Well, it seems that M&S have got themselves well and truly confused over the last few weeks. I have had, in various order, letters stating that:- they've sent everything they've got they're investigating my complaint my account is in arrears they're investigating my complaint AND - the final two, both received on the same day: If I want a copy of my CCA, I must send them £1 and a default notice Have pointed out to them that they had my £1 back in June and that the same person who's now saying they need me to send £1 has been in correspondence with me since July about the useless information they've sent. Also, their default notice said they wouldn't contact me again after 2nd November but, guess what, I'm still getting phone calls!! Not that I'm answering them. And I thought they might actually stop phoning and take whatever action comes next at this point Reckon I've confused them so much with what was, originally, a very simple request for information that they simply don't know now what they need to do next.

Don't know how much help this'll be or even if it's going to stop the calls I was getting permanently, but anything's worth a try. I got a letter off them (about 4 months after I wrote to them telling them to communicate only in writing) stating that they would like to do this, but that I:- don't answer letters had never answered any of their calls, leading to repeat calls and that this did not constitute harassment was ignoring them I wrote back immediately stating that:- I do answer their letters (as could be proved by them reading this one) I did answer their calls a number of times (and have proof from the SAR they sent me that they have noted this, but that I wouldn't answer security. I had stopped answering their calls due to their dreadful lack of understanding of the Data Protection Act and their insistence that I answer their security, which would be in breach of the Data Protection Act because they need to prove their identity to me. That an average of 25 phone calls a day is, indeed, harassment as it prevents me from using my phone line that I pay for, for my purposes. I've not had any more phone calls since they signed for this letter. It is early days (only about 2 weeks) but must be the longest I've gone without a call from them in about 3 months.

Right, a fair bit happened since I last posted. Went back to BC and explained that I was still missing a lot of info including the original agreement. Got a reply stating that they had fulfilled their obligations under S78 and demanding payment in full of the account. Wrote back to them to say that it was no longer an S78 request and that they were in breach of the Data Protection Act by withholding my data. They promptly passed the account to Mercers. Mercers started phoning multiple times a day. Started off by refusing the calls, then went to answering the odd one at random and insisting on taking them through ID (amusing when the phone numbers they give you as theirs never match the one they're calling from). Sent Mercers the standard letters - CCA, account in dispute, and revoking the right for them to call at the house. Mercers have had the account for all of 2 weeks now and, today, I've got a card from them stating their intention to call at the house. Am sending the 3 letters again, with a note stating that as the person who opened the original set clearly can't read, I'm forwarding copies. However, although the day and times they've said they'll call there will definitely be no-one home (day-time, mid week - what do they really expect), I'm actually really angry at this as they've already been told that if they want to finish this, they'll have to take it to court. I'm not in the least intimidated by these idiots - they simply won't be coming in to the house (if they do turn up) and I'll have the police remove them from the property. However, I have a question. We're away for a large part of December. But we'll have a housesitter in. Can I actually prevent them from harassing the housesitter or do I just tell the guy to call the police if these people show up?

This is where it gets tricky. Guidelines state that they should be able to resolve within 8 weeks. However, many companies that cannot resolve within this time will send a further holding letter stating that they need longer. The Ombudsman guidelines are that you should wait until you have a response from the company and are at a deadlock before you contact them. However, if you think they are simply stalling for time and aren't going to reply, you could complain to the Ombudsman explaining that you've already waited over 8 weeks for a reply and that you don't think that there is any hope of a reply appearing any time soon given that it should have been a straightforward complaint to resolve. If the Ombudsman accepts the complaint on this basis, then they will contact MBNA themselves asking for their side of the story. This may at least mean that MBNA are forced to provide a reply. If you can wait until the 22nd, and you think they will actually answer then, it might be quicker to wait until then as I would think it would take the Ombudsman longer than this to get this underway. In the meantime, you might want to send them a letter stating that the complaint should have been easy to resolve; that you will wait until the 22nd but that if they then try to extend the time again, you will go direct to the Ombudsman as it appears that they are just stalling in providing a response.

Thanks for the info. I know what to look for now. I do, indeed, enjoy forcing them to reply again after they've said they've sent their final response. Well, if they're going to keep annoying me with phone calls and letters, then I want to be just as difficult right back. To be honest, I can wait them out quite easily - they and their pet DCA's are an irritation, but I don't find them particularly worrying. Certainly not irritating enough for me to spend money on taking them to court! My mobile phone book now has some very interesting names in it, so I know exactly when they're calling me to ignore them completely if I can't be bothered winding them up. The thing that's really making me laugh with these guys is that they could've avoided all of this. When they wanted to switch everyone onto their credit card, they asked me to switch. I didn't want another credit card at the time, so refused. They asked me every month after that to think about switching so eventually earlier this year, I filled in the credit card app asking for it to be a transfer from the old store card. Now, I'm quite sure that this would have ended up an enforceable agreement. A couple of weeks later, they wrote to me stating that I couldn't have one of their credit cards because they didn't want to extend me any more credit at that time (I didn't want any more credit, I just wanted the slightly better interest rate on the credit card). Two weeks after that, they increased the limit on my store card by another £650! So, the lack of consistency really wound me up. What they seemed to really be saying was I could have more credit, but what I couldn't have was the better terms from the credit card As a result, although I've also now taken on my other card providers, M&S finished up first in the firing line simply because I thought what they were doing was rather unfair business practice given that I'd always paid them (the late payments were years and years ago and were always made, just sometimes a week late - and I'd had a number of limit raises since then) and had been a good customer for about 10 years. And now it's looking more and more likely that they've shot themselves in the foot on this one as at the very least they're going to have to refund every single charge that's been applied to the account - with interest!

