I seem to think that they are still full of hot air and not much else. Please read the below as I am not sure how I argue back to them now... has anyone had the same letter ??? "I am writing further to our recent contact regarding your complaint to inform you that we have completed our investigation. Once again, please accept our apologies for any inconvenience caused. What follows is a summary of our investigation and decision. Our understanding of your complaint - you are unhappy that your Egg Credit Card Agreement has been terminated, and feel that this decision is unfair. - you would also like to know where, in the CCA 74, does it legally entitle Egg to terminate your Egg Card Agreement Our findings from the investigation - We are regulated by the CCA74 and more recently to the Banking Code 2008 which states: 6.1 When you apply to become a customer or accept a product for the first time, we will give you any relevant terms and conditions for the product you have asked us to provide. 6.2. All written t&cs will be fair and will set out your rights and responsibilities clearly and in plain language. We will only use legal or technical language if necessary In xx 2003 you agreed to abide by our t&cs which state: 18. Limiting use of the Account We may, without warning, and without ending this Agreement: - refuse to authorise a Transaction - cancel or suspend the right to use the Account; or - refuse or replace a card. But we will only do this with good reason, for example, if you are in breach of this Agreement, to prevent such a breach, for fraud prevention purposes or for legal or regulatory reasons. And 20.2 We can end this Agreement at any time. We will normally give you 30 days advance notice by post or email. However, if there are exceptional circumstances, or in any circumstances referred to in Condition 192 we may end this Agreement immediately and tell you about it afterwards, unless we are required by law to give you notice first. You can end it at any time by telling us to do so by post, phone or secure message. Our Decision - On this occasion, we are sorry that we are unable to uphold your complaint as our investigation showed that Egg is perfectly within its rights to end your credit agreement. As a result of the decision reached, your complaint has now been closed. If you want to discuss any aspect of your complaint or provide further relevant information, please contact us using the details provided. You have 6 months from the date of this letter to exercise your right to refer your complaint to the FOS. If the FOS notifies us of their intention to arbitrate on your behalf, we will no longer be able to discuss your complaint directly with you. Signed by a lovely Customer Relations Adviser Does anyone have a copy of t&cs dating from mid 2003 that they can post up here ? What is the general opinion to this letter ? All the best,

I'm not an expert, but I would sit and prioritise your debts. The ones you can not get out of paying and those that can wait. Write to the ones who can wait, saying you have some priority debts and they have to put a stop on your acounts for 3-6m. Then write to those which are priorities with a plan. Obviously you need to get some money in which does not seem like it is going to come via your business. So look at other ways to bring in an income fast. Like selling non-essential items to raise the funds to clear the priority debts fast. If you have a spare room then rent it out - if it is in a good city location, rent it by the night, rather than by the month, and you will get more money faster. If not in a city, then still rent a room for a few months. Or even your room, and you sleep on the couch or with a friend for free. Anything to get some £s in fast. Or give up your rental and take a gamble on getting a bigger house and then sublet rooms in it, if possible, for more £s.. You say you don't own a house or have assets - but you still need a roof over your head and don't let anyone strip you down any further. I would let the fear drive you to survive and fight, not collapse.... Good night

Tenant should just check his TA and post up here if there is an opt out clause, then others can advise correctly...rather than speculating on his behalf.

Snorkerz, I think it is best for the tenant to play fair with the landlord. An email / text can be sent to give 24hr notice, but if the landlord wants to sell, and there is an opt out clause in the TA, then they will sell and the tenant will have to find other accom anyway. Sometimes people think that to go to war immediately is the best way forward, but maybe it is less stressful on everyone if the nice appoach is taken....

You should read your tenancy agreement. It will be in that in black and white. Generally it is classed as reasonable notice is needed. Put yourself in Landlords shoes though - if he wants/needs to sell then he is going to try to show the house to as many people as poss in the hope he gets someone interested in putting in an offer.... I would use this info and start to look around for somewhere else to live anyway. But try to discuss everything nicely / friendly with the landlord and you will prob find he will go out his way to keep you informed with viewings and offers....

Thanks NL. That answers my question, I guess. But I do wonder how a meter reader can say they have read a meter, when they clearly have not. The meter is not locked away, as such. It is in a basement area. The gate to the basement area is padlocked for security. Had burglars once, do not want them again !

Hello Does anyone know anything about digital meter reading ? I just received a first gas bill from BG, which has an alleged actual reading of last week. The area to where the meter is positioned is chained and padlocked and impossible to be accessed. The only way to gain access is by the occupants of the property unlocking the padlock. Which so did not happen. So my question is: how can Accuread allege to have done an "actual" reading ? I have read up a bit today on this issue. Apparently there are now digital readers which will allow utility companies to drive by and take the readings from meters without ever having to gain access to properties. Now, the property meter has a bar code and is a metric meter but it is 10 years old. Can Accuread now walk past / drive past and direct a digital reader at the meter and take an accurate reading ? Or do the meters have to be new models with a device fitted to allow this to happen ? And can Accuread just lie about the "actual" reading ? The "actual" reading given by Accuread is incorrect. Which is why I wish to get advice before I write a snotty letter of complaint.

I have similar situation. Capquest have constantly rung me, alleging they are handling a debt with Halifax Loans, they have also passed my details on to HL Legal (solicitors) and now my parents somehow have been located and are being called by Telogram Ltd asking for them to confirm my details !! I have not lived at my parents for aeons !! And I have absolutely no idea how they got their telephone #. Other than pot luck from ancient records and same surname registered at their address (not mine; my fathers). I told my mother to refuse to speak to them. Cheek of it.

Thank you S132, I will draft a letter this morning and post up here later for approval/2nd thoughts. Sorry for being impatient . I had actually posted the same thread elsewhere and had no response and thought by moving it to Barclays I would get a quicker response !! But no worry. I would just like to get a letter off to them before end of the week/month...and before another £40 charge appears...