So, the SAR information turned up today (some of it at least - there's still bits missing). What they're calling the agreement is exactly what I've seen posted elsewhere - the signature form and some T&Cs. If I recall correctly, someone won a case against them recently based on this signature form being used by them as the agreement? So this one's looking a little better for me at this stage. In addition, my husband has had a secondary card on this account since day one - had forgotten I took this one out after I met him but before we got married. The signature form they've supplied has only my signature on it and there's no additional form with his signature - yet they accepted his signature on transactions, apparently without holding a copy on their records. Now I would have thought that this must put them in breach of something. And the information they've sent me states that I didn't want PPI, but it's been charged - and quite a large amount at that. One of the documents that's missing is from a letter I sent them about a year ago. There were a few successive months where my statement kept arriving on the payment due date, so they charged me a late payment fee every single month. I wrote to them about it, and I got a letter back stating that there was nothing they could do about it and I'd have to pay by direct debit if their statement production was causing late payment. Personally, I think this should be an important document because they've pretty much said that although they acknowledge there's a problem, they're not prepared to do anything about it. They also refused to refund any of the charges, although that's about to change now whether they like it or not!

Legally under regulatory guidelines, they're allowed 4 weeks to respond to a complaint, with an extension for a further 4 weeks provided they let you know before the first 4 weeks expires. Sounds like they're going to take the maximum allowable time, but they are allowed to do this. Frustrating, I know, but sometimes investigations do take longer than expected hence the guidelines. We all know that they shouldn't need this long to sort out charges and PPI, but I reckon they'll take as long as they can. However, if you've claimed interest on the charges and PPI, the longer they take the more they'll have to pay.

Well they can claim what they want really. When they do finally take it to court - I can see already that this is where it's going as we're now at complete deadlock, I will produce the documents they sent me to prove that they are illegible. And then I'll get to see what they actually hold. Still waiting for my SAR request to be fulfilled too - they've only another few days on that as I know there'll be charges etc going back over a few years as I had this account when hubby was out of work for a bit and did incur quite a few charges at their old higher rate, and the balance isn't that big on this one anyway so charges + interest will bring it right down even if they have got a better copy of the agreement (and assuming it's enforceable).

Well, yes I agree with you there. The FOS don't appear to have been of much help to others on here and, although these companies seem to be keen on us all using the FOS to complain, I hadn't thought it was really within their remit - it's not technically a mis-sale or poor financial advice and is really a legal issue. But I did find it amusing that they couldn't even manage to enclose the leaflet! I will definitely be sending the OFT letter though - thanks for the template link. And I'm going back to M&S anyway to explain that I don't accept their 'belief' that the document is enough because legal fact states that it must be legible. I'm planning to tell them to either send me something legible if they've got it or to go ahead and take it through court if they think they can succeed. Maybe I'm pushing their hand a bit early, but I'm a bit bored with their template letters and having to think of a way of explaining to them using words of only one syllable that they might understand:roll: - a bit difficult when the most important word is agreement. Then I'll sit back and refuse to answer any more correspondence unless they actually come up with anything of any value.

Well, they've said that if I want to take it further, I need to contact the FOS so I guess it is their final response. They also said they'd included an FOS leaflet, but didn't. Fortunately, I already know how to make a complaint to the FOS. Am going to go back to them one more time anyway explaining, again, why an illegible copy isn't good enough. I mean, seriously, if I've had to assume what the APR says because that's how it calculates, then it's just not legible enough as I can't really be sure that I'm matching back to the APR that was listed. And that was one of the more legible areas of the T&C document. Am also going to tell them that I'll be adding a note to my own credit files explaining exactly why they shouldn't be adding anything themselves and why the payments haven't been made. I was going to wait to do this in case I didn't need to in the end, but reckon I might as well just get it done while I'm in letter writing mode. I really don't expect to get a positive response, but when I don't, I'll just sit back and wait for them to either offer me a F&F or try to take it through court. Don't see why I should have to pay fees to take them to court when I can just wait for them to proceed (unless anyone knows a reason why I should make the first move). Can someone confirm for me please what Act they're in breach of if they continue to process personal data when they shouldn't. Is it Data Protection or Consumer Credit or both?

Well, that's made me sit up and pay attention! Just added up the PPI I paid before I cancelled it early in 2007 and it's nearly £2K before I even start adding any interest. And there's another 3 1/2 years' worth on there if I can persuade them to part with some earlier statements. The interest calculation's going to be evil to tackle, but clearly will be worth it as this alone will wipe a huge chunk off the balance and I can then continue to argue over the agreement on the rest. Surprisingly few charges on the account - I must've been better behaved with my payment record than I thought. Maybe I've just remembered the few times I did get charged quite clearly. Still added them on though - might as well have everything back that I can.

One more quick question for now, please. The interest rates on the copy they've sent me are very difficult to read. However, the monthly rate is definitely listed as 1.93%. The annual looks like 23.7%, but I guess could conceivably be 25.7% - the copy really is that bad. I make 1.93% monthly as 25.78% APR, which should then be rounded to 25.8%. While I still think this is understated as I'm sure the real rate was more than this and am waiting for my copy statements to check this, if the rate is supposed to read 25.7% would that be OK, or would they have had to round it up as is mathematically correct?

Hi Not yet. Just back from holiday, so that's going to be my homework for the next couple of days. I know there's a few on there from times when they've changed the payment date so wanted 2 payments in a month etc

Hi Slick. You're right, that's exactly what they've done. Precisely 6 years of statements and nothing else! New letter on it's way out to them

Still nothing at all from MBNA except more phone calls and a threat of trashing my credit file if I don't pay up. Here we go with the next round of letters. Should I now use the one that states that as they've still not complied, I'll give them another 21 days to produce the document and assume the account to be closed if nothing is forthcoming